Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

[oreo54]

It just hit me that I am pretty sure that Advance Aquarist did another paper from months 12-24 with those Phoenix bulbs. I have to go do something else right now, but I did search for a minute or two. If somebody has a link, please post it.

@aquavista99 - you can use all of those babies for another year.

Phoenix = Miracle Lamps? High PAR Maint & Low Spectral Decay @ 1 year?

OK, so the title is there to get all the light junkees to pay attention to this post. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a halide light junkee. I've read all the lighting and reflector articles and many of the threads. I started a few years ago with Ushio 10K DE's in a monster DIY hood...

forums.reefcentral.com

15 minutes of my life I won't get back.

See post #14

So roughly, all of these lamps are giving about 70% of the output they gave 14 months ago.

Assuming from my earlier measurement that these lamps (+reflector+ballast) are averaging 1400 PAR brand new, the 2 older lamps have retained 57% and 63% of their original output after more than 2 years.

So I'm seeing a 30% drom from the original PAR level in the first year, and about another 10% drop from the original level the second year. I'd say that's pretty close to what Al found...

New link..

Hello Al, long time no see...

Hello Al, been a long time since I have seen you at a WRS meeting. I bought a Quantum meter alot like the one you have and have been conducting a similar test, as well as a 'Red Tide' Radiospectrometer to see the spectrum shift. I have been comparing the outputs of pheonix bulbs running on a...

forums.reefcentral.com

 

[A. grandis]

Can any MH bulb be used on any electronic ballast as long as their wattage is the same and bulb type (single/double ended) matches pendant? Feel like I read awhile back that only specific bulbs and ballasts were compatible.

They can.
For the optimal performance though, to get the very best out of each bulb, the way to go is to follow the specs from manufacturers. The bulbs will show their qualities longer and the chances of damage will be diminished. Electronic ballasts aren't the best to run bulbs specifically when they are recommended by manufacturer to be used with magnetic ballasts. Most times electronic ballasts will make the bulbs to flicker and down perform. Hamilton bulbs are made to be used with their e-ballasts, for example. I prefer to run them with the recommended magnetic ballasts. They run way better IMO. Ushio and Radium always recommend to follow their specs. for magnetic ballasts, no e-ballasts! Many serious hobbyists also will tell you how the majority of e-ballasts are junk, by experience! I got tired of testing... Magnetic ballasts are more stable and the best IMHO.

 

[Matt1997]

Well I just posted all my metal halide bulbs on eBay not long ago. I have about 25 odyssea (I know odyssea is trash yada yada) dual ended metal halide bulbs. They have a very nice color and I have been using them for years on some very successful tanks. If interested feel free to PM me. I’m selling them cheap.

220 gallon reef lit by 72” odyssea metal halide and T5 unit. Tank was taken down in 2017 but I have cases of brand new bulbs.

 

[JCOLE]

I may get some valid blow back on this one man but I say shoot for 2 at least and aim for 3 years a bulb unless you see undeniable proof that the lighting is causing you issues

I got 3+ years out of an iwasaki overdriven on m-80s even. I made thread about it somewhere I'll see if I can dig it up.

Thanks Adam! Yeah, I was thinking of running them for atleast 1.5 years before changing. You have me thinking now. I will PAR test at a year and still let them ride if good.

 

[njreefkeeper]

They can.
For the optimal performance though, to get the very best out of each bulb, the way to go is to follow the specs from manufacturers. The bulbs will show their qualities longer and the chances of damage will be diminished. Electronic ballasts aren't the best to run bulbs specifically when they are recommended by manufacturer to be used with magnetic ballasts. Most times electronic ballasts will make the bulbs to flicker and down perform. Hamilton bulbs are made to be used with their e-ballasts, for example. I prefer to run them with the recommended magnetic ballasts. They run way better IMO. Ushio and Radium always recommend to follow their specs. for magnetic ballasts, no e-ballasts! Many serious hobbyists also will tell you how the majority of e-ballasts are junk, by experience! I got tired of testing... Magnetic ballasts are more stable and the best IMHO.

I run 3 Radium 250 watt bulbs on the same tank. The two on the ends are run on an old school M80 Bluewave dual ballast…the gold standard. The one in the middle is on a (no longer available) Galaxy select a watt ballast on the 250 watt hqi setting. There is absolutely no flicker whatsoever on the select a watt ballast. The color is spot on with no discernible difference whatsoever and par measurements are spot on with the m80’s. In fact, the Galaxy ballast fires up the bulb faster than the m80’s. On another tank I have a CoralVue select a watt ballast with a Radium 250 on the 250 hqi setting and the par is about 10% less than the Galaxy and M80 ballasts. The bulb on the CoralVue ballast is noticeably more blue to the eye and lacks the crisp white with blue tint that old school Radium users wax poetic over.

