Velvet on Clown?

[Srfnhooker]

Hello All,
A couple days ago I notice my Royal Gramma and my Fang Blenny doing the scratch the side on sand thing. I thought it was a territorial thing since i didnt and still dont see anything on them. But last night whem i got home from work my clown didnt look right. Looked dusty. Did my research on the R2R and decided it was probably Velvet. All fish are still eating. Spent a few hrs today going to pick up quarantine supplies. Could not get Formaline of course so I bought Copper Power. Picked up a bin from walmart, 2" Pvc pipe and fittings from Lowes and a new airstone from local pet store. I have a power filter that i'll be using for flow or I have a couple older sicce power heads available i could use instead. No media ready. No tank cycle. Wil be starting with fresh Saltwater Im mixing up right now.
I plan on removing all the fish and giving FW bath for 3-5 min and then straight to quarantine with copper at 2.5 treatment dose (checked with API Ammonia test, have hanna checker on the way). Cant find Ruby Rally near me and amazon is 4 days out for earliest delivery.
Can I get some feed back on what I plan on doing. Any info would be great. A confirmed diagnosis based on images and video would be super. Thanks ahead of time for any help.

All Fish to remove:
2 BW Percula Clowns Mated Pair
1 Tomini Tang (Showing no sign of irritation)
1 Royal Gramma
1 Striped (Fang) Blenny
3 Fire fish (Showing no sign of irritation)
1 Melanurus Wrasse (Showing no sign of irritation)


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: LPS
Quarantine tank; yes plastic bin 16gal.
Aquarium water volume. IM Nuvo75 Ext w/ sump 80+/-gal water volume total after rock and sump.
Filtration type Sump, socks, protein skimmer, rock, running carbon thru bag/sock 24/7.
Lighting LED 2 Current R24s I also have an Aquatic Life Hybrid T5 I'll be adding soon. Along with a third R24 I have. Sunrise 10am sunset 730pm
How long has the aquarium been established? 14 months
Digital image of the whole aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature 77.3 - 77.8 F
pH: 8.2
Salinity / specific gravity 35 ppt
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 6 - 10
Phosphorus 0.05
Copper 0
Other Mag 1350
Calcium 410

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Not yet
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) Hard to count but much higher than normal.
Are the affected fish still feeding? Yes. Very well
What remedies have you tried so far? None Trying to catch for at least a freshwater dip and back to display tank to buy some time until SW is ready.
I made the beginner mistake of not having what I need for quarantine setup. I wont get caught with my pants down again. Have on order a few other things that i can use in the future if need be.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello All,
A couple days ago I notice my Royal Gramma and my Fang Blenny doing the scratch the side on sand thing. I thought it was a territorial thing since i didnt and still dont see anything on them. But last night whem i got home from work my clown didnt look right. Looked dusty. Did my research on the R2R and decided it was probably Velvet. All fish are still eating. Spent a few hrs today going to pick up quarantine supplies. Could not get Formaline of course so I bought Copper Power. Picked up a bin from walmart, 2" Pvc pipe and fittings from Lowes and a new airstone from local pet store. I have a power filter that i'll be using for flow or I have a couple older sicce power heads available i could use instead. No media ready. No tank cycle. Wil be starting with fresh Saltwater Im mixing up right now.
I plan on removing all the fish and giving FW bath for 3-5 min and then straight to quarantine with copper at 2.5 treatment dose (checked with API Ammonia test, have hanna checker on the way). Cant find Ruby Rally near me and amazon is 4 days out for earliest delivery.
Can I get some feed back on what I plan on doing. Any info would be great. A confirmed diagnosis based on images and video would be super. Thanks ahead of time for any help.

All Fish to remove:
2 BW Percula Clowns Mated Pair
1 Tomini Tang (Showing no sign of irritation)
1 Royal Gramma
1 Striped (Fang) Blenny
3 Fire fish (Showing no sign of irritation)
1 Melanurus Wrasse (Showing no sign of irritation)


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: LPS
Quarantine tank; yes plastic bin 16gal.
Aquarium water volume. IM Nuvo75 Ext w/ sump 80+/-gal water volume total after rock and sump.
Filtration type Sump, socks, protein skimmer, rock, running carbon thru bag/sock 24/7.
Lighting LED 2 Current R24s I also have an Aquatic Life Hybrid T5 I'll be adding soon. Along with a third R24 I have. Sunrise 10am sunset 730pm
How long has the aquarium been established? 14 months
Digital image of the whole aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature 77.3 - 77.8 F
pH: 8.2
Salinity / specific gravity 35 ppt
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 6 - 10
Phosphorus 0.05
Copper 0
Other Mag 1350
Calcium 410

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Not yet
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) Hard to count but much higher than normal.
Are the affected fish still feeding? Yes. Very well
What remedies have you tried so far? None Trying to catch for at least a freshwater dip and back to display tank to buy some time until SW is ready.
I made the beginner mistake of not having what I need for quarantine setup. I wont get caught with my pants down again. Have on order a few other things that i can use in the future if need be.

This is ich and clown and other occupants will have to be moved to quarantine and treated with coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Agreed - the clownfish has ich, not velvet.

Can you move any bio media (non calcium based) from your display to your treatment tank? Coppersafe or copper power will work to cure your fish, but you must control the ammonia in your treatment tank during the treatment time plus the fallow period for your display.

