Why do you think corals are so expensive?

[VintageReefer]

I have money, but I still can’t fathom spending that much on a coral, especially with no guarantee or high probability of survival. I mean you could compare it to people who spend $1,000-$3,000 on a dog, but at least a dog can be thoroughly inspected by a vet for issues that may affect lifespan. Could they die from an accident or unforeseen issue? Sure, but it’s arguably worse odds for coral survival, or at least inability to react to issues and they progress quickly. Other hobbies have people buying expensive things that people spend, just not as perishable and fragile.

Maybe you’ve got the process locked down and your not just confident but certain of your tanks stability and acclimation process.

I think the most I could spend on 1 coral would be $200-$250, and it would be the only one I’d spend that much on, maybe annually or bi-annual. It would have to be chunky, tank grown and basically a colony. I’d have to have confidence in its likelihood of growing and me fragging it to recoup the original buy. $300+..$1,000+.. is nuts to me. I would spend a lot on a fish though, maybe.. like a black tang.. one day.. so maybe I’m biased and it’s perspective.

To each their own though, your tank looks great and it makes you happy. Life is short and you can’t take the money with you win you go. (Just don’t imply that mentality too many times and run out). I just hate to see people buying things they can’t afford as a risky investment to resell, it die, and send them further in a hole.

Just to be clear

1) yes I am confident in my tanks stability and ability to house these corals, and my processes.

2) I did not, have not, and will not spend 1000$ on a coral.

My banana holy grail was an exception I made and the most I spent on a coral and it was 340 + sh

I have 3 corals that were 250 - 260 shipped. I would say my cut off is 250 and it better be special

Most of my corals were 100 or less. A few were in the 100-200 range

 

[Uncle99]

Just to be clear

1) yes I am confident in my tanks stability and ability to house these corals, and my processes.

2) I did not, have not, and will not spend 1000$ on a coral.

My banana holy grail was an exception I made and the most I spent on a coral and was 340 + sh

I have 3 corals that were 250 - 260 shipped. I would say my cut off is 250 and it better be special

Most of my corals were 100 or less. A few were in the 100-200 range

A stunning example!

 

[VintageReefer]

Also I never buy coral with the intent to frag and sell at a later time

I am confident in many things but I am not a fragger, I don’t have the tools and I have almost zero experience.

I’m nervous because I have a teal hammer colony, it started as 2 heads for 75$ and now a year later it’s almost 30 heads. I really don’t know what I’m going to do a few months from now but it should be an easy process to cut some branches

I have a lakers scroll coral on the bottom left, it’s never “scrolled” and instead continues to grow as a flat plate. It was 1” when I got it 2.5 years ago and now is 8” in diameter. I don’t know what I’m going to do here either.

Fragging these corals makes me nervous just thinking about it.

I have a 48x20x20 tank I need to setup. I honestly am thinking of making it a grow out tank for smaller corals to grow until large enough to go in the main display, and doubling as a home for corals getting too big that I’m hesitant to frag

 

[Kodock]

Well I would say cars was the easy one, do you wanna buy your clothes at Walmart or Zara? Do you want an off brand purse or a Louis? High and low end transfers to any industry. Businesses are meant to profit, if you don’t profit there is no reason to have one and if our local stores didn’t profit we wouldn’t have any.
Last I checked TSA, WWC, BSA arnt listed on the stock exchange so I can’t imagine they are profiting as much as Amazon which if you’re like me purchase from frequently without issue.

Now if we want to dig in to why some of these high end pieces cost so much let’s consider the following:

For frags of the high end pieces:

What is the volume of coral they have to purchase/import until these prime specimens are found.

Wholesalers require purchasers to take less desireable coral to receive the nicer pieces. How long does it take to move the less desireable coral?

What is the cost of housing the less desireable coral until it is sold? Rent/electricity/additives/dips/maintenance/labor (the tanks don’t clean themselves)/etc

How much of the volume ends up being a loss due to DOA or other means?

Once found, how long does it take to acclimate frag and culture? What are the incurred costs of this process? Rent/electricity/additives/dips/maintenance/labor/etc

For one-off non fraggable pieces there is maybe an argument a smaller margin could seem reasonable but how do you know the wholesale cost of this piece, how much shipping from indo/pacific cost and any duties or taxes charged to import these items?

Once again what’s the expected turn over and the housing costs?


