Old tank syndrome is vanquished in reefing now

[brandon429]

I 100% agree

everything I type is compensation for not being able to do that.

after a few mos of test hands off, my glass starts yellowing, gha starts on the glass...eutrophication. that one from the video just doesn't head down the path, and many large tanks can pull it off as well those will always be gems in the hobby no doubt.

 

[brandon429]

Build Thread - Cook's 105 Planet Aquariums Crystaline Reef - 48x20

Thanks for the information it a good summary for reference without having to read through the big post. I couldn't read you replies though, I was too busy taking the tank apart. :) I didn't just go for it first thing, I had tested the GHA removal method several months with good results. The...

www.reef2reef.com

That is a literal and direct example of eutrophication interruption by force not by coaxing and wait. that's a huge amount of rocks.

anyone who rinses sand for eleven hours is captain morgan as far as I'm concerned. there's resolve and then there's resolve on file.

oligotrophic condition earned. taken.

there is no pill, doser or additive that can do that. it's on file I tried to give him a fluconazole out...I thought surely nobody with a reef that big is fed up. that was incorrect assumpt

 

[bscott]

after years and years of using RODI for my aquarium and hearing complaints at home that the fish have better water than what we humans drink, I’ve installed a RO drinking water system under the sink and I’ll have to say I’m quite happy with it.

those pics are scary!

ReeferBud...i have a home RO system under my sink...what are your thoughts of using that for my Tank? I am not thrilled about the thought of adding another one. Thanks.

 

[ReeferBud]

ReeferBud...i have a home RO system under my sink...what are your thoughts of using that for my Tank? I am not thrilled about the thought of adding another one. Thanks.

I think it should be fine as long as you don’t have any of the cartridges that add minerals or other things back to the water. Only downside is that it would not be RODI (no de-inonization) although it would be pretty easy to buy a few small valves and tees and add the DI cartridge for when you want to make fish tank water

 

[brandon429]

Public Service announcement:


give us some jacked up tanks to clean, we want work to log.

 

[brandon429]

Storm damage eutrophication interrupt, as beautiful as can be seen:

A week without power - Recoverable?

So, tank went without power for a week following hurricane Ida. There was no flow(obviously) and temps hit 85-86 during the day. I came back to the city to rescue my 2 clowns who are currently living in a 5 gallon bucket with a bubbler. Basically my question is: what are my options from here...

www.reef2reef.com

his work example is pure gold. take any storm-ravaged 260 gallon reef and do the exact same thing that nano just did

 

[LRT]

the cause of old tank syndrome is compounding whole waste particles that blanket the interstitial sand grain zones and plug up the channels in live rocks. Old tank syndrome is the gradual reduction of open, high flow contact reef tank surface area via compounding waste and invasion blanketing. Dense mats of oxygen sapping aerobes capitalize on the waste as substrate, adding waste acids into a system that prefers stable and high pH in the eights

Ever rinsed your Ocean Rock?

Just curious.

www.reef2reef.com

see that post, that's undoing of Old Tank Syndrome

free. no dosers no testing required.

here's another, good enough to be elevated to page one status for copy

A week without power - Recoverable?

So, tank went without power for a week following hurricane Ida. There was no flow(obviously) and temps hit 85-86 during the day. I came back to the city to rescue my 2 clowns who are currently living in a 5 gallon bucket with a bubbler. Basically my question is: what are my options from here...

www.reef2reef.com

We control OTS now, it doesn’t creep by surprise in any reef tank, we can reverse the condition by rip cleaning and mass export.

fewer losses, start overs, coral and tank losses drop now that we know OTS is a matter of opt in/ opt out but not requisite.

we now know how to keep reef tanks into indefinite biological lifespan where a set of rocks never runs out of ability.


it has to do with backflushing waste out of a system vs following old rules saying to keep it.

anyone familiar with Paul B’s old reef tank has seen myriad examples of backflushing and ejection of waste compared to hands off / sink bed reefs


my own testing too identified simple tank waste as the causative and now pico reefs live indefinitely 20 yrs + packed to the hilt, free of coral disease.




high waste storage= ots happens one day. Mass added to a breakpoint and a clogging point.

low waste storage decent flow rate as an average= cannot develop ots and all bacterial systems self manage such that you don’t have to buy more to help it age.

removing slough means natural bacteria handle things forever.

Replace what you were going to spend on a tank additive this weekend with caloric burning due to manual tank cleaning and you are beating old tank syndrome. since the bottled doser didn’t remove whole waste, it would have added to Ots loading vs export it as we did in the top two examples of skip cycle cleaning.

