New Tank Syndrome Blues. Someone please help me.

[phildoingthings]

Hello all.

I am about 3 years into this hobby. Started with a 20gal Aqueon I got off Craigslist, and last September upgraded to a brand new RSR 250. I decided to start it with dry rock so I could glue my scape together and make what I wanted opposed to the much more expensive live rock option. Now it being February I have a few problems….
The tank cycled with no issues. I have my original 3 tank members from the start of this hobby still going strong (2 clowns and bangai cardi), as well as some random inverts. However my algae is completely out of control. It seems that almost overnight my scape is completely covered in algae and I want to quit the hobby. I blow down the rocks every day and sift out the debris with a net as best I can. I even scrubbed the few rocks that I have that aren’t glued together in a 5 gallon bucket last water change (Sunday) but already the film of algae is returning.

I had a beautiful purple tang that was added about 3 weeks ago who caught Ich, and I put him into QT with copper immediately and he only made it about 5 days in there until he had a random seizure when I went to feed him and he died overnight. I assume he caught ich from the stress of me blowing down the rocks and scrubbing every day but again I could be wrong I’ve never had a fish get Ich before.

I guess my issue is why why why will the algae not stay at bay? Maybe I have misdiagnosed what kind of algae it is? Do I not have enough good bacteria established to fight it? I also have a few small pieces of coral that have been doing well, and an anemone that is thriving so I don’t think it’s a water quality issue.

I just want this to stop and I’m about ready to just bust the tank down and sell it. I’ve had it at this point and I just want help from someone who knows more than I.

Parameter are all in proper range, temp constant 77.5-78 °F, Salinity 1.024-1.025

running only 2 AI Prime 16HD’s (underpowered for my tank size apparently)
And I run 2 MP40s on the back walls next to the overflow at about 10-20% speed(variable)


Please. Help.

 

[phildoingthings]

Def looks like Dino’s unfortunately and that strain is toxic… I had those a couple months back and they took out my snails and a couple corals rrrrr… get a Hannah checker for po4 and nitrate or at least sailfert for nitrate… api isn’t gonna give correct readings and like mentioned get your nitrate and po4 up some.. once you beat the Dino’s then replenish your cuc to take care of the hair algae etc.. a uv sterilizer will help take them Dino’s out!

WHat is your thoughts on DinoX?

 

[Troylee]

WHat is your thoughts on DinoX?

I’ve never used it personally and if I did that would be a last resort… I’ve used h202 in the past with great results but different strains act differently to each treatment.. I’d say start with h202 and dose 1ml per 10 gallons of water every day for 5 days when your lights go off if you wanna start experimenting… if that doesn’t work try uv… you can also dose silicates to get some diatom growth and have those out compete the Dino’s.. last resort would be Dino x for me..

 

[Tathamet]

I’ve never used it personally and if I did that would be a last resort… I’ve used h202 in the past with great results but different strains act differently to each treatment.. I’d say start with h202 and dose 1ml per 10 gallons of water every day for 5 days when your lights go off if you wanna start experimenting… if that doesn’t work try uv… you can also dose silicates to get some diatom growth and have those out compete the Dino’s.. last resort would be Dino x for me..

I agree with this. I always tend to get Dino’s (specifically ostreopsis) at one point or another on a new dry rock tank and the only thing that worked consistently for me was throwing a uv sterilizer in the tank for a week or two which is known to kill that species since it goes water borne at night. Once gone and nutrients are stabilized I don’t seem to get the Issue again.

I’ve found h202 helped to slow it down but I could never fully get rid of the Dino’s with it.

As for a few more clean up crew options I’d recommend some ceriths, trochus and a conch (tiger or strawberry conch as they stay smaller). I didn’t realize how much conchs loved to eat Dinos until I got one. Those things are bulldozers when is comes to that stuff lol.

edit: dosing silicates also did wonders for taking over the tank with diotoms once the Dino’s were cleared and stopping other unwanted things from taking hold. My pod population always skyrockets after dosing it too. Clean up crew love it as well.

 

[Aquanic]

Hello thank you for responding sorry for the late reply....
Cleanup crew as of today is:
10 Blue Leg Hermits
12 Astrea Snails
2 Emerald Crabs
7 Nassarius Snails

Im using APi test kits and my Nitrate is 0 as well as Phosphate 0

I will attach photos in this reply of the rocks as they are now and eep in mind they were scrubbed on Sunday so it's not as bad as it was but here we go...