I’ve only ever been hobbyist but I can clearly see that there are many reasons why corals can be expensive. There are also many corals that arnt because of the immense ease of their proliferation.

I don’t know a lot of saltwater stores carrying these high-high end corals, if any. So overhead isn’t really a factor for home sellers - things can be grown without expensive equipment. A hobbyist has their own overhead, but it would be arguably the same with or without that coral.

Your argument suggest that the price is ok because the buyer should incur the increased overhead of the seller. However, you’re under the impression that the seller isn’t surpassing that cost and using it as an excuse to gouge, pressing limits until it breaks, taking advantage of buyer’s delusional mindsets in today’s market.

This is like the argument of not raising minimum wage, because the prices will go up.. well prices always go up anyway, since business models are all better sales than last year. Inflation is actually corporations incurring their margins onto buyers. Recently, they have surpassed margins merely because they can, and figured out they’ve cornered markets and people will buy because they think they have to. Grow till explode.. that’s when we crash and it all starts over.. ted talk over..

Blah, blah, blah, honestly the real reason people “overpay” in this hobby… social validation and hype, but that’s all hobbies.. but ours is different because it’s not like the most expensive ones objectively look incredible and billy joe hobbyist down the street is charging the same price as an online vendor or LFS, standing firm on making as much profit as possible. Taking a loss before letting the price come down to drill it into the buyers head that this will always be the new standard.. record profits once engrained.

Prime example is the Holy Grail torch.. it’s barely different from the other green torches.. pretty plain, any lineage (I said what I said). It’s not expensive due to how hard it is to get in the wild anymore, since they’re being primarily sold by hobbyist, or from hobbyist to stores/vendors. It’s still expensive because someone set that bar once and it has to stick or those who overpaid are left holding the bag and sellers can’t make that nice fat profit.

 

[Kodock]

Just to be clear

1) yes I am confident in my tanks stability and ability to house these corals, and my processes.

2) I did not, have not, and will not spend 1000$ on a coral.

My banana holy grail was an exception I made and the most I spent on a coral and it was 340 + sh

I have 3 corals that were 250 - 260 shipped. I would say my cut off is 250 and it better be special

Most of my corals were 100 or less. A few were in the 100-200 range

I misread the $1000 and it being a trade plus cash/discount etc., but the point remains that someone somewhere is buying those $1000 corals, whether it’s because they can or under other precedents

 

[VintageReefer]

Prime example is the Holy Grail torch.. it’s barely different from the other green torches.. pretty plain, any lineage (I said what I said).

I understand the point your making but this stands out to me. My banana HG is not like other green torch’s only the inner mouth area is green. It’s bright yellow

Whites

 

[Kodock]

I understand the point your making but this stands out to me. My banana HG is not like other green torch’s only the inner mouth area is green. It’s bright yellow

Whites

That banana HG is awesome. I’ll take a frag lol I’ve never seen a torch with that type/much what looks like tissue underneath, pretty gnarly.
But the OG is just too green to me. They have some yellow and are a little different, but not enough contrast for $400-$1700.

My favorite variant/made up name I’ve seen is called “24k banana”. Pictures don’t do it justice. A guy I’ve got corals from has them. Had to take a pic of his tank. It’s got a gold blend into the mouth color and is just impeccable. Normally $150 a head.

I’ve seen about 5-6 regular OG lineage HG’s in person and just not impressed. When I say HG, just the primarily green ones.

24k banana, can see HG next to it.

 

[VintageReefer]

That banana HG is awesome. I’ll take a frag lol I’ve never seen a torch with that type/much what looks like tissue underneath, pretty gnarly.
But the OG is just too green to me. They have some yellow and are a little different, but not enough contrast for $400-$1700.

My favorite variant/made up name I’ve seen is called “24k banana”. Pictures don’t do it justice. A guy I’ve got corals from has them. Had to take a pic of his tank. It’s got a gold blend into the mouth color and is just impeccable. Normally $150 a head.

I’ve seen about 5-6 regular OG lineage HG’s in person and just not impressed. When I say HG, just the primarily green ones.

24k banana, can see HG next to it.

I get what you mean. I’ve seen hg for sale that are a green variant. I specifically told my vendor I am looking for yellow. Pure yellow. Not a lighting trick. Not green. Hard to put faith in someone you never met, across the country, but he worked with me and sent pics before I bought.