That said, most eballast a will not run the 250 radium like an m80 no matter what their settings are, but the Galaxy ballasts are hands down the best eballast I’ve ever used…and I’ve used quite a few.

 

[A. grandis]

One thing to keep in mind is that the life of the bulb is directly related to how dark the arc tube is when the bulb is off. I judge the age of the bulb also that way. When it starts to look gray it's getting old.
In regards to the light emitted, many bulbs will show some yellow at first and then the "real color" of the bulb will be emitted after certain hours of use. The spectrum and intensity also depends on the ballast. Most bulbs will change after a year or so, but the changes aren't the end of the world!! We need to understand that when we were "kids" (in the 90's I was in my 20s, but now I know I was just a kid! LOL!) the hobby had a very different vision that we have today. We were very serious about keeping the very best optimal spectrum and intensity over our tanks. Therefore we would avoid the minimum changes at all costs, and that meant changing the bulbs at least every year. So many articles about halides... the GOLDEN TIMES of reefing!!! We were so serious about our hobby back then! We had a responsibility to follow: the life of the organisms we were keeping. It wasn't only a simple hobby! Today, things like the changes in chemical parameters and spectrum aren't that important anymore in our "electronic literature", nor in videos (oh man... some of the videos are just so bad! LOL!!).
Anyways... all the above is just to say that metal halide lighting is very forgiving in so many aspects and the age of the bulbs will follow the same line of though. I do think that adaptation from LEDs to halides is a big step in many cases and need to be addressed cautiously, when so. Changing halide bulbs for halide bulbs also should be addressed carefully, depending on the age of the old bulb. Specially when using 400W or 1000W bulbs, or going one or two steps above in wattage, for example...

I've been very busy lately. I'm so sad with Radium coming to an end, but at the same time it's very satisfying to see this thread becoming somehow informative, gathering a bunch of halide lovers. Please grow those Acros! Feel free to post some seriously amazing pictures of Acros under halides here! And dogs too! LOL!

 

[jmichaelh7]

Best bet is getting ushio 14k. When I called last week they have 48 left (250w/SE). I bought 12 so they should still have a handful left. Give them a call soon or else it will be impossible to find the bulbs.

I prefer the ushio 14k honestly. Looks more white IMO.

I’m using the reefbrite 250w ballast .

What type of ballast are you using for your Ushio 14k moguls ? I plan on using the same ballast for these bulbs right after the Hamilton burn out. I am looking at Ushio spreadsheet and they have the 14k Ushio assigned to M53 ballast it made me wonder if the electronic ballast will do

 

[A. grandis]

I run 3 Radium 250 watt bulbs on the same tank. The two on the ends are run on an old school M80 Bluewave dual ballast…the gold standard. The one in the middle is on a (no longer available) Galaxy select a watt ballast on the 250 watt hqi setting. There is absolutely no flicker whatsoever on the select a watt ballast. The color is spot on with no discernible difference whatsoever and par measurements are spot on with the m80’s. In fact, the Galaxy ballast fires up the bulb faster than the m80’s. On another tank I have a CoralVue select a watt ballast with a Radium 250 on the 250 hqi setting and the par is about 10% less than the Galaxy and M80 ballasts. The bulb on the CoralVue ballast is noticeably more blue to the eye and lacks the crisp white with blue tint that old school Radium users wax poetic over.

That said, most eballast a will not run the 250 radium like an m80 no matter what their settings are, but the Galaxy ballasts are hands down the best eballast I’ve ever used…and I’ve used quite a few.

Oh yeah.. the Galaxy and Lumatek seem to be much better than other e-ballasts! That's for sure! I like my PFO, Blue line, and old Hamilton magnetic ballasts a lot!! Tried Luxcore, Coral Vue and such... thy work... the quality isn't as great! Chinese e-ballasts sold for the aquarium industry might have a nice "name", but they won't have the stability needed to run good bulbs in the long run. I can't speak for ReefBrite cause I've never used their gear yet, but heard many complaints and heard many people very happy with them, so... I've heard Tullio is now making magnetic ballasts though.

 

[A. grandis]

I’m using the reefbrite 250w ballast .

What type of ballast are you using for your Ushio 14k moguls ? I plan on using the same ballast for these bulbs right after the Hamilton burn out. I am looking at Ushio spreadsheet and they have the 14k Ushio assigned to M53 ballast it made me wonder if the electronic ballast will do

Ushio 250W Aqualite specs is M58.
They will run with e-ballasts, yes, but not recommended by manufacturer.

