Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[JCOLE]

Beautiful, fantastic and pendulous. HaHa, a wealth of algae!

Thank you for the offer. jda is sending me some that will meet my immediate needs but I may
come back to you for an unrinsed sample to cultivate what rinses out of it.

Dan

Let me know if you need some. It's about time to harvest again!

 

[Dan_P]

Let me know if you need some. It's about time to harvest again!

Thank you for the generous offer.

I think that I have viable bunch growing right now and it should be enough for Vibrant experiments.

Dan

 

[dank reefer]

Let me know if you need some. It's about time to harvest again!

Ill take some from you if you still have it

 

[JCOLE]

Ill take some from you if you still have it

Yes sir! I'll PM you.

 

[Mickey]

Sorry if this is too off topic but wasn't sure of the best thread to post this.

For those of us who used Vibrant and had problems with it, do we need to get it out of our tanks, or will it dissipate or become nonreactive in a short time? Any idea how long its effects might linger? How best to get it out, i.e. water changes or GAC?

For me, I just wish I had seen the various Vibrant warning threads when they were new and before I used it late last year.

Mickey

 

[polyppal]

It has now been one month since the EPA inspection and UWC has not responded.

 

[Dan_P]

Sorry if this is too off topic but wasn't sure of the best thread to post this.

For those of us who used Vibrant and had problems with it, do we need to get it out of our tanks, or will it dissipate or become nonreactive in a short time? Any idea how long its effects might linger? How best to get it out, i.e. water changes or GAC?

For me, I just wish I had seen the various Vibrant warning threads when they were new and before I used it late last year.

Mickey

My interpretation is that Vibrant can bind irreversibly to stuff in the aquarium which means it is there to stay, but it might not be active or toxic In the bound state. If Vibrant is in the water then water changes will remove it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My interpretation is that Vibrant can bind irreversibly to stuff in the aquarium which means it is there to stay, but it might not be active or toxic In the bound state. If Vibrant is in the water then water changes will remove it.

I agree.

 

[Mickey]

I figured that, but what about living tissue? I lost my large plating monti and pretty sure it was due to Vibrant (and my coralline). I could see it failing, bleaching in spots and color shifting from orange to weird pink, but didn't make the connection to Vibrant in time. That was months ago. But I have a large LPS that has also shifted color from orange to pink though otherwise it still looks good. Just wondering if there is anything I can do to help get it's original color back.

As an aside and in Full disclosure - I'm also now fighting a bad dino outbreak of large cell amphidinium. I'm rereading all the large dino threads and working on it slow and steady.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If there is vibrant stuck to tissue surfaces, I doubt there is any action you can take to remove it that isn’t going to cause a worse problem.

 

[Mickey]

I figured, but it was worth asking in case you had a suggestion.

Thanks.

 

[Spare time]

Anyone else like coming back to these massive threads every few weeks to see what argument is going on or how derailed the thread got?

 

[moz71]

If there is vibrant stuck to tissue surfaces, I doubt there is any action you can take to remove it that isn’t going to cause a worse problem.

I am sure there is some stuck in tissue as (on another thread we are discussing) several of us just can’t get cheato to grow again after several months of stopping vibrant. Not dying but just stalled. Also I have a clam that is still alive and healthy looking but hasn’t grown in nine months.

 

[Toob]

Well - they still have the products listed on their website - all are 'out of stock' - so my (total guess) - is that there are still analyses/discussions going on. So - yes - I think they will respond - sometime. have you ever been involved with an EPA Audit? Do you think they do this in a couple days?

I have - twice actually. Both were over in a single day. Once at a well-known Fortune500 company (audit of a specific fulfillment location) and once while working at a fish cannery in Alaska.

UWC is a small company and Vibrant sales are tiny relative to much of what the EPA deals with. If you have fantasies that they are somehow conducting some large scale, rigorous investigation - you’re delusional.

I also find it hard to believe that UWC needs to wait for this “audit” to complete before they can comment on their very own product. The trump memes are right, that’s just total BS imo and doesn’t even make logical sense.

 

[MnFish1]

I have - twice actually. Both were over in a single day. Once at a well-known Fortune500 company (audit of a specific fulfillment location) and once while working at a fish cannery in Alaska.

UWC is a small company and Vibrant sales are tiny relative to much of what the EPA deals with. If you have fantasies that they are somehow conducting some large scale, rigorous investigation - you’re delusional.

I also find it hard to believe that UWC needs to wait for this “audit” to complete before they can comment on their very own product. The trump memes are right, that’s just total BS imo and doesn’t even make logical sense.

There are no results on the EPA website of the audit. And once the results are in - the warning letter or any other action (unless there is 'no action' will be posted.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, let's not derail this Vibrant science thread.

I assure folks that Reef2Reef has not forgotten about potential terms of service violations by UWC and the issue will not just disappear into the past. We are just giving a bit more time for things to become clearer and for UWC to say what they want in their defense. I will keep folks updated with any new information, and the time for UWC to respond is not unlimited.

 

[MnFish1]

EDIT - wrong thread!

 

[taricha]

I lost my large plating monti and pretty sure it was due to Vibrant (and my coralline). I could see it failing, bleaching in spots and color shifting from orange to weird pink, but didn't make the connection to Vibrant in time.

I am sure there is some stuck in tissue as (on another thread we are discussing) several of us just can’t get cheato to grow again after several months of stopping vibrant. Not dying but just stalled. Also I have a clam that is still alive and healthy looking but hasn’t grown in nine months.

Anecdotal, but matches my observation. Heavy dosage, I lost most a monti-cap colony. I fragged the remaining piece and re-glued it to rock. No sign of growth for an extended time - multiple months.
Maybe two months after my latest dosing, I suddenly noticed I had to scrape coralline off the glass a lot, film algae growing on glass too, and the monti cap had started to grow and encrust. You don't notice how much these things had halted until suddenly they re-start and you realize how little coralline growth had been on the glass for how long.

If somebody wanted to make the observation quantifiable, zoom photos with a ruler on the glass for scale tracking spots of coralline expansion over time before adding the algaecide, then add the algaecide and track it for time. See if these anecdotes about stalled growth for 1-2months holds up to numerical data.

one last point: not confident that "stuck to tissues" is the most correct description of what's happened to a montipora or a ball of chaeto.
It could be, but there may be other ways to cause such a long-term effect (if it's real).

 

[Trickman2]

My interpretation is that Vibrant can bind irreversibly to stuff in the aquarium which means it is there to stay, but it might not be active or toxic In the bound state. If Vibrant is in the water then water changes will remove it.

That is interesting....do we understand how it is binding to stuff? For all the folks that got lied to. What is the effect of this? I wonder if any scientific documents on Busan

 

[JCOLE]

@taricha @Dan_P @Randy Holmes-Farley

I posted in my build thread and figured it would be good to ask this here. I am in the process of upgrading my system to a 480 gallon peninsula in the next couple of months. My original plan was to combine my existing system with the new system for a couple of months to make the transition run a little more smooth.

My issue now is I am contemplating starting this system completely from scratch with all dry rock, etc. The reasoning is I don't know the long term effects of what is in Vibrant and if whatever is in there can and will bind to rocks, etc for a long time or permanently. If I go this route then I will put all rocks and corals in my existing sump/frag tank while I set my new system up and then frag the Acros from the rocks when the time comes to put them in the new system.

What are your thoughts on this? My last dose of Vibrant was around November or December of 2020. Just concerned that there could be some residuals lingering in the rock work, etc.