This is what arrived about a year ago

I am not a coral seller, I see tanks from coralKai on here completely filled with insane yellow torches. But, I am a yellow torch lover and have a few other variants I like

Dragon Tamer

Knicks

These two are different vendors but both were labeled as banana torch.

The banana HG trumps them all. There’s nothing like it, it stands out more than anything. It was my most expensive coral, and was a baby when I got it, but to me it’s worth every cent. After one year the growth has been absolutely noticeable and it’s currently splitting into 7 heads

 

[Kodock]

I get what you mean. I’ve seen hg for sale that are a green variant. I specifically told my vendor I am looking for yellow. Pure yellow. Not a lighting trick. Not green. Hard to put faith in someone you never met, across the country, but he worked with me and sent pics before I bought.

This is what arrived about a year ago

I am not a coral seller, I see tanks from coralKai on here completely filled with insane yellow torches. But, I am a yellow torch lover and have a few other variants I like

Tiger torch

Knicks

These two are different vendors but both were labeled as banana torch.

The banana HG trumps them all. There’s nothing like it, it stands out more than anything. It was my most expensive coral, and was a baby when I got it, but to me it’s worth every cent. After one year the growth has been absolutely noticeable and it’s currently splitting into 7 heads

I hear ya! Your tank is awesome!

That second banana in your second to last pic is the same as the one I like I believe. It’s awesome. I’ve got indo gold $50, jester $60, malaysian 24k $60, and cotton candy $50, regular green $20. 3 are splitting. I’m counting the 15” Chicago sunburst as a torch lol

I need want relocate the torches, but terrified it will tick them off..

 

[Dragen Fiend]

Torches and tentacle plates are the only corals I'll buy at max $150. I don't think I'll ever buy a HG torch due to price. Its nice but I'm not spending that on a single head.

I stick with small frags that I know I will grow out to an amazing colony one day.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

Torches and tentacle plates are the only corals I'll buy at max $150. I don't think I'll ever buy a HG torch due to price. Its nice but I'm not spending that on a single head.

I stick with small frags that I know I will grow out to an amazing colony one day.

totally with you on this

 

[Kfactor]

i miss the old days of the hobby when ppl would sell frags for 10 to 20 dollars . it seems even the hobby guys are just as bad for selling coral for high end prices .

 

[JNalley]

I’ve bought from aquariums wholesale over the years. The prices are great and the people are too. However I found 90% of their stuff is fresh out of the ocean mariculture. The stuff or miss.

Sure, but that's why it's so cheap...

 

[encrustingacro]

I’ve bought from aquariums wholesale over the years. The prices are great and the people are too. However I found 90% of their stuff is fresh out of the ocean mariculture. The stuff or miss.

Personally, I'm fine with maricultured corals, as long as they sell the whole colony and not chop it up into small frags.

 

[Solo McReefer]

i miss the old days of the hobby when ppl would sell frags for 10 to 20 dollars . it seems even the hobby guys are just as bad for selling coral for high end prices .

Brown corals were 10

Green corals were 20

I remember

 

[Kfactor]

Brown corals were 10

Green corals were 20

I remember

i dont know who you got your corals from lol

 

[Solo McReefer]

i dont know who you got your corals from lol

All the, "people should just sell their corals to me for less money", just sounds so commie propaganda to me. That's all.

You know that feeling when you park your car someplace, and as you open your door, you notice a big huge splatter of fresh vomit on the asphalt right where you were going to get out.

There is that first natural feeling of irrational disgust. Then you realize, "hey, somebody is really sick. Maybe I should help them"

Here is a cool little video from Reef Builders, about a kid that has his head screwed on straight


Then the realization sets in, "if they are that sick, there's really nothing you can do about it"

And by you, I mean me

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

My limit is $200 max for a coral, I try to get them on sale. My most expensive piece is a torch bought for $150 that has grown to multiple heads. Shipping is what is ridiculous in my opinion, often with delays. I would shop at LFS but aiptasia everywhere and don't want to introduce into my tank.

I've also set a rule to only buy aqua cultured going forward. Better value and survivability.

 

[encrustingacro]

All the, "people should just sell their corals to me for less money", just sounds so commie propaganda to me. That's all.

Please don't bring politics into my reefkeeping forum; this is one of the places I go to get away from all of that

 

[Solo McReefer]

It's not politics

It's a way of life

A lifestyle