Photos Attached in reply...
Water source meaning for RO/DI? or Salt I use to mix? I use a 1 month old BRS 75GPD RO/DI system with Red Sea Salt (black bucket). I live on Long Island so we fortunately have some of the best quality tap water in the US so I doubt its my RO/DI water

Full parameters are as follows:
Temp.: 77.5-78 F
Salinity: 1.024-1.025
pH: 8
Nitrate: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0


Thanks for the input....As far as filtration I have a simplicity 240DC Protein Skimmer, and a RS Reef Mat 500, I also keep 3 large seeded bio balls in my sump, mainly used for QT purposes. I posted my paramters above.


I hope not! I have photos attached let me hear what you think. Phosphate and Nitrate both tested at 0 on APi test kits

Just because you have 0 nitrate and phosphate doesn’t mean it isn’t present in the system. It could just mean it’s all being consumed by the algae. BRS did a good video about it. And if that was the case, you’d still want to limit your nutrient input, but by the pictures, it looks to me like you’re going through a phase. In my previous experience, trying to battle something you don’t know what it is or how to truely battle it and not just solve the symptoms usually makes it take longer. Sometimes the fastest but most annoying thing to do is just wait it out and let your tank get rid of it naturally. A lot of times something is out of balance and messing with stuff more will keep it out of balance, but if you let it find its own balancing point, on its own, your tank will be more stable. I recommend waiting atleast 2 months of not doing any chemicals and treating with some sort of clean-up crew. I had a really green tank for months when after it cycled and tried everything to get rid of it. Then I focused on stability and the tank was crystal clear 2-3 months after I stopped dosing stuff.

 

[GatorGreg]

It sounds like Dino’s… need your po4 and nitrates tested.. I’ve been battling them for years and I am currently.. it’s a pain it sucks but they will go away in time..

Yup.....another day another dry rock, dry sand fish less cycle dino infestation. It's becoming predictable now.

 

[Troylee]

Yup.....another day another dry rock, dry sand fish less cycle dino infestation. It's becoming predictable now.

Ya know… were we doing that same thing 15 years ago before leds.. we had mh lamps it was rare anyone got it! it’s making me wonder with all this uv talk and leds not having it that maybe they’re contributing to it… mh put out uv and a uv Steralizer helps with most Dino’s… hhhhmmmm…

 

[T-J]

Ya know… were we doing that same thing 15 years ago before leds.. we had mh lamps it was rare anyone got it! it’s making me wonder with all this uv talk and leds not having it that maybe they’re contributing to it… mh put out uv and a uv Steralizer helps with most Dino’s… hhhhmmmm…

Interesting. And yes, MH put out a ton of UV. I remember the days before LED's. My MH lights had special UV coated glass in front of them. There were warnings on the lamps not to operate them without the glass on.

 

[phildoingthings]

Yup.....another day another dry rock, dry sand fish less cycle dino infestation. It's becoming predictable now.

I did live sand with a fish in cycle

 

[Aquanic]

I did live sand with a fish in cycle

It’s taken all the tanks I’ve had atleast a year to kinda settle and stop fluctuations of different problems. It’s just microbiome competing for available space and resources. One day one thing will win then something else will come along and out compete that (algaes, bacteria, microfauna), all on a microscopic level. It takes time for them to grow and battle each other to the point there’s a balance nature creates. I have a similar problem and decided to dose microbactor-balance which is like carbon dosing but is supposed to feed mainly benifetial bacteria rather than all bacteria. I’ve noticed a difference in the stability in my tank with a readable nitrate and phosphate and reduction in algae and cyano growth.

 

[phildoingthings]

So I took a little bit of everybody's advice on this. I ended up ordering a UV Sterilizer from BRS with the proper plumbing to make it work with my existing return pump (SImplicity 1000DC turned down to the lowest setting (about 660GPH with loss). In the meantime i turned my LEDs to only blue and UV for 6 h a day with 1 hour ramp up/own times (2X AI Prime 16HDs) until the UV sterilizer comes. I upped my feeding a tad to try and raise nutrients. WIll also be skipping a water change this weekend and have not been blowing down/scrubbing rocks. Corals reacting OK no serious stress. ALgae definitely seems slow to grow back. I will update with UV install pics just because well....why not right?

 

[Idech]

Weekly water changes with manual siphon of the sand

I wouldn’t do that. Water changes help dinos bloom.

Op your plan looks good. If it doesn’t work, your next step might be identifying what type you have (or confirm) and use an appropriate treatment. Some types respond to UV while others don’t.

My first batch did, and the one I have now is resistant to it (prorocentrum). So I now dose silicate, plankton and microbacter 7. They go away after a few weeks and come back if there is an imbalance but if I start dosing again fast, I get them to recede. Some people even dose silicate as a prevention measure. My nitrates are above 10 ppm and phosphates are 0,03 ppm at least. I still get them.

Don’t be discouraged, there is a way to beat this and you’ll find it !

