Velvet disease

[LunaSky]

I'm pretty sure this has been spoken about in length, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. My main problem is treatment availability. I don't have "copper"... but every website I visit just says use copper. Like... what's the actual name on the bottle? Or do i stick a copper pipe in there and hope for the best? All LFS I visited (4) either had no clue how to help me or told me to do a freshwater dip. That's not working. Over 3 days, I've lost almost all my fish despite putting them in my quarantine tank, which will now also be infected.

All my fish except a single (but showing sypmyoms as of this morning) clownfish, mandrin, and goby are left. The mandrin and goby are not showing signs and are the only ones who have been in the DT for the 3 days I've been fighting the disease.

At this point, I'm going to assume the clown will perish. But after he does, how long and how do I rid the tank of the velvet disease? Especially with corals and inverts in the tank.

Tested today.
DT
40g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2ppm
Temp 78F
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8
Ph 8

QT
20g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 4ppm
Temp 79F
Salinity 1.023
Alk 10
Ph 7.8


I am new to reefs. This tank and the QT has be up since June 2024. I only had a Tomini tang, Royal Gramma (last added, first dead) 2 clownfish, mandrin and a goby. Cleaner shrimp and snails as well. Emerald crab and a snail in the QT. I started out with the two clowns and an Azure damsel who died pretty much the day I got him. Aside from the two clowns and damsel, all other fish were quarantined for 2 weeks. But I didn't QT the corals. I didn't think I had to. I did a revive dip and into the tank they went. This is probably where I went wrong. Or maybe adding fish and corals too quickly... but the parameters were staying great with each addition. I don't know. I'm feeling pretty devastated and defeated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm pretty sure this has been spoken about in length, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. My main problem is treatment availability. I don't have "copper"... but every website I visit just says use copper. Like... what's the actual name on the bottle? Or do i stick a copper pipe in there and hope for the best? All LFS I visited (4) either had no clue how to help me or told me to do a freshwater dip. That's not working. Over 3 days, I've lost almost all my fish despite putting them in my quarantine tank, which will now also be infected.

All my fish except a single (but showing sypmyoms as of this morning) clownfish, mandrin, and goby are left. The mandrin and goby are not showing signs and are the only ones who have been in the DT for the 3 days I've been fighting the disease.

At this point, I'm going to assume the clown will perish. But after he does, how long and how do I rid the tank of the velvet disease? Especially with corals and inverts in the tank.

Tested today.
DT
40g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2ppm
Temp 78F
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8
Ph 8

QT
20g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 4ppm
Temp 79F
Salinity 1.023
Alk 10
Ph 7.8


I am new to reefs. This tank and the QT has be up since June 2024. I only had a Tomini tang, Royal Gramma (last added, first dead) 2 clownfish, mandrin and a goby. Cleaner shrimp and snails as well. Emerald crab and a snail in the QT. I started out with the two clowns and an Azure damsel who died pretty much the day I got him. Aside from the two clowns and damsel, all other fish were quarantined for 2 weeks. But I didn't QT the corals. I didn't think I had to. I did a revive dip and into the tank they went. This is probably where I went wrong. Or maybe adding fish and corals too quickly... but the parameters were staying great with each addition. I don't know. I'm feeling pretty devastated and defeated.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

True velvet is pretty rare. The symptoms are rapid breathing, not eating, hanging in water flow, followed by death in a few days. If you can see spots, it is more likely ich.

Pics and/or video is helpful in proper diagnosis.

Getting decent fish medications is difficult in Canada.

If you think it is indeed, velvet, it can be treated with hydrogen peroxide dips. Trouble is, you need to do these at least three days, moving the fish into a sterile tank each time.

 

[LunaSky]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

True velvet is pretty rare. The symptoms are rapid breathing, not eating, hanging in water flow, followed by death in a few days. If you can see spots, it is more likely ich.

Pics and/or video is helpful in proper diagnosis.

Getting decent fish medications is difficult in Canada.

If you think it is indeed, velvet, it can be treated with hydrogen peroxide dips. Trouble is, you need to do these at least three days, moving the fish into a sterile tank each time.

Here's the last clown showing symptoms before moving him to QT. You can see he's swimming against the the flow of the wave maker.

The next photo is of my tomini tang right as he died. You can barely make out the slime covering his body.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Freshwater dip will not address velvet and when you say symptoms, what symptoms are you seeing other than rapid breathing and loss of appetite?
Peroxide will be an option opposed to freshwater dips which wont be effective. Realizing you are in Canada, You should be able to get ruby Rally Pro which will take longer to work.
You can also check with pets drug mart I believe in Ontario and Montreal for available meds

 

[LunaSky]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

True velvet is pretty rare. The symptoms are rapid breathing, not eating, hanging in water flow, followed by death in a few days. If you can see spots, it is more likely ich.

