Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Again, not calling into question the intent or execution here of neutrality. Neutral in practice and neutral in perception are two different things.

And, not everything in this thread is chemistry related - lots of talk about legal action etc. If by extension that content would be defined as chemistry related, that could be a pretty slippery slope.

Moderation does not always mean censorship. If you wanted to keep this laser focused on the chemistry and science, as a moderator you could counsel those posting to keep the conversation on that track. No censorship necessary. I have not seen that.

If a manufacturer or business does not believe your forum to be a neutral space (not saying UWC feels that way), that perception is their reality. My offer to appear in a more neutral space was with that potentially being an issue due to all that "legal action" content - not my feeling about this thread, forum, or R2R in general.

Also, having a moderator that does not take PMs seems a bit weird. I get the likely reason why you have done so, but it does make private conversations not possible and my responses to you landing here instead - which are also off-topic.

I am glad he has contacted you. Hopefully the community will get more information on this issue one way or another and it can be put to bed once and for all. Either way, you are always welcome to discuss this or any other matter on our livestream.

I strongly disagree with your opinions, but am not going to debate the nature of the forum with you.

 

[dank reefer]

All,

Forgive me for admittedly being a bit lazy and not reading the 22 pages of discourse here... However, if in fact Vibrant contains an algaecide (seemingly it does), what other options do we have for species such as Valonia? My emeralds don't touch it, nor do my fish... My phosphates are nearly undetectable (ULNS) and the species of BA I have aggressively grows, even in the absence of Po4 (I'm theorizing it may grow off of silicates)..... Either way, Vibrant has been the only "effective" method for me in the past...

AlgaeFix from API, Same thing and much cheaper

 

[dank reefer]

No offense your comments to me make zero sense.

None Taken... Updated

 

[Wunderpus]

AlgaeFix from API, Same thing and much cheaper

Interesting. Is that comparably "reef safe"?

Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one to come up with this... but, if the chemical kills algae, why doesn't it harm the zooxanthellae in corals? I've used Vibrant a few times with no memorable mortalities, even at a double dose.... However, I know some users have had issues... But, a lot of users ALSO have dinos and or cyano post-usage...

So, the mortalities COULD be from bottoming out nutrients (i.e. cyano and/or dinos), right? Obviously, I am well aware these theories are mostly junk, just thinking "out loud" here.

This is why this community is so awesome. I love the testing spirit that has grown over the yeas.

 

[shwareefer]

Interesting. Is that comparably "reef safe"?

Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one to come up with this... but, if the chemical kills algae, why doesn't it harm the zooxanthellae in corals? I've used Vibrant a few times with no memorable mortalities, even at a double dose.... However, I know some users have had issues... But, a lot of users ALSO have dinos and or cyano post-usage...

So, the mortalities COULD be from bottoming out nutrients (i.e. cyano and/or dinos), right? Obviously, I am well aware these theories are mostly junk, just thinking "out loud" here.

This is why this community is so awesome. I love the testing spirit that has grown over the yeas.

Dr Tim sums up the dinos/cyano issue beautifully here. Can't wait for the rest of this series.

 

[dank reefer]

Interesting. Is that comparably "reef safe"?

Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one to come up with this... but, if the chemical kills algae, why doesn't it harm the zooxanthellae in corals? I've used Vibrant a few times with no memorable mortalities, even at a double dose.... However, I know some users have had issues... But, a lot of users ALSO have dinos and or cyano post-usage...

So, the mortalities COULD be from bottoming out nutrients (i.e. cyano and/or dinos), right? Obviously, I am well aware these theories are mostly junk, just thinking "out loud" here.

This is why this community is so awesome. I love the testing spirit that has grown over the yeas.

I look at it like this.

If the product is killing algae, then you would think that the die off will raise nutrients, not bottom out your nutrients, Right?

I have never used AlgaeFix, but I have used Vibrant in the past for bubble algae in a 36g tank I had before. It did work at killing the bubble algae, and it did stunt my chaetos growth as harvesting was usually done every 2 weeks, then went to almost 1 month after dosing Vibrant. Tank was a Zoa/Softy tank with 1 BTA and I did not see any ill effects in that tank.

I dosed it into my SPS dominate tank at the same dosage rate, and I did not see any ill effects on my SPS as too bleaching or RTN/STN but I also did not dose the 6-7 weeks that it took to remove it from the other tank (maybe 3 weeks dosing 1 time a week)

 

[Wunderpus]

I look at it like this.