Here is an interesting article for those who want to understand more about metal halides:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

 

[njreefkeeper]

I went on Radium’s website. Although the 250 watt bulb is labeled as being phased out, apparently the 400 watt version is listed as active so for anyone running the 400’s, you’re not out of luck just yet.

 

[A. grandis]

I went on Radium’s website. Although the 250 watt bulb is labeled as being phased out, apparently the 400 watt version is listed as active so for anyone running the 400’s, you’re not out of luck just yet.

They still have some of the 400W bulbs there, but they told me on the email that the 400W will also be phased out when their stock is sold out. Unfortunately.

 

[jda]

There is an easy way to think about ballasts - if a bulb is spec'd to a certain one, then it is more optimal to stick with it. If not, then pay attention to pulse vs. probe start and use whatever you want.

Something like m80, m81, HPS, etc. will drive a spec bulb more to spec. Otherwise, it just does not matter a ton.

Also remember that comparing ballasts has been a bit of a fools errand. Most of the time, somebody had a magnetic ballast as old as their kids who are now driving and comparing it with their brand new electronic ballast. All ballasts lose a bit over time. I have brand new in the box AquaMedic cubes and even some NIB PFO Dual m80 and they will output a bit more than my 10+ year old ones, but not enough that lowering the light or running them an extra 30 minutes would not make up for. I see all of this as a rounding error... but changing specs like HQI to regular MH is NOT a rounding error.

Electronic ballasts will fire any bulb - probe or pulse start (that I know of). They often can drive many different wattages of bulbs, which can be great. ...like if you decide that you don't need 400w bulbs (many do not), then you can just order 250w next time and turn the knob.

 

[Bpb]

I greatly favored my lumatek ballasts over the m80 and m59 predecessors I used. I was still getting excessive amounts of par and the spectrum was visually just as pleasing to the eye, but without the 60hz hum and the lumateks were cool to the touch. The magnetic ballasts were so hot you could feel the heat radiating off of them from some distance away, almost too warm to touch. That always bothered me. But…I will admit, “adequate” performance with all of its many advantages otherwise is and will likely always be preferable to me over “optimal” with a whole host of setbacks along side of that negligible performance improvement

 

[SpSDrew]

I did order some of the ebay marine color bulbs just for kicks so Ill use the parwise and so some comparisons when they arrive. I am not dead set on Hamilton being of the most quality bulb either as I have had 2 now explode on the inside after a few weeks of use.

 

[SpSDrew]

My Favorite part of halides ? Best unedited pictures of corals true colors. (14k Hamilton)

SC orange passion colony I took last night. Click on image for higher quality resolution.

 

[jmichaelh7]

My Favorite part of halides ? Best unedited pictures of corals true colors. (14k Hamilton)

SC orange passion colony I took last night. Click on image for higher quality resolution.

that is the look , not to blue , not too white , but right in the middle ...

 

[spsick]

My Favorite part of halides ? Best unedited pictures of corals true colors. (14k Hamilton)

SC orange passion colony I took last night. Click on image for higher quality resolution.

Are there not LEDs in the reflection there?

 

[SpSDrew]

Are there not LEDs in the reflection there?

Nope, that's the halide bulb reflection you are seeing. I do have reefbrite Strips but they turn off with my "photo button" for top down pictures.

 

[Crustaceon]

I know LEDs have progressed and can get the job done, but I feel like there are still major problems with running them and a lot of it is the guesswork in finding a good setting and the inability of many LED fixtures to hit those right spectrums out of the box unless you have Geordi La Forge's visor and can detect different spectrums. I'll bet most reefers here aren't running their leds at 100% power, but that's how things used to be for t5 and MH. We had a MUCH better idea of how high to hang those fixtures and what bulbs to use to achieve a "ballpark" proper par amount for learning the hard way. There was a general consensus. Now with LEDs, you're expected to buy or at least rent a PAR meter to have the slightest clue how to set your light up, which is expensive. That's an additional cost in this already expensive hobby. We need a non-mysterious plug-n-play lighting option and it makes me sad to think of losing MH and eventually T5ho because they're such great lighting options.

 

[Justdrew]

Has anyone ever tried the $20 Marine color bulbs from Ebay? Debating ordering one to compare par/spectrum.

I purchased the DE 250W 20K bulb. It looked very white for a 20K bulb. I couldn't run them side by side, but I swapped an old Phoenix bulb back and forth and they were very similar.