Why do so many things die in my tank?

[taylormaximus]

I live in Canada and I use rodi. Everyone I know uses rodi. It’s all about water care and quality.

For your corals dying I blame your light, sorry but it’s not very strong.

I would add another powerhead and get more flow. Eliminate all dead spots. Algae and cyano loves low flow.

What about skimmer? Activated carbon? I suspect you might be over feeding if you have so much algae. Rotting food is the fuel for algae and seems you have no way to remove dissolved organic. You have minimal filtration.

I wonder if the water is oxygenated? No skimmer and only one powerhead, is it pointed at the water surface or the surface is flat? It should be turbulent. Lots of algae means low oxygen at night.

Tank pics will help.

I'm working towards rodi although I dont currently have the set up to be able to install one easily. But I agree the light is underpowered, it's able to grow some soft corals but anything beyond that struggles. I will probably end up picking coral around the light limitations rather than change the light to fit the coral, now that I'm more aware of its limitations.

I do feed quite light, and the power head is close to the surface, as well the HOB filter creates quite a bit of surface agitation, but I do still want to get a second powerhead.

 

[taylormaximus]

Good advice. I'll add to keep manually removing as well. It's a tough grind but you'll get there.

Did you ever confirm what species of dino you have? Some of those certainly will irritate corals and prevent them from opening

Not with certainty but I was pretty sure it was the amphidinium variety, but it is exclusive to the sandbed so it isn't affected any coral from what I could tell.

 

[taylormaximus]

Why is our hobby so plagued by misleading marketing?! It seems like you can’t trust what 75% of these companies claim, and the biggest players are often the worst offenders! Really grinds my gears…. Anyways, rant over. Happy reefing everyone!

If they make a light that technically kept a frag of GSP alive for a few weeks then they can call it a reef light and no one is supposed to ask questions! Definitely wish I knew that going in but you know how it goes, I wasn't even planning on keeping coral originally.

 

[taylormaximus]

I agree with what everyone is saying, but also some things to think about:

Buying new coral or fish will mean nothing if your water is going to kill it. No country consistently has clean enough tap water all year long, seasonally, especially during droughts and heavy rainfall seasons, local districts will change the cleaning additives to the water to make it safe for consumption, but aquarium water needs to be cleaner than what people can survive off of from the tap. I know it sucks, but best bet is stop buying coral or fish until you have enough money for a good rodi system (trust me, I’d struggle with this as well, so I feel for you).

Dinos will kill almost any invert after the invert eats it.

Your nitrates are probably zero due to the hair and film algae, which is probably leading to your Dino problem. your best bet is to buy a separate filter for the tank for a while like the sicce shark with the magnetically attached filters, then scrub the hair algae from your tank every couple of days so it can build some nitrate, and make sure to clean the filter of the sicce or equivalent pump each day to take the built up hair algae put.

You can use chemiclean to treat the cyano, but I would deal with the Dino’s and the hair algae before you go after the cyano. If you begin medicating the tank now you may throw things even further out of balance.

Your phosphates are way too high for 0 nitrate. Try and get a phosphate remover and dose to the tank at 1/4 the recommended dosage amount (into your filter floss or filter sock) each day until you are under 0.05.

Are you running your lights mostly white most of the time? If so, until you solve the issues with the Dino and the hair algae, get rid of the reds and greens and bring your whites to be less than 25% of what you set your blues to.

Cerith snails will take on cyano, it you need a lot of them. Never add too many at once. Add a handful, wait a couple of weeks, and if the cyano is still there, add another handful.

Forget about snails in general (except for ceriths) until your Dino’s are gone. Ceriths, typically (in my experience), have a 50% chance of survival against Dino’s, and it depends on the Dino species, hence the benefit of getting a handful at first to see if they survive.

Edit cause I just thought of this: what are you feeding the tank and how often???

Thanks for the detailed reply, and that all sounds grueling and I think you're right about it all. My biggest issue with rodi is more having a place to install it over the cost itself, although that's a big factor too.

I've definitely noticed some inverts died when they went on the sand, but my sandsifting goby did wonders when it was still alive, it turned up the sand enough that the Dinos barely showed up, but its death was followed pretty shortly by a lot of invert's deaths.

My lights run at close to 100% except for whites which I have around 10% at the peak.

I feed about half a cube of mysis a day and a small pinch of dry pellets. Only have 4 fish still alive right now, and my Royal gramma will eat everything if she gets a chance, so there's nothing usually left over.

 

[slingfox]

I'm working towards rodi although I dont currently have the set up to be able to install one easily. But I agree the light is underpowered, it's able to grow some soft corals but anything beyond that struggles. I will probably end up picking coral around the light limitations rather than change the light to fit the coral, now that I'm more aware of its limitations.

I do feed quite light, and the power head is close to the surface, as well the HOB filter creates quite a bit of surface agitation, but I do still want to get a second powerhead.