I'm not really sure how I missed this one but thought it was kind of important to note. Not only did I put my old rock through boot camp by taking it out of system, scrubbing, cleaning and rinsing for at least a couple months.
Once I had it to what I thought was a proper cure. Algae removed, coraline, feather dusters, hitchiker corals growing in it place.
I actually took exact rock from linked thread and instacycled my current shroom lagoon with it. I didnt get 24 hr pictures with it fully stocked. I did manage to snag some at 48 hrs. It was a very stressful event. House was tore apart for months with tank shipping delays. Mock system on opposite wall holding corals in dark period for 5 days. It had to be done. Really wish I snagged more pictures for documentation.

 

[brandon429]

I like to see this thread as a collection of mighty clean reefs, that above belongs in the mix!

 

[LRT]

I like to see this thread as a collection of mighty clean reefs, that above belongs in the mix!

Thanks man. So Dan at gulfliverock.com told me he pulled my rock from a spot with 18-25 yr growth. It did comes with tons of goodies but also pretty much every strain of good and bad algae known to man and some probably not yet known haha.
Getting back to scrubbing and cleaning the rock though. Its really nothing I did new but remembered from back in the day and just kind of got back to.
In the old days when my lfs was importing rock they would literally take it out back a power blast it throughout the "cure" process. When I first seen them do it to a batch of tonga rock I ordered i almost had a heart attack but that was common practice at least for them at the time. So I just kind of copied them on that.
You should have seen the stuff that came out of the rock though. Fossils is best way to describe it. Def not anything that had been introduced to my 1.5 yr old system at the time.
My rock needed exactly that. Its almost like brand new again.
Not to mention the drastic elimination of nutrients that where removed throughout this process. I dont have an issue controlling nutrients anymore. They kinda sit where I want them

Here's the rock and tank today.

 

[Paul B]

I like to see this thread as a collection of mighty clean reefs, that above belongs in the mix!

That leaves out my tank.

Actually my rock is probably pretty clean now because almost 4 years ago when I moved here I had to take my tank apart and put everything, including rocks, gravel, water corals and fish into vats for the 90 minute ride here.

I wanted to rinse my rocks in the sea but a State Trooper put an end to that so all I could do was swish it in a bucket of old take water.
My old gravel was totally filthy as it was in the same place for 40 years on top of a reverse undergravel filter. But even after all that time, I had no problems except my nitrates were always very high. Like 60. ;Wideyed

Like Brandon said, I do clean my gravel where I can reach with a diatom filter once or twice a year but my tank is totally filled so there are very few places I can actually clean any more.

I am 72 years old so myself and my tank will not last another 50 years and I won't have to worry about it and I doubt they will let me bring it to a nursing home if I ever get to one. ;Nailbiting

 

[brandon429]

Truly wonderful tank Paul! I also use your posted work examples to show people don’t get ocd over nitrate

if it’s fifteen ppm, sssss ok


if it’s 90 ppm, ssss ok


I have no idea what my own nitrates nor will I ever most likely, because whatever they are, totally ok by me.

 

[brandon429]

Shadow_k completed this eutrophication arrest two days ago via private message work, he counted the # of rinses it took to de-filthify/ de age his sand, nobody had counted # of rinsed before and can tie it now into outcome tracking we will begin.



Shadows handling of the tank, literally, belongs directly here as a work example because force was used to reinstate the oligotrophic condition, no dosers and no animals used, and no bottle bac. The force of a tap water storm undoes eutrophication overnite. Zero wait. Total control



Shadow_k

for the win, a shocking rip clean. Shocking command
Rinsed the sand over 75 times back to clean.


JBJ 20 gallon AIO dealing with a bad cyano/Dino back and forth for 4 months.I’ve tried chemicals, natural ways could not get rid of it.

here is my journey for my easy rip clean

Draining the tank after removing all the inverts , fish and corals.

Put my rocks in a bucket to swish around/scrub I did not take a picture of the scrubbing of the rock.

tank cleaned out and rinsed with RODI water

Now I tackled the sand this is My sand after 1 rinse

rinse number 75 and yes I counted haha

Rinse 120 crystal clear water mixed it with my hand and water stayed clear.

My camera doesn’t do this tank justice it’s crystal clear !


(adding in an all white shot, the most revealing shot in reefing, hides nothing, shows complete skip cycle clarity here)

two weeks later

see how the zoanthids are beginning to open now vs the chemical mixture prior, irritants vs clean oligotrophic reef conditions. Rip cleans make tanks hungry for feed, and eventual waste storage again in the bedded setups.


thank you Shadow_k for your work, pics, and smashing thorough rinse job, no bottle bac used here whatsoever. Complete skip cycle rip clean complete.

Future massing of the invasion has 100% less fuel waste to capitalize on and can be easily siphoned out in follow up work


Most reef aquariums assembled from stores, like mine, are not teeming sandbeds of heterogeneity they’re simple grains and mud. The rinse steps above represent 99.999% of the reef tanks on the forum, made from store bought materials, and the rinsed material above we can see didn’t have floating pods and worms to concern over it had grains, mud, and cyano and now it has grains, no mud and perfect clarity. Pods can easily be bought and stocked from algen now if wanted. Adding them in the clean condition readies the tank for future battles.