Pics and/or video is helpful in proper diagnosis.

Getting decent fish medications is difficult in Canada.

If you think it is indeed, velvet, it can be treated with hydrogen peroxide dips. Trouble is, you need to do these at least three days, moving the fish into a sterile tank each time.

Also, there was spots on my last clownfish, but she's the only one I noticed salt like spots on. Mostly, she was covered in the same flakes slime like stuff. She swam against the out take of the filter.

Freshwater dip will not address velvet and when you say symptoms, what symptoms are you seeing other than rapid breathing and loss of appetite?
Peroxide will be an option opposed to freshwater dips which wont be effective. Realizing you are in Canada, You should be able to get ruby Rally Pro which will take longer to work.
You can also check with pets drug mart I believe in Ontario and Montreal for available meds

First symptom is flashing and scraping. Second, swimming against the current, then not eating, before eventually losing all buoyancy and growing a film like consistency around their body. Then death. Only one clown had the added symptom of white ick like spots.

 

[Uncle99]

Also, there was spots on my last clownfish, but she's the only one I noticed salt like spots on. Mostly, she was covered in the same flakes slime like stuff. She swam against the out take of the filter.



First symptom is flashing and scraping. Second, swimming against the current, then not eating, before eventually losing all buoyancy and growing a film like consistency around their body. Then death. Only one clown had the added symptom of white ick like spots.

Walmart.ca shows Seachem Cupramine available for $23.00 in Canada. I have a 250ml bottle.

Amazon.ca shows coppersafe available as well in Canada.

Supposed to be banned in 2019 I heard, but looks like not yet anyways.

Velvet is a fast killer, so not much help really.

 

[AetherealKnight]

I'm pretty sure this has been spoken about in length, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. My main problem is treatment availability. I don't have "copper"... but every website I visit just says use copper. Like... what's the actual name on the bottle? Or do i stick a copper pipe in there and hope for the best? All LFS I visited (4) either had no clue how to help me or told me to do a freshwater dip. That's not working. Over 3 days, I've lost almost all my fish despite putting them in my quarantine tank, which will now also be infected.

All my fish except a single (but showing sypmyoms as of this morning) clownfish, mandrin, and goby are left. The mandrin and goby are not showing signs and are the only ones who have been in the DT for the 3 days I've been fighting the disease.

At this point, I'm going to assume the clown will perish. But after he does, how long and how do I rid the tank of the velvet disease? Especially with corals and inverts in the tank.

Tested today.
DT
40g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2ppm
Temp 78F
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8
Ph 8

QT
20g
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 4ppm
Temp 79F
Salinity 1.023
Alk 10
Ph 7.8


I am new to reefs. This tank and the QT has be up since June 2024. I only had a Tomini tang, Royal Gramma (last added, first dead) 2 clownfish, mandrin and a goby. Cleaner shrimp and snails as well. Emerald crab and a snail in the QT. I started out with the two clowns and an Azure damsel who died pretty much the day I got him. Aside from the two clowns and damsel, all other fish were quarantined for 2 weeks. But I didn't QT the corals. I didn't think I had to. I did a revive dip and into the tank they went. This is probably where I went wrong. Or maybe adding fish and corals too quickly... but the parameters were staying great with each addition. I don't know. I'm feeling pretty devastated and defeated.

I typically use a brand called “Cupramine.”

 

[LunaSky]

Will this work?

 

[AetherealKnight]

Will this work?

Yes just follow the instructions in maintaining the therapeutic level of copper. Though be aware that this is not chelated copper, which is substantially less harsh on fish. That being said I have used ionic copper before, some fish may survive some might not depending on their health.

 

[LunaSky]

Yes just follow the instructions in maintaining the therapeutic level of copper

Thank you. I'll order it now and try to save the remaining fish. But I have a feeling the clown won't make it until it's delivered.

Also, how long will the disease stay in my tank? I don't want to go through this again with future fish. Cost of the fish aside, I did really like these fish.

 

[AetherealKnight]

Thank you. I'll order it now and try to save the remaining fish. But I have a feeling the clown won't make it until it's delivered.

Also, how long will the disease stay in my tank? I don't want to go through this again with future fish. Cost of the fish aside, I did really like these fish.

You need to fallow the tank (leave it empty) for 45 days minimum, and turn up the tank temperature to 80-81 degrees. This will speed up the life cycle of ich. Optionally you can let the tank fallow for 76 days to make sure. It is quite rare to contract an ich strand that can survive longer than 45 days in the real world.