You don't need a complicated RODI setup. If you have a sink or laundry machine somewhere then you can put in an RODI. I have my 6 stage double membrane RODI sitting underneath a sink and I only pull out the lines when I need to generate RODI. I did not mount anything. The only modification I did to the plumbing was install a John Guest Speedfit Angle Stop Adapter Valve to the cold water line under one of my sinks. That took 2-3 minutes to do and only tool required is a wrench.

Here is the fitting:

John Guest Speedfit 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/4 Inch Angle Stop Adapter Valve, Push to Connect Plastic Plumbing Fitting, ASVPP1LF
https://a.co/d/aUAwLmd

 

[Spare time]

never consider tap water quite clean unless tested and verified with lab tests or water analysis. Often tap will be low in PH value. Additionally false tests, and salinity readings can be a contributor.
3 weeks copper power is short of the 30 day but acceptable. What copper level was the copper power and how did you test the copper level?.
Paracleanse pretty much useless. Did you mix both meds?

Paracleanse is basically API general cure

 

[Spare time]

That's fine to be skeptical. It is a form of carbon dosing and carbon dosing lowers nutrients. Whether it does it as good as it claims - I've never ran any laboratory tests. I know I have used it in 2 tanks to help get Dinos in check and it worked for that and I did notice my nitrates came down.

Not to change the thread, but mb7 is not carbon dosing unless they are misleading consumers with what is in it.

 

[RSNJReef]

Thanks for the detailed reply, and that all sounds grueling and I think you're right about it all. My biggest issue with rodi is more having a place to install it over the cost itself, although that's a big factor too.

I've definitely noticed some inverts died when they went on the sand, but my sandsifting goby did wonders when it was still alive, it turned up the sand enough that the Dinos barely showed up, but its death was followed pretty shortly by a lot of invert's deaths.

My lights run at close to 100% except for whites which I have around 10% at the peak.

I feed about half a cube of mysis a day and a small pinch of dry pellets. Only have 4 fish still alive right now, and my Royal gramma will eat everything if she gets a chance, so there's nothing usually left over.

I re-read your original post and you said your tank is ~30 gallons, when I had first started with my 48 gallon bow front, I used to buy distilled water from the supermarket in gallon jugs and then mix my saltwater in buckets. I then moved on to pre mixed saltwater from my local lfs which I knew mixed from rodi water (which is a good idea as an alternative, but gets pricey fast and you need to make sure they are in fact using rodi water and a legit salt. I’ve heard over the years of some lfs using tap water for their customers water, the. When the tank had issues, they would over services to remedy the tank, so make sure they lfs is legit).

It’s pricey and takes effort, but it’s a better alternative until you can get the rodi set up. They don’t call this a luxury hobby for nothin.

 

[AquaLogic]

I would never, never use tap water in a reef. What is your situation that you can't use RODI but have a place for a reef tank? I have a RODI system under my sink and I hook up a 5 gallon bucket with a float valve to it when I need to make water, and them put it away when I'm done. With a 32 gallon tank that is totally doable. I would set up a RODI system like that and slowly change out that tap water 5 gallons at a time. You don't need massive storage for RODI just because that's how others do it. I don't have room for a giant Brut can either. Get an RO Buddi and install it under your kitchen sink with some stop valves and just pull the hose out and connect it to your little bucket when you need it. The most likely culprit for all of this really is your water. Clean for human consumption is very different than clean enough for a reef. You would even be better off using distilled water until you can get RO installed.

I can't imagine that 32w on a 32 gallon is near enough light for anything. If you're on a tight budget I would look at Noopsyche.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Paracleanse is basically API general cure

MB7 is denitrifying bacteria and I would not compare paracleanse to General Cure as paracleanse does literally nothing. General cure is better despite ingredients

 

[Paul B]

Hair algae, not outrageous amounts but unstoppable

Dinos (confirmed with a microscope) covering sandbed during the day, they seem to be the harmless variety, and I used to have a sand sifting goby that made it almost a non issue, but absolutely nothing has worked to fix this

An unidentified green film algae that coats the rocks and also covers and kills a lot of coral. No one I've asked has had any ideas on what this is, and despite it killing corals they said not to worry about it

Most recently I've gotten a patch of red cyano, unknown yet how devastating that will be for the system

First of all, don't get discouraged as your tank is very new and the fact that you started it with dry rock and ASW you have almost none of the correct bacteria in there. All you have is the same bacteria that the store has where you got the corals from and that is not ideal.

To make you feel a little better, My tank is over 50 years old and I also have all those things growing that you have. Hair algae, dinos, cyano are all natural things found on a healthy reef.

I took these off a remote Island in the Hawaiian chain.





I would not add any chemicals to fix this as it is normal.