 

[Paul B]

It is a beautiful day here on Long Island now so if I get ambitious I will go and collect some water.

It's a little cold so I don't think I will jump in.

 

[brandon429]

if I lived or vacationed there, I'd find a way to extract ocean pods / filter them out of something with a fish net somehow and cart them back home in two or three water bottles. if I could have anything from your region in my tank right at this moment it be three dasani containers of wigglers. gammarids.

 

[Paul B]

I can't collect to many of these here in my new home even though I am surrounded by water. You really need a muddy, rocky bay for these

 

[brandon429]

Stansreef, wonderful eutrophication arrest on nano system


copied from the peroxide thread:

Been battling dinos, cyano, green hair algae, etc. on my Fluval Evo13.5 for months now. Chasing nutrients, different chemical treatments, urchins, snails, etc. with no lasting results! Was at my wits end, came across this thread and thought why not rip and treat!

Read through the various posts and techniques for sand cleaning and hydrogen sprays and came up with a game plan.

Pulled all my coral frags first, scrubbed them with a toothbrush dipped in h2o2 (avoiding fleshy areas). Dipped in RO, then tank water, then placed in a 5 gallon bucket with tank water and a heater. Put fish in a separate 5 gallon bucket with heater.

Pulled all rocks, scrubbed down all areas hard with a toothbrush again being sure to avoid zoas. Rinsed/dunked the rocks numerous times in salt water to get rid of debris. Then sprayed the rocks with 3% h2o2 and let sit for 4 mins. Dipped in RO then salt water before placing back in tank (after sand treatment).

Kept the rocks moist with saltwater misting while I worked on the sand. Pulled all the sand and rinsed with cold tap water numerous times in another 5 gallon bucket in the sink. Kept tap rinsing until water was crystal clear (lost count of rinses). Rinsed with RO a final time before placing back in tank.

Placed the rocks back in, refilled with water, added the fish and corals back! Corals are still ticked off but I they'll pull through. 2 days after rinse and I'm very pleased! Just waiting for zoas to open up fully.

A couple before and after pics shows the story! Just need to rearrange rocks and some corals in the future. Thanks for the thread @brandon429





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look at this rip clean surgery on a cracked tank scenario / have to act fast no preps, tank broke middle of night

EMERGENCY - Help! 40 breeder leaked all over floor

I woke up at 2am to use the bathroom and heard the sound of water splashing. I went to look in my living room in horror and disbelief. Then I saw it, half the water gone! I think the stupid hob protein skimmer overflowed, because I dont see any cracks in the tank. But I had to drain the whole...

www.reef2reef.com

that was to emergency move without cycling, side benefit: complete de-aging of the tank for months of headache free running

 

[Paul B]

There is a place near here in Montauk which is the most eastern part of Long Island and almost the US. There is a place there that used to be used by fishermen to store their live flounders, fluke, lobsters, crabs etc. The place is composed of huge, outdoor "Vats" about 30' across and 4' deep.

The last time I was there those "tanks" were just full of amphipods about 3/16th inch that were swimming around the things in masse. Millions of them but I didn't have a net or any way to bring them home.

The owner didn't even know what they were and I told him they are more valuable then his fish.

I am not sure if the place is still open but the next time I go there, I will bring supplies and try to talk him into selling them.

Actually, I just did Google Earth and found the place. It looks like it is still there.

Those seawater tanks are filled with large amphipods swimming around like they have nothing else to do.

 

[brandon429]

.

 

[Fishingman047901]

My reef was in my last house without being moved for 40 years. No problems but I did stir up the gravel yearly with a diatom filter.
Here my Son N Law is lifting up the UG filter plate for the move here. That is after 40 years. A lot of mud under there but I use a reverse undergravel filter so it was constantly airated. If it were not for that set up, that mud would have crashed my system long ago.

If you don't run a reverse UG filter, and I know no one does so my tank is bulletproof, (because people just don't know any better) then you better clean out that mud.

Hi Paul I know this is an old thread but if you can indulge me I'd really appreciate it. I am anticipating a full rip of a 20+ yr tank with a DSB. My question is if I install an undergravel filter with reverse flow, how do I prevent all of my sand (crushed coral actually) from falling through the cracks and completely filling and clogging the filter? Did you use a screen over it and wouldn't that clog as well?! What size reverse powerheads should I use?
Aaarrrgggghhh!!?!
So Paul B., can you help? I have come to believe that my DSB is a potential death trap if disturbed. I can't keep any corals successfully except GSP and pulsing xenia.
Thanks for any help and advice you can give in advance.

 

[brandon429]

I’m interested to see his reply. Keeping the next iteration of sandbed oxygenated top and bottom will stop that risk I’ll bet.