Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

[brandon429]

Your tank doesn't look imbalanced at all

It's prudent while you are redoing fish protocols to start clean. This is the direct preventative to old tank syndrome, flushing waste that selects for the eutrophic/plant growth all over the DT system

Your tank wasn't in any bad standing, removing this resets it in storage age it won't harm your fine live rock and side supports for sure. Kicking up clouding somewhere is the risk

Rinse rocks harshly in saltwater to jet out their waste, no harm.
People have swished them twisting in a bucket of saltwater
The castings that come off remark on our flow, the live rock diversity etc.
zoos have to backflush giant aquarium filters to keep them efficient
backflushing live rock in clean saltwater boosts the heck out of lr


You'll be putting back rocks with increased surface area, less internal acid production (detritus breakdown by bac is hydrogen donator) and much better oxygen penetration into the rock - better biofiltration because you rinsed, not because we had to dose or reseed. We clear access for your ever present bac= gold. I love how the method is free, a repeating order of ops and same outcome given tight control over clouding during reassembly. Your willingness and documentation is very helpful for pattern watch
B

*some of those bugs and fine diversity are in your rocks and will remain after swishing. They're associated with your reef and juvenile stages are coral feed...a keen eye won't see your tank as imbalanced

They favor the sandbed agreed, and so does waste. Tackling the waste hammers obviously live sand animals but they come back ad infinitum off the live rock, just in less numbers. This is a rare disassembly opportunity much like a home move where being free of waste up front allows future access or simpler siphoning as guiding. The wheels are off the car and it's on lifts let's just hit the diffs and xfer case while there ha nice

 

[CoralClasher]

I have been stirring the sand daily and I’m not afraid of a dust cloud. Would I be better off just making a huge dust storm and filter it out with Diatom filters? Four months ago I did blast rinse the sand and shook the rocks. I’m not afraid of the work to pull everything and rinsing but trying to make all new water will be tough.

 

[brandon429]

That's been largely reduced with the prior work agreed, Paul B does that and then filters it out with the diatom filters. We don't really do that kind of work but would still enjoy any access documentation

 

[CoralClasher]

I will say I’m leaning towards the rip clean because of the Dino and all of things I’ve tried to get rid of them and new water sounds great but I know large WC can make them bloom so maybe just filtering is better for my situation?

 

[CoralClasher]

My tank is not having problems currently the Ich was me not QT a copper band butterfly. He was only in the DT for a week and I pulled all the fish.

 

[CoralClasher]

The method of making a dust storm and filtering seem like a long battle! last night I blasted half of the sand big could for about an hour then cleared up. This morning nutrients stayed the same ALK dropped just a little all the corals seem fine.

 

[brandon429]

theyre getting fed marine snow thats for sure!

 

[CoralClasher]

The corals didn’t mind it. If that detritus is food maybe I need some cucumbers or something to eat it?

 

[brandon429]

they wont really reduce it; no motile animals we can see make detritus go away by consumption, they just digest portions of it and then excrete more whole waste.

*busy animals will do it though, I had a gentleman show me in a drop test video what a single diamond goby can do for an unrinsed bed; that rascal fish made his unrinsed bed pass a drop test as if he'd taken it apart
so its not by eating, those fish contribute to detritus too but they're so busy sifting/actually turning over sand violently, that the detritus is cast into suspension and removed via skimmers / mech filters etc.

starfish, crabs, worms, pods, cucs, all contribute to detrital loading in a bed they dont reduce it. They do turnover grains (slowly) as they feed and move through the sand but they're eating and pooping detritus just the same. it takes a busy animal or a man hand lol to clear that sand.

 

[CoralClasher]

Bristle worms and some snails poop is almost liquid. I don’t know what is pooping this much and what are they eating to make this much detritus. Maybe Dino has something to do with it?

