Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[Duffer]

He is unaware that there is a marine version of Algaefix. As far as I know, the only difference is the label, the contents are identical.

This is interesting. The label says "When used in salt water will not harm snails, clams, scallops, shrimp, anemones, sea cucumbers, feather dusters, coralline algae, soft corals, hard corals, and other invertebrates".

Ryan has since edited , as he states he was not aware api had a marine algaefix

 

[Casual_reefkeeping]

Along those lines, it would be interesting to compare the outcomes for threads where people dose Algaefix to their tanks to those that dose Vibrant. My hypothesis is that there will be more negative outcomes from the Vibrant tanks, due to the tank owner's not being aware that they are really dosing an algaecide, and as a result being less cautious in their approach.

Late to the party here but I suspect this was my case a while back as a less experienced reefer. I had used vibrant to tackle hair algae as a new reefer and spent months after fighting dinoflagellates. I was definitely not particularly prices of cautious with vibrant since it was advertised as a bacterial additive. I was treating it like microbacter, Dr. Tim's or fritz, where a notable overdose may produce a bacterial bloom but using a little excess is more or less harmless.

 

[ReefBeta]

Very interesting video that just came out from BRS on vibrant, this is their statement…it appears they talked to uwc and are putting a pause on sales..

The response he said he got from UWC is kind of BS. Do they have no evidence to prove there are bacteria in their product when they claim 95% of it is bacteria blend? The study here show not only that it is the same as aglaefix, but also there is no evidence of bacteria in it at all. At the very least, UWC themselves should have regular lab result about the content of their product for quality control propose, shouldn't they? One can try to culture bacteria, but the production process went wrong somewhere, and no bacteria was end up in the culture. If they don't regularly test their own products for it, then even if they don't have ill intent to lie about it, they're incompetent in manufacturing bacteria based product, or in the other word, lied about their competency in it.

Same goes to the bacteria culture test Ryan suggested. UWC should be the first to conduct such study to prove the content of their claim. If they can at least show that first, then it might be valuable for other independent lab to replicate such study. But if they themselves weren't able to show their proof, I don't see why any others have any obligations on doing such study for them. It's their product after all. All the balls are on their court now.

 

[saltyhog]

There's no need of a bacterial culture of it....the NMR showed no peak at all where amino acids should have been if there were bacteria in it.

 

[sghera64]

I tried several times to identify bacteria under a microscope in samples from a fresh bottle of Vibrant and found not a single organism. I tried heat fixing and staining but found nothing.

 

[sghera64]

Will carbon (Rox0.8) remove this algacide?

 

[sghera64]

I looked up some SDS posts on this chemical. One reference indicated it kills some fungi (sponges) and bacteria.


Sources/Uses
Used to control algae, bacteria, and fungi in residential and non-commercial aquatic areas (i.e. swimming pools and fountains), metal working fluids, water cooling towers, and water systems for fire protection, textiles, pulp and paper, and petroleum secondary recovery;

 

[sghera64]

Looks like a fairly large molecule (below). Perhaps frequent carbon changing will indeed adsorb and reduce its accumulation in a tank with prior use. Another idea is to introduce a large amount of sacrificial algae like chaeto that is grown “off-line”, put into a refugium and removed and replaced.

 

[ReefBeta]

wow, the video from Ryan is gone already. ;Nailbiting

 

[LRT]

wow, the video from Ryan is gone already. ;Nailbiting

I'm really glad I had a chance to watch it. I felt it was a genuine honest response. I feel like Brs is all over it and putting plans in place for something like this to not happen again. Stand up really. To bad we are all caught in the middle of this including Brs.

 

[Sean Clark]

wow, the video from Ryan is gone already. ;Nailbiting

Vibrant is still not available on the BRS site though... For what that is worth...

 

[ReefBeta]

Vibrant is still not available on the BRS site though... For what that is worth...

While still having the "BRS Recommended" badge on it.

Like they're still recommending it, just it happen to run out of stock at the moment.

 

[Sean Clark]

While still having the "BRS Recommended" badge on it.

Like they're still recommending it, just it happen to run out of stock at the moment.

I noticed that too. I was going to use the recommended bage as a measure of the fallout going forward.

 

[Doctorgori]

While still having the "BRS Recommended" badge on it.

Like they're still recommending it, just it happen to run out of stock at the moment.

I’m guessing that recommendation took a small hit as of late
as I’ve said before, slapping this on some products may be more fitting

 

[blaxsun]

wow, the video from Ryan is gone already. ;Nailbiting

Even though I thought the video was fairly neutral, UWC didn't exactly come across as sincere. More like they were looking to buy time to discredit this without admitting any kind of liability.

All you have to do is look at a company like Tropic Marin to get a sense of what seems off here.

 

[Reef craze]

I don't think there is much argument that the products "work". Algaecides do what they do: kill algae.

IMO, there are great many "good" algae living in a mature reef tank and an algaecide can be very indiscriminate. That leaves a lot of scorched earth in your reef. Somebody is going to fill that void. Will you like the new competitor more than the old one(s)?

For a FOWLR tank I say have at it. A softy tank? Why not? But if you are stocked with a bunch of acropora, caveat emptor.

All seems to be coming together at least in my case where I was dosing vibrant in my sps tank to deal with algae and losing acros left and right. Decided to cut down and stop using it and rely on water changes and manual removal and stopped losing corals. Cost me $1000s now reading this ticked off a company made money and cost me so much.

 

[Duffer]

I noticed the video is gone also so I asked BRS that question…I’m th8nking maybe the goof up of api marin fixe

 

[ineption]

Anything UWC say is going to bs imho, yes people can be smart enough to put a spin on any claims presented in this forum from claiming ignorance naivety to outright lying which is more likely then unlikely. As few mentioned most claims about there product have been dismissed by the manufacturer already. So that really leaves them with no much room to maneuver at all. I haven't watched brs video by Ryan, but it sounds like a step in right direction! Bravo to all that have put the effort in. I only wish I had read JDA post warnings about this product in 2017 - 18 as I had lost lots of corals possibly due to dosing Virbrant and attributed this to instability in the tank.

 

[shwareefer]

Even though I thought the video was fairly neutral, UWC didn't exactly come across as sincere. More like they were looking to buy time to discredit this without admitting any kind of liability.

Exactly this.

 

[telegraham]

A few months back, our lead microbiologist and I streaked MB7 and Vibrant on MacConkey and TSB plates. MB7 totally grew. Can't say the same for Vibrant.