I think your inverts are dying because of tap water. Yes, I know it's clean, a little to clean and tap water is not natural water. It comes to you in pipes and whatever those pipes are made out somewhere along the line they are metal. Those metals are very toxic to inverts and especially corals . You can't test for this at home.

I once lost most of my tank because my water company added zinc orthophosphate to the water to control corrosion in the pipes.

I would also try to get something from the sea in there. Even a couple of rocks. I am not sure how far you live from the sea but if you can't do that, get even a small amount of live rock.

Your tank will calm down but you need to get rid of the tap water and get some real bacteria in there and not bacteria in a bottle (whatever that is)

Good luck

 

[taylormaximus]

You don't need a complicated RODI setup. If you have a sink or laundry machine somewhere then you can put in an RODI. I have my 6 stage double membrane RODI sitting underneath a sink and I only pull out the lines when I need to generate RODI. I did not mount anything. The only modification I did to the plumbing was install a John Guest Speedfit Angle Stop Adapter Valve to the cold water line under one of my sinks. That took 2-3 minutes to do and only tool required is a wrench.

Here is the fitting:

John Guest Speedfit 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/4 Inch Angle Stop Adapter Valve, Push to Connect Plastic Plumbing Fitting, ASVPP1LF
https://a.co/d/aUAwLmd

If you have any resources for simple installation of a unit, that would go a long way to help. We are renting so I would only be able to do it if it will involve little alteration to existing plumbing and if it's reversable. We have a furnace room and I would install it in there if possible.

I'm also wondering what the differences are between RO and RODI and how much you actually need to filter out the basic toxins. Could be a topic for another thread but I'm just looking for something to get me started.

 

[taylormaximus]

Cuprisorb is a great idea.

Poly-filters work great for this also and they actually change color to indicate what the impurities are. Ex. Green for copper, blue for iron, etc.

Do you think Cuprisorb would remove most the harmful toxins that could be hurting things from the tap water?

 

[Formulator]

Do you think Cuprisorb would remove most the harmful toxins that could be hurting things from the tap water?

I actually prefer the poly-filter because you get the bonus of knowing what it removed by the color change and you could find your “smoking gun”. That could be encouraging because you will know without a doubt what is causing your problems and how to fix it.

 

[Formulator]

POLYBIO Poly Filter PAD 4 X 8
https://a.co/d/0cRXQgg

 

[taylormaximus]

I just want to point out that there is no situation where zeroing out either or both is a good thing. Corals need nutrients to live.

Everything else you suggested is kosher, but you can’t start carbon dosing (mb7) with zero nitrates already. Need to get those up first, and then maybe consider it for stability.

So would you recommend not using MB7 until I can get a reading using Neonitro? I'm not really sure how much i should expect to dose before seeing any change, because in past attempts the algae would still just consume it all and give a zero reading.

 

[twentyleagues]

If you have any resources for simple installation of a unit, that would go a long way to help. We are renting so I would only be able to do it if it will involve little alteration to existing plumbing and if it's reversable. We have a furnace room and I would install it in there if possible.

I'm also wondering what the differences are between RO and RODI and how much you actually need to filter out the basic toxins. Could be a topic for another thread but I'm just looking for something to get me started.

Ro is reverse osmosis and rodi is reverse osmosis and deionizing resin. Get rodi. You can get faucet adapters to make it more portable just screw it on the faucet and turn it on.

 

[taylormaximus]

I actually prefer the poly-filter because you get the bonus of knowing what it removed by the color change and you could find your “smoking gun”. That could be encouraging because you will know without a doubt what is causing your problems and how to fix it.

Oh cool I wasn't aware of that product, you can put that right in your filter then I assume? And then the colour it turns indicates what toxins it's removing? How does that compare to Cuprisorb as far as efficacy with "unknown toxins?"

 

[Formulator]

So would you recommend not using MB7 until I can get a reading using Neonitro? I'm not really sure how much i should expect to dose before seeing any change, because in past attempts the algae would still just consume it all and give a zero reading.

I would stop the MB7 and start dosing 2 ppm NeoNitro daily. Check nitrate concentration every day before dosing. It may only come up a little bit at a time, but if it is zero the day after dosing 2 ppm, raise it to a 3 ppm dose. Do the same thing the next day and continue increasing the dose by 1 ppm until you start seeing nitrate come up. Once you see it rising, you can stick with that dose and continue dosing it every day until you get to ~10 ppm nitrate in your tank. Then continue to monitor and keep it at 10 ppm. Hopefully without the MB7, and as the algae goes away you can eventually stop dosing, but I’ve found I still have to dose a small amount daily. I may add more livestock eventually so I can stop dosing completely.

 

[Formulator]

Oh cool I wasn't aware of that product, you can put that right in your filter then I assume? And then the colour it turns indicates what toxins it's removing? How does that compare to Cuprisorb as far as efficacy with "unknown toxins?"

I think the poly-filter will bind more stuff than cuprisorb.