 

[brandon429]

I really think yours isn't invasive dinos unless you've been detailing surfaces really well to prevent the snot bubble string morphology

Things seem in good balance there looking at tank details to the side of the detritus clouding, whether or not you remove it all at once or in steps or never is basically a matter of how you want those extra nutrient stores factored into your overall design

Many old schoolers will agree it's not bad, the only reason we're OCD about it here is because that's why we have only lost two gobies in thirty pages of full tank flips. Being detailed against detritus confers the lowest tank invasion food source and risk, and being detailed with detritus handling makes every tank move safe. Detritus brings in variability in outcome. Whether that's good or bad depends, but outcomes vary when allowing detritus and outcomes get incredibly consistent when we exclude it, we can show with 100% evident patterning.

 

[CoralClasher]

I’m still getting over Dino and if a rip clean would help skip the Cyano stage I really should just do it now without fish. I haven’t seen a Dino bloom on the rocks or sand in months but if I put anything new in Dino will find it. I hung a filter pad this morning and I just confirmed Dino.

 

[brandon429]

Alexreefer on here in prior pages wasn't able to fully beat dinos with aggressive water/sand changes he had to add in probiotics/waste digesting type bottle bac + cleaning to get them under control his work thread in the emergency forum shows. the super clean method is really good at cyano control and preventing organic stores for sure. While I do not think assertive sand and water changes cause or flare up dinos existing in the system, they may or may not help beat them. dinos are a real challenge agreed, any customization you'd make to the method trying to anticipate their comeback is warranted, the stuff is mean. Alex has wrestled them for 10 + pages my goodness here's his very admirable dedication in motion:

Ready to throw in the towel from Dinos

let the record reflect the average reefer quits by page 5 but not Alex. what a joy to watch your persistence. Thank you very much.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[CoralClasher]

Yes bacteria rules the world!! I used that bacteria method and that was the last time I seen Dino. Well besides now on that filter pad. Maybe I should try another round? Would you do a rip clean before or after the bacteria bloom? I did three rounds back to back then got another live sand activator.

 

[brandon429]

its always a guess on those bad boys but if it was my tank Id do a full cloudless cleaning just simply so the target biomass is reduced. we're exporting 90% or better of the offenders all in one pass, I like how treatments to the clean condition tank amplify the treatment method without having to add more: its working on way less target. Ive always guessed/no proof that water changes disturb waste stores and that quick upwelling event from pouring water back in feeds them as a boost. I know there are other theories about ties to water changes but here we don't really see a thorough cleaning cause anything, it just may or may not help with dinos.

Ive enjoyed putting my own reef through most of the harshest work here while its running perfectly...no need to drain it for half an hour to offend but we do it anyway to keep fresh how tough these reefs are. it only seems harsh to my tank, but resetting the last year's feed waste back to zero simply makes the system so hungry for new feed (to fill in the cracks with waste this coming 2020) that my coral growth becomes problematically boosted after rip cleans. Im having to constantly frag and either trade or throw away mass due to the reuptake hunger from the system and the cleanliness to support some pretty decent feeding schedules.

you get to resume mass feeding with a super clean system, helps corals to be in positive mass sequence when being attacked by dinos/stronger more defensive.

 

[Oreefteca]

I'm quite lucky to find this forum and this specific topic on the other hand quite unlucky or fool to be convinced with the lies of Red Sea which says "No rinsing required" on top of their Reef Base Fiji Pink LiveSand package. It was 5 days ago when I filled my brand new Red Sea Nano Max with the live sand and waited for nasty cloudiness to go away. This morning I realized the truth that it won't go away rather it will be a major preparation for many unnamed disasters.

So drained the whole tank and sand too. However this sand is so fine grained that even after rinsing it for an hour as batches I can't have any clear water. Dilemma is that I am actually migrating from a smaller tank to this one and I have a male Melanurus Wrasse which used to sleep in the sand bed that I am having with my current tank.