 

[phildoingthings]

I wouldn’t do that. Water changes help dinos bloom.

Op your plan looks good. If it doesn’t work, your next step might be identifying what type you have (or confirm) and use an appropriate treatment. Some types respond to UV while others don’t.

My first batch did, and the one I have now is resistant to it (prorocentrum). So I now dose silicate, plankton and microbacter 7. They go away after a few weeks and come back if there is an imbalance but if I start dosing again fast, I get them to recede. Some people even dose silicate as a prevention measure. My nitrates are above 10 ppm and phosphates are 0,03 ppm at least. I still get them.

Don’t be discouraged, there is a way to beat this and you’ll find it !

no for sure everyone has been very encouraging. I dont want to change too many things at once so i think focusing on feeding more and installing the UV sterilizer and then giving it some time to react is my best bet

 

[Lavey29]

I wouldn’t do that. Water changes help dinos bloom.

Op your plan looks good. If it doesn’t work, your next step might be identifying what type you have (or confirm) and use an appropriate treatment. Some types respond to UV while others don’t.

My first batch did, and the one I have now is resistant to it (prorocentrum). So I now dose silicate, plankton and microbacter 7. They go away after a few weeks and come back if there is an imbalance but if I start dosing again fast, I get them to recede. Some people even dose silicate as a prevention measure. My nitrates are above 10 ppm and phosphates are 0,03 ppm at least. I still get them.

Don’t be discouraged, there is a way to beat this and you’ll find it !

Nope, new tanks need this especially one started with dead rock and if you read my complete post you will see the strategy that works.

 

[Idech]

Nope, new tanks need this especially one started with dead rock and if you read my complete post you will see the strategy that works.

My tank is new and was started with dry rock. Water changes made the dinos worse. This is my own experience; I’m not saying that’s always how it is.

I believe it depends on what type of dinos you have also.

 

[ryanjohn1]

Pin cushion urchin may help. But looks like you’re just entering the ugly stage. I had unrelenting hair algae for a year

 

[Lavey29]

My tank is new and was started with dry rock. Water changes made the dinos worse. This is my own experience; I’m not saying that’s always how it is.

I believe it depends on what type of dinos you have also.

Well yes if you are having low nutrients levels doing water changes can bottom them out but it also replenishes and rebalance the tank to which is beneficial. Plus you can siphon out dinos. I'm a firm believer it's important the first year with dead rock start ups. After a year the tank starts to stabilize and you can choose to spread out water changes. I do every 3 weeks now but dose trace in-between too.

You are right though each tank is unique and what works for one may not work for another.

I had some patches here and there that resembles dinos and I overstocked pods and they pretty much are all gone now. I think pods are the unsung dino warriors.

 

[phildoingthings]

I ended up adding a tuxedo...However one of my clowns now seems to be coming down with the same Ich that killed off my purple tang so I am pulling all my fish and putting them in QT for treatment and will just leave the display tank fallow with the corals and inverts running UV

 

[Idech]

Well yes if you are having low nutrients levels doing water changes can bottom them out but it also replenishes and rebalance the tank to which is beneficial.

I have an atypical situation : my nitrates and phosphates never bottomed out. I also believe in water changes in general but it was just not doable for me.

I had some patches here and there that resembles dinos and I overstocked pods and they pretty much are all gone now. I think pods are the unsung dino warriors.

This is so right. I wish I had poured in tons of pods when I first started the tank !

 

[anthonygf]

I am feeding 2x a day frozen brine and mysis half a cube of each type a day. Current stock is 2 clowns, 1 bangai, 4 Neon Damselfish

I feel that the frozen brine and mysis does not have enough nutrients. I stopped feeding my fish frozen 5-6 years ago and feed only quality assorted flakes, I get several different kinds of flake and mix it up. I feed twice a day and since I started flakes the fish have been more energetic and colorful than just frozen. Flakes also have added vitamins supposedly. I have a fat and happy Yellow Tang for 7 years now along with a Flame Hawk, 2 clowns, two 3-stripe Damsels and a File Fish all up to 7 years old. They have been through a tank upgrade and a tear down for aiptasia removal.

 

[phildoingthings]

I feel that the frozen brine and mysis does not have enough nutrients. I stopped feeding my fish frozen 5-6 years ago and feed only quality assorted flakes, I get several different kinds of flake and mix it up. I feed twice a day and since I started flakes the fish have been more energetic and colorful than just frozen. Flakes also have added vitamins supposedly. I have a fat and happy Yellow Tang for 7 years now along with a Flame Hawk, 2 clowns, two 3-stripe Damsels and a File Fish all up to 7 years old. They have been through a tank upgrade and a tear down for aiptasia removal.

Interesting good information thanks!