Ready to give up… please help with nitrates and phos

[tazee]

I have had a FOWLR tank for a few years… I recently just started adding corals. Only 3 so far. I was dealing with high phos so I added chemi pure elite and that took it down to 0.10 and I stopped using it. A couple of days ago I rescaped my tank. Broke down the live rock and just changed how aquascape looked.

24 hours later my corals weren’t looking so good so I tested everything. My nitrates are at 0. My phos at 0.03
I am completely confused on what’s causing the low nitrates. I dosed neo nitro to get it up. It went to 0.8 and now back at 0.1 this morning. I had a little bit of gha and now it’s increasing every morning. I am feeding more to get nitrates up with no luck.

My set up is a 20g IM tank with filter sock, filter floss . 2 clown fishes, 2 nassarius snails, 2 hermit crabs and 1 one bumble bee snail. That’s it
I have used Hannah salifert api test kits to cross check and all are showing 0 nitrates

I’d really appreciate some help and soon please.

Rest of my levels are as follows
Sailinity - 1.024ppt
8dkh alkalinity
7.8 ph
400 calcium
0 nitrite
0 ammonia

 

[tazee]

Sorry for late reply. Just do changes slowly to avoid over correction. Some good advice in here and different approaches. With a cleanup crew, you are on your way. May need to replace or add as time goes and how algae is.

So clean up crew helped big time and in the last three days they have pretty much cleared up the algae. Now there’s only one problem… my nitrates are still showing up as 0 on my test kits (Hannah, salifert, api) …. I’m completely confused about what might be consuming all the nitrates now? My corals look really bad so I want to do anything I can to save them

 

[tazee]

No offense meant here at all... Absolute zero seems to be the old way of reefing. Most successful reefers will tell you that you NEED some level of PO4, above .03. When you get under .03, you run the risk of bottoming out your nutrients and crashing your tank. That will bring along with it cyanno issues, then Dino's take hold and you can have real problems. Corals need some levels of Nitrate and Phosphate to thrive, as they consume both. I think many reefer's will agree that a goal of nitrate around 10 and Phosphate around .1 is just fine for new-ish tank. Some of the nicest tanks I have ever seen have nutrient levels that are so high, they don't even test them anymore. Of course, those tanks are well established and have a stable bio-load to control nuisance algae. The problem is, when our tanks are new, we feel like we need to keep these numbers as low as possible. In essence, we do want to keep them low-ish, but never absolute zero. There are so many factors that make the nutrient numbers jump around. With my latest tank (225G), it took me over a year to get some stability, and I truly believe that it is due to the fact that we cannot use actual Live-Rock anymore. I never had these issues back in the day when I got figi live-rock direct from the ocean. I think that the newer way of aquascaping with "dead rock" such as the Liferock products and maybe even Marco rock (I used both), holds a ton of PO4 and then releases/leaches it out into the water like crazy, for a long period of time. I was chasing numbers all over the place for many months before I just decided to leave it alone and let it work itself out. I went from having zero PO4 to .99 in a month. Then I went crazy trying to eliminate PO4 and ended up zero'd out, which created way more issues. I couldn't keep SPS alive, LPS like torch corals would be happy, then die off, and I got a GHA bloom on almost 100% of my rock, that I'm only recently feeling like I have got ahold of and 90% beat the GHA. Almost a year of manual removal sessions, along with a cleanup crew. I had 9 Tuxedo and Pincushion Urchins in my tank, which are awesome for hair algae. A few have died off, but I still have 5 or so remaining.

To wrap up this long winded post (sorry!)... Do less rather than more. Let the tank simmer, let the rock leach nuitrients out, do your small regular water changes, be patient, avoid chemicals if you can, don't chase zero nitrate and phosphate, remove the Hair Algae manually when it grows long (I've found it comes off the rock nearly 95% if you let it grow out to a couple inches long, rather than trying to rip it off daily), get a couple of Urchins (they go right to the rock after you manually remove the GHA and eat all leftovers), get some fish that you can enjoy until your ready for expensive corals, add some copepods, be patient and just try to enjoy the break-in period.

I agree with you. My first issue was that my rock was constantly leaching phosphates. I got that under control after months and now my phosphate are at 0.9 while my nitrates are at 0. I understand GHA was consuming all the nitrates but even now that algae is gone and clean up crew is keeping it clean, my nitrates are still at 0 and not budging… my corals aren’t looking good. Do you have any suggestion on what might be going on here?

 

[Rappa]

I agree with you. My first issue was that my rock was constantly leaching phosphates. I got that under control after months and now my phosphate are at 0.9 while my nitrates are at 0. I understand GHA was consuming all the nitrates but even now that algae is gone and clean up crew is keeping it clean, my nitrates are still at 0 and not budging… my corals aren’t looking good. Do you have any suggestion on what might be going on here?

I had the same thing happen when I bottomed out. I dosed NeoNitro and NeoPhos for a while, and I also did some carbon dosing. Not sure if I would do the carbon dosing again though, as coincidentally that is when my GHA started. I think the rock leaches, absorbs, and leaches again... I hate it. I have a ton of fish, so I was able to stop dosing after a month or so, and I currently run with somewhat high nutrient levels. I lost many coral frags before turning it around. I think that is where patience also comes to play. Don't buy too much until it's stable. I would expect to lose a few corals, but that goes with the territory in establishing a new tank (in my opinion).