 

[Srfnhooker]

This is ich and clown and other occupants will have to be moved to quarantine and treated with coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

Great. Since not velvet do i have another day? My Hanna won't be here til Sunday and I don't want to overdo the copper. I noticed the Api kit color legend reads 2.0 and then 4.0 so not very accurate I agree. I was in a panic and bought the only thing they had. Also can I now ramp the copper up over a few days instead of hitting them with the full dose and is a fresh water bath first still recommended?

 

[Srfnhooker]

Agreed - the clownfish has ich, not velvet.

Can you move any bio media (non calcium based) from your display to your treatment tank? Coppersafe or copper power will work to cure your fish, but you must control the ammonia in your treatment tank during the treatment time plus the fallow period for your display.

Nothing to move over unfortunately. I would assume I will be doing water changes to bring down ammonia? Will Prime or some other ammonia remover work on some level?
I'll be putting 9 fish in a 16 gal tub.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nothing to move over unfortunately. I would assume I will be doing water changes to bring down ammonia? Will Prime or some other ammonia remover work on some level?
I'll be putting 9 fish in a 16 gal tub.

Prime is a water conditioner and not a remover as bottle implies. Water changes are best and reason for reliable test kits
When changing water, bring copper level in new water to match the level of tank before adding to tank

 

[Srfnhooker]

Prime is a water conditioner and not a remover as bottle implies. Water changes are best and reason for reliable test kits
When changing water, bring copper level in new water to match the level of tank before adding to tank

In my sump I have a couple sponges between the baffles that I havent cleaned in about a month. I'll use that and make fit the power filter I'll be using. I would think that will help keep the ammonia in check. It's a double sided filter so I'll have 2 chambers to put the sponge in.
As far as the Prime, after doing some more reading it sounds like it could possibly break the bond in the copper and change it into a not so friendly version of copper more dangerous to the fish. In lamens terms.

Do i need to do a freshwater dip or is that just another stressor on the fish.

I'm kinda worried about my mellenaurus and the copper. LFS guy says copper is not good for the wrasse and to remove it if showing any signs of stress.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Nothing to move over unfortunately. I would assume I will be doing water changes to bring down ammonia? Will Prime or some other ammonia remover work on some level?
I'll be putting 9 fish in a 16 gal tub.

Don’t use prime, it may react with some copper medications. Amquel would be a better choice.

Water changes on a 16 gallon tub with 9 fish is going to be really tough - possibly 100% every day or so. Also, tubs are bad to use because you won’t have any lateral viewing of the fish, so you cannot judge how they are doing.

Does your display have some live rock in it that you could sacrifice and use it for biofiltration? It will absorb copper, but you can adjust the dose using the Hanna meter. You just won’t be able to use that rock with invertebrates in the future.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In my sump I have a couple sponges between the baffles that I havent cleaned in about a month. I'll use that and make fit the power filter I'll be using. I would think that will help keep the ammonia in check. It's a double sided filter so I'll have 2 chambers to put the sponge in.
As far as the Prime, after doing some more reading it sounds like it could possibly break the bond in the copper and change it into a not so friendly version of copper more dangerous to the fish. In lamens terms.

Do i need to do a freshwater dip or is that just another stressor on the fish.

I'm kinda worried about my mellenaurus and the copper. LFS guy says copper is not good for the wrasse and to remove it if showing any signs of stress.

Correct, the bonders in the additive can alter the copper effectivity. Coppersafe is safe, Not cupramine which is an ionic version of copper. For wrasse, General cure will also work.

 

[Srfnhooker]

Correct, the bonders in the additive can alter the copper effectivity. Coppersafe is safe, Not cupramine which is an ionic version of copper. For wrasse, General cure will also work.

Good to hear. Thanks. I'll be starting tomorrow when Hanna checker arrives. Everyone still eating fine.

 

[Srfnhooker]

Don’t use prime, it may react with some copper medications. Amquel would be a better choice.

Water changes on a 16 gallon tub with 9 fish is going to be really tough - possibly 100% every day or so. Also, tubs are bad to use because you won’t have any lateral viewing of the fish, so you cannot judge how they are doing.

Does your display have some live rock in it that you could sacrifice and use it for biofiltration? It will absorb copper, but you can adjust the dose using the Hanna meter. You just won’t be able to use that rock with invertebrates in the future.

I have 40 gal breeder in the garage I can use so I guess I'll do that. I was trying not make up 40 gal of new SW.
No sacrificial rock but I have some sponges in my sump I can cut up and put in the HOB filter I'll be using. That will give me some biofiltration. Whether it will be enough, I guess I'll find out. It's a larger HOB filter with 2 sides that I can put sponge in.

 

[Srfnhooker]

Update: I used the sponges I had in my sump, cut them up and put in the HOB filter and added a large sponge filter. That did the trick in controlling the ammonia. I also added some Microbacter7. All fish are eating and doing well.
Got to a full copper dose on the 10th of Sept so I'm 36 days in. A little over the 30 days needed for copper. This weekend I'll be making a couple water changes to get the copper below 1.0 ppm. I received my Prazipro yesterday so I'll start that treatment after the copper reduction. X2 - 85% of recommended Prazi dose seven days apart with a 10 gal (25%) water change in between. I'll continue to make water changes during the rest of the observation/display fallow period of 70 days before reintroducing fish back to display. And then pray.
I started to have dinos show up 3 weeks in. PO4=0 and NO3=5 I guess because of no fish, no feeding. I've had a UV sitting around for 6 months that I never installed so I did, turned my lights all blue to 20% for 24 hrs X4 days and got rid of the dinos. Started to feed the tank with some pellet food and dose neophos and neonitro. Things seem stable now. Half way there.