 

[jamesb07]

Thank you. I'll order it now and try to save the remaining fish. But I have a feeling the clown won't make it until it's delivered.

Also, how long will the disease stay in my tank? I don't want to go through this again with future fish. Cost of the fish aside, I did really like these fish.

76 day fallow period

 

[LunaSky]

You need to fallow the tank for 45 days minimum, and turn up the tank temperature to 80-81 degrees. Optionally you can let the tank fallow for 76 days to make sure.

That means no fish right? What about the corals, shrimp and snail?

 

[jamesb07]

That means no fish right? What about the corals, shrimp and snail?

Those will be fine in the tank

 

[AetherealKnight]

Those will be fine in the tank

Yes these will be fine in the tank, however you cannot add any additions to the tank during the fallow period. On the bright side feel free to stock up on corals or inverts while you can.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also, there was spots on my last clownfish, but she's the only one I noticed salt like spots on. Mostly, she was covered in the same flakes slime like stuff. She swam against the out take of the filter.



First symptom is flashing and scraping. Second, swimming against the current, then not eating, before eventually losing all buoyancy and growing a film like consistency around their body. Then death. Only one clown had the added symptom of white ick like spots.

Its possible you have two things going at once . Pics you provided are too dark in blue to see anything and best under white light intensity. Other velvet symptoms will be the fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. Some apply here.
Ich always shows spots at first. They are less visible in some species, and long term, the spots coalesce into mucus, but it is never seen in just the gills.

Will this work?

Yes- apply at Maximum level .5 and Monitor with a Hanna brand copper test kit

 

[LunaSky]

Its possible you have two things going at once . Pics you provided are too dark in blue to see anything and best under white light intensity. Other velvet symptoms will be the fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. Some apply here.
Ich always shows spots at first. They are less visible in some species, and long term, the spots coalesce into mucus, but it is never seen in just the gills.

Yes- apply at Maximum level .5 and Monitor with a Hanna brand copper test kit

Yes, my tang definitely had clamped fins. Not the clowns that I noticed. The issue with the gramma and probably why I caught it so late is because he hid all the time. The tang wasn't very nice to the gramma. So it didn't surprise me when I found him stuck to the filter intake. Figured he was bullied to death.

As the tang and female clown went through the symptoms, both were at the top of the tank swimming against the current. The male clown's only symptoms currently is swimming against the water circulator current, not eating, and glancing off objects and the sand. The gramma was doing this against a mushroom coral near the den he hid in. But he didn't seem sick... I just thought it was weird gramma behavior. At the end, the tang and clown just floated with the current. The current thing was the first symptoms with the clown fish. Lethargy and not eating was the tangs first symptom. All in about three days. From the time I noticed something was wrong, both died within a day of each other and within 24hours after I noticed the swiping was becoming a pattern amongst all the fish.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes, my tang definitely had clamped fins. Not the clowns that I noticed. The issue with the gramma and probably why I caught it so late is because he hid all the time. The tang wasn't very nice to the gramma. So it didn't surprise me when I found him stuck to the filter intake. Figured he was bullied to death.

As the tang and female clown went through the symptoms, both were at the top of the tank swimming against the current. The male clown's only symptoms currently is swimming against the water circulator current, not eating, and glancing off objects and the sand. The gramma was doing this against a mushroom coral near the den he hid in. But he didn't seem sick... I just thought it was weird gramma behavior. At the end, the tang and clown just floated with the current. The current thing was the first symptoms with the clown fish. Lethargy and not eating was the tangs first symptom. All in about three days. From the time I noticed something was wrong, both died within a day of each other and within 24hours after I noticed the swiping was becoming a pattern amongst all the fish.

Im convinced based on description of velvet and do utilize the cupramine. Do not go by drops as this is an ionic version which is more potent and monitor ammonia levels with reliable test kit and add aeration with air stone

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here's the last clown showing symptoms before moving him to QT. You can see he's swimming against the the flow of the wave maker.

The next photo is of my tomini tang right as he died. You can barely make out the slime covering his body.

Sorry - a clear video under white light is needed to confirm velvet. The mention of slime could mean that it is Brooklynella, but you also mentioned spots and that can be ich. Trouble is that all protozoan infections tend to have similar symptoms towards the end.

regarding fallow periods, 76 days will work, but it is longer than needed, especially for velvet or brooklynella:

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

That means no fish right? What about the corals, shrimp and snail?

You leave the coral, etc in the tank - just no 'fish'. I would recommend 8 weeks - there are some other protocols - but if you're going do to 6 weeks, you might as well do 8. IMHO.