 

[tazee]

I had the same thing happen when I bottomed out. I dosed NeoNitro and NeoPhos for a while, and I also did some carbon dosing. Not sure if I would do the carbon dosing again though, as coincidentally that is when my GHA started. I think the rock leaches, absorbs, and leaches again... I hate it. I have a ton of fish, so I was able to stop dosing after a month or so, and I currently run with somewhat high nutrient levels. I lost many coral frags before turning it around. I think that is where patience also comes to play. Don't buy too much until it's stable. I would expect to lose a few corals, but that goes with the territory in establishing a new tank (in my opinion).

dang, I really hope that’s not the case with me. I have been extremely patient. I have had this tank as only FOWLR for years. I finally got corals after battling with phos for so long and now nitrates are completely gone…. I didn’t know rocks could consume nitrates though so I guess that’s another thing I’ll have to read up on

 

[Rappa]

dang, I really hope that’s not the case with me. I have been extremely patient. I have had this tank as only FOWLR for years. I finally got corals after battling with phos for so long and now nitrates are completely gone…. I didn’t know rocks could consume nitrates though so I guess that’s another thing I’ll have to read up on

Oh my bad! I forgot you had the tank already set up as a FOWLR!

 

[Rappa]

Since you don't have much rock, maybe rip clean that section with all of the GHA? Search Rip Clean and you should find info how to do it. Maybe once the majority of the GHA is gone, nutrients should come up on their own I'm thinking? Have you stirred your sand at all? My nutrient levels usually temporarily rise when I do a sand stir to loosen/clean things up down there. Corals seem to like it when I do that... I do have a huge sump and filtration though. I'm just throwing things out there here... Are you planning on getting more fish? That may help you as well. More fish, more nitrates right? I would get a couple of tuxedo urchins, as they have been the best thing for eating up the GHA for me. You can give/trade them back to LFS if/when you don't need them anymore. I always do a lights out period of a day or two after I do a manual GHA cleanup, and I add bacteria right after as well. It's been a long road for me with a 6'ft tank that had 90% of rocks covered in GHA, but I'm almost ready for a trophy. Hang in there...

 

[tazee]

Since you don't have much rock, maybe rip clean that section with all of the GHA? Search Rip Clean and you should find info how to do it. Maybe once the majority of the GHA is gone, nutrients should come up on their own I'm thinking? Have you stirred your sand at all? My nutrient levels usually temporarily rise when I do a sand stir to loosen/clean things up down there. Corals seem to like it when I do that... I do have a huge sump and filtration though. I'm just throwing things out there here... Are you planning on getting more fish? That may help you as well. More fish, more nitrates right? I would get a couple of tuxedo urchins, as they have been the best thing for eating up the GHA for me. You can give/trade them back to LFS if/when you don't need them anymore. I always do a lights out period of a day or two after I do a manual GHA cleanup, and I add bacteria right after as well. It's been a long road for me with a 6'ft tank that had 90% of rocks covered in GHA, but I'm almost ready for a trophy. Hang in there...

My clean up crew has already cleaned up all the GHA and unfortunately my nitrates haven’t risen regardless of me feeding more … I tried dosing and that seemed to have helped a little but my corals are t doing great. Especially my leather finger coral and I feel like I’m going to lose it if things don’t turn around fast

 

[tazee]

Folks, I’d appreciate if I can get any help here. My finger leather coral isn’t doing so great. The nitrates are now 3ppm after I dosed and my other corals opened up. My finger coral was doing fine before the nitrates went down to 0 then it shed for a week and now it’s completely drooping every single day. Would like to save it…. I have attached different pics to show where’s it’s located and my Nero 3 is running on 50%

 

[unclejed]

Folks, I’d appreciate if I can get any help here. My finger leather coral isn’t doing so great. The nitrates are now 3ppm after I dosed and my other corals opened up. My finger coral was doing fine before the nitrates went down to 0 then it shed for a week and now it’s completely drooping every single day. Would like to save it…. I have attached different pics to show where’s it’s located and my Nero 3 is running on 50%

I don't know your lighting schedule but you seem to have mostly Actinic lighting. Do run pure daylight in your schedule?

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

So cleanup crew worked. That is great. I am not the best person as far as Nitrates go. I do not check my parameters at all except for salinity when I do my water changes. Since my health and such hasn't been great. I was doing 100 percent and now I dose all for reef weeks I'm exhausted. Nothing for you to focus on at the moment.

If you want to raise nitrates, you will want to add a few more fish, I believe you stated you just have 2 clowns. Add more smaller fish, Neon gobies, tails spot blenny, six or 4 line wrasse, royal Gramma, just to name a few. I would not go over more than 5 fish total. You have 2 already. This will add nutrients as well but do so more naturally.

If you are running any carbon remove this first and see.

 

[Rappa]

Leathers can be weird like that though... They can and do go through stages like that normally. You could try putting it under a shadow or lower light area. I have burnt out toadstool leathers in the past with too much light. Rule out if the light intensity is an issue.

 

[zerozero]

Folks, I’d appreciate if I can get any help here. My finger leather coral isn’t doing so great. The nitrates are now 3ppm after I dosed and my other corals opened up. My finger coral was doing fine before the nitrates went down to 0 then it shed for a week and now it’s completely drooping every single day. Would like to save it…. I have attached different pics to show where’s it’s located and my Nero 3 is running on 50%

I've had my finger leather two days, so no help on that front.

With the caveats of what was said above by @Rappa, and that corals sