Turtle's Deep Blue Sea

[Katrina71]

Hey I did some reading. There was a production problem in 2014 with that particular heater. I'd replace it if it were mine.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Bought it this year, well after they fixed the problem. The problem was with the 300w heaters also. Did my research when I got it, might still get replaced tho.

 

[Zack K]

Everything has an active current going through it. Everything. Saltwater has a higher conductivity than other liquids. But that’s about my knowledge that I’m willing to share due to the fact that the rest is fuzzy as to wether or not it’s true. BUT a good friend @Brew12 deals with electricity and can help out here.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Yea, what I think is happening here is the heater is inducing a voltage on the volt meter. Like how a transformer works, one circuit inducing a voltage on another circuit. It means the heater isn't shielded very well, but isn't dumping a ton of electricity into the tank. It could still be affecting my fish and coral tho.

 

[Zack K]

Yea, what I think is happening here is the heater is inducing a voltage on the volt meter. Like how a transformer works, one circuit inducing a voltage on another circuit. It means the heater isn't shielded very well, but isn't dumping a ton of electricity into the tank. It could still be affecting my fish and coral tho.

Very true.

 

[Brew12]

Everything has an active current going through it. Everything. Saltwater has a higher conductivity than other liquids. But that’s about my knowledge that I’m willing to share due to the fact that the rest is fuzzy as to wether or not it’s true. BUT a good friend @Brew12 deals with electricity and can help out here.

Thanks for the invite!

Alright, power plant operator and automotive machanic knowledge getting put to use here... if we have voltage in the tank, but no amperage then it's induced voltage from some kind of magnetic interference. So, we checked the amps.
View attachment 637810

0.01mA to ground. Basically, nothing. Still have 48VAC. Why would we have 48VAC with no current going thru the tank? Because the heater is an electromagnet? It's inducing a voltage on the meter but not passing it thru the tank? I'm an operator, not an electrician. I write tickets on things that are broke and people come fix it. Lol.

You are on the right track. Odds are that what you are seeing is an induced voltage. Any time you have 2 conductors in proximity to each other, with relative motion between the electric fields in one of them, you will induce a voltage in the other. In the case of an aquarium, the power cord is one conductor, the water is the other, and the AC causes the relative motion. Even a cord run on the outside of an aquarium can induce a voltage inside the tank. You can also get some capacitively coupled voltage in your system. BTW... even DC motors are actually AC motors so will induce voltages in the tank that appear AC.
The current test you did is pretty good depending on the accuracy of the meter. Since your meter isn't "True RMS" I wouldn't trust it too much. As pointed out, a great plan is to install a ground probe. I also recommend running with a GFCI. I keep one of these for testing/trouble shooting.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Shock-Bust...-Single-to-Single-Yellow-GFCI-Adapter/1135923
You can start by plugging each power strip into it one at a time. If you have a ground probe installed it should trip if you have faulted equipment. If it does trip, you can plug a device into it one at a time and let it run for awhile. Its the best way to find and isolate problems.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Welcome to the Deep Blue Sea @Brew12, and thanks for the knowledge. My Dad taught me a lot about electricity growing up, then I learned DC stuff when I went to tech school for cars. Now that I'm am operator in a power plant, I have a better understanding on AC current, but nowhere near an electricians knowledge.

I'm going to Lowe's today to pick up a GFCI breaker for the circuit the tank is on. Fixing to find which one it is now. My house was built in 1979, and the only GFCI that's in here are the two outlets I put in the bathrooms when I moved in. I know that everything on that circuit after the outlet is also protected, but I'm not sure they are on the same circuit, and I'm pretty sure the bathrooms are near the end of the circuits as they are on the opposite side of the house from the pannel.

Ok, circuit 12 labeled "Den" is the right circuit. No bathrooms in the den, lol. It's a 20A breaker so I'll pick up a GFCI protected one in a little while.

 

[Brew12]

Welcome to the Deep Blue Sea @Brew12, and thanks for the knowledge. My Dad taught me a lot about electricity growing up, then I learned DC stuff when I went to tech school for cars. Now that I'm am operator in a power plant, I have a better understanding on AC current, but nowhere near an electricians knowledge.

I'm going to Lowe's today to pick up a GFCI breaker for the circuit the tank is on. Fixing to find which one it is now. My house was built in 1979, and the only GFCI that's in here are the two outlets I put in the bathrooms when I moved in. I know that everything on that circuit after the outlet is also protected, but I'm not sure they are on the same circuit, and I'm pretty sure the bathrooms are near the end of the circuits as they are on the opposite side of the house from the pannel.

Ok, circuit 12 labeled "Den" is the right circuit. No bathrooms in the den, lol. It's a 20A breaker so I'll pick up a GFCI protected one in a little while.

I love power distribution. I run an industrial substation that takes 500kV from our utility and we distribute it to different parts of the mill at 35kV. We have 980MVA of primary voltage transformers. Our peak 5 minute load tops out at around 320MVA though.

Instead of changing out the breaker, have you considered doing something like this? I run my tank all off one circuit so it lets me divide my loads between 2 GFCI's.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-gfci-installation.342874/

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I would put an outlet in there... super simple and I'd only have to kill circuit 12 and not the main breaker, but the tank is kinda directly in front of the outlet and it's full. Hindsight is 20/20, I should have put GFCI in before I filled the tank. The breaker will take all of 5 minutes to change out.

Talking about electricity at work, our generators put out 22.5KV and the main transformers step that up to 120KV. We have two units and they are capable of about 370MW each. Our station service is 4160V and we also have additional step downs from 480 for small motors to 277 and 120 lighting panels. I am one of the ones that does the racking on the old GE magne-blast 4160V breakers and arc flash absolutely terrifies me.

 

[Zack K]

And I thought dealing with 480v at work was bad[emoji13] You guys play with the big boy toys.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Yea, I hate it...

 

[sfin52]

Look like Marty and doc from back to the future.

 

[siggy]

Does your heater have a non-conductive sleeve?

Robbin I see you made a shocking discovery, I have one of those heaters and will have to check mine. Katrina is a sharp cookie, I was thinking the same thing about a titanium heater -my Finnex heater has a grounding prong and I would imagine it would serve to ground the tank, I was going to ask if you wore a space suit then POOF appears the alien.

arc flash absolutely terrifies me.

That means you're qualified!

And I thought dealing with 480v at work was bad

Just think, that's considered LOW VOLTAGE to those guys.

 

[siggy]

GE magne-blast 4160V breakers

Interesting name for a breaker

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Hahaha, yea the space suit is 100cal/cm3 arc flash gear. It's not guaranteed you won't end up in the burn center, an arc flash incident can heat the air up to 10,000°F+, but you'll more than likely live thru the arc flash.

I don't think this guy made it... no arc flash gear. If he did he wishes he didn't.

Anyway, on the way to Lowe's for a breaker!

 

[sfin52]

 

[sfin52]

That’s is scary. I can see why that scares you.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Interesting name for a breaker

Not a very comforting name...

 

[siggy]

Thanks

 

[Zack K]

Wow that was quite a boom.