If the product is killing algae, then you would think that the die off will raise nutrients, not bottom out your nutrients, Right?

I have never used AlgaeFix, but I have used Vibrant in the past for bubble algae in a 36g tank I had before. It did work at killing the bubble algae, and it did stunt my chaetos growth as harvesting was usually done every 2 weeks, then went to almost 1 month after dosing Vibrant. Tank was a Zoa/Softy tank with 1 BTA and I did not see any ill effects in that tank.

I dosed it into my SPS dominate tank at the same dosage rate, and I did not see any ill effects on my SPS as too bleaching or RTN/STN but I also did not dose the 6-7 weeks that it took to remove it from the other tank (maybe 3 weeks dosing 1 time a week)

My understanding is/was that the “bacteria” (for what that is worth now) would outcompete nuisssnce algae, thus, bottoming out nutrients as a side effect… again, take that for what it’s worth….

 

[ScottB]

My understanding is/was that the “bacteria” (for what that is worth now) would outcompete nuisssnce algae, thus, bottoming out nutrients as a side effect… again, take that for what it’s worth….

There is discussion in the thread wrt nutrient effects several pages back. Anecdotally, we have seen increases and decreases and there are very plausible explanations for both effects.

 

[jeffww]

If I told you I could eat a three course meal at cheesecake factory and not have to use the toilet or gain any weight would you believe me? That is how moronic the claims made by vibrant being a bacterial product that simultaneously outcompetes algae AND doesn’t propagate in saltwater and oh btw it doesn’t also die eventually and release the nutrients back.

 

[Seneca]

I get all of this but if a manufacturer does not feel comfortable in this format (due to the reasons I have put forth earlier)

The manufacturer has been caught lying to everyone in this community for years and years. It's no surprise they aren't comfortable.

 

[Malcontent]

If I told you I could eat a three course meal at cheesecake factory and not have to use the toilet or gain any weight would you believe me? That is how moronic the claims made by vibrant being a bacterial product that simultaneously outcompetes algae AND doesn’t propagate in saltwater and oh btw it doesn’t also die eventually and release the nutrients back.

 

[dank reefer]

This might get pulled down for blasphemy

 

[elysics]

Great work @taricha and everyone, bringing light to these shadowy magic elixirs is always a great step forward for the hobby whether for good or bad.

And to be honest, i am glad that it is what it turns out to be now. When i first heard about this product and how it supposedly was some rare and exotic bacterial strain that eats many pretty differrent kinds of algae, i was confused. I chalked it up to atrophied environmental regulations and "land of the free" attitude in the US, but was kinda worried about what sounds like a bioweapon being unleashed upon the world should it ever escape the tank of some random unsuspecting hobbyist that bought a magic bottle in the hobby store and find a local waterway that is to it's liking. No warnings about biosecurity either.

A random algaecide that is apparently widely used is a relief in comparison

 

[Wunderpus]

There is discussion in the thread wrt nutrient effects several pages back. Anecdotally, we have seen increases and decreases and there are very plausible explanations for both effects.

That's sort of what I was implying... Meaning, we don't really know... But, it is POSSIBLE the reduction in nutrients could cause deficiencies in the corals, as well.

 

[Lousybreed]

wow, thank you OP ….
…Honestly, I appreciate the work but dammed if I understood any of it besides Algaefix = Vibrant + 50% markup

No just the standard reef tax of 50%. Quite blasé for todays reef taxing standards. @telegraham

 

[Duffer]

Very interesting video that just came out from BRS on vibrant, this is their statement…it appears they talked to uwc and are putting a pause on sales..

 

[MnFish1]

Very interesting video that just came out from BRS on vibrant, this is their statement…it appears they talked to uncle and are putting a pause on sales..

That was a fair summary IMHO. Thanks for posting it!!

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Very interesting video that just came out from BRS on vibrant, this is their statement…it appears they talked to uwc and are putting a pause on sales..

He is unaware that there is a marine version of Algaefix. As far as I know, the only difference is the label, the contents are identical.

This is interesting. The label says "When used in salt water will not harm snails, clams, scallops, shrimp, anemones, sea cucumbers, feather dusters, coralline algae, soft corals, hard corals, and other invertebrates".

 

[Brad_95]

This is amazing. Great work!

 

[reefiniteasy]

post deleted. I was posting to a different thread and somehow it ended up here.