Options that I am seeing at the moment are:

1) Go with bare bottom and have some sort of container with sand for my wrasse
2) Compromise with the depth of the sand and have some sort of depth with this live sand (after rinsing it even more) and hope for the best.
3) Go for more coarsed sand like 1-2mm a dry one and hope for the best after rinsing it for a while too.
4) Go with the fewer amount of sand from the current one which is undisturbed like last 2 years which I'm scared to find out what health status it is in at the moment.

Current tank is quite healthy and aged one the only reason is that I want to enlarge the size of it and that's why I have invested to a Red Sea Nano tank. Would be really appreciated if I could get some help from you nice people.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you for posting and welcome!
In my opinion the handy portions from this thread applied to your tank are that your final choices with your sand are for visual preference there is no risk in handling the bacteria/sand rougly or removing sand, or changing it out.

working in sections just prolongs the issues and the bacteria in sand aren't a big deal, so its my vote you'd remove the current sand before upgrading and replace it with rinsed caribsea or something we know to tolerate wrasse diving with no clouds. I hate to waste your current sand, but if it can't be made cloudless then its just extending the time to which you'd enjoy your reef.

whether or not I used a sectioned area for that new sand, or the whole tank bottom, is based on access.

I could easily access a 50 gallon setup for total cleaning of a full tank sandbed by draining water off into a brute trash can (then take it apart, clean sand, put back, put back water)

but on a much larger reef where takedown cleaning isn't practical its likely better to have the sectioned portion of sand just so you have final control of all waste stores in the system vs the classic sandbed which stores up wastes until there is a problem/ nothing preventative

 

[brandon429]

hey also, after you start totally clean with cloudless new sand, look how these guys maintain the standard sand-on-bottom setup vs letting it go cloudy

" MY WHITE SAND METHOD "

thanks again i know what type im getting next lol Im usually on RC and havent been around R2R much but i think im going to start looking around the site more:) Thats right before i forget to ask ive found the petco type of gardener on #bay (dont know if i can use the name on here yet?) anyone...

www.reef2reef.com

they're stick-stirring it routinely to cast up items, plus an active wrasse does this too daily. start mega clean then it will run great and be enjoyable

* I would like to thank Nanareefer from 5 years ago for the motivation to start and run this thread and collect all the examples of tank full access. I sure hope those diatoms finally cleared up
B

 

[Oreefteca]

hey also, after you start totally clean with cloudless new sand, look how these guys maintain the standard sand-on-bottom setup vs letting it go cloudy

" MY WHITE SAND METHOD "

thanks again i know what type im getting next lol Im usually on RC and havent been around R2R much but i think im going to start looking around the site more:) Thats right before i forget to ask ive found the petco type of gardener on #bay (dont know if i can use the name on here yet?) anyone...

www.reef2reef.com

they're stick-stirring it routinely to cast up items, plus an active wrasse does this too daily. start mega clean then it will run great and be enjoyable

* I would like to thank Nanareefer from 5 years ago for the motivation to start and run this thread and collect all the examples of tank full access. I sure hope those diatoms finally cleared up
B

Thanks a lot for your answer. Makes sense actually. LFS is getting opened tomorrow, I'll get the Caribsea and hopefully start super clean.

 

[Oreefteca]

Thanks a lot for your answer. Makes sense actually. LFS is getting opened tomorrow, I'll get the Caribsea and hopefully start super clean.

I would like to give some feedback. The next day as I said, I went to the LFS and guy still insisted that water will be cleared only if I would have waited a bit more. I suggestively smiled and got 2 batches of Caribsea Live Sand 2,7kg. First thing I've noticed that it's much more coarsed compared to Red Sea. I've rinsed it approximately 10 minutes with RO water. Then followed wise suggestion of my wife and poured 80 liters gently in another 10-15 minutes. And Voila! No cloudiness, nothing but clear water. Next day I have migrated the smaller one to the new aquarium, since then no loss or anything bad happened; thank god and nice people that commented to this topic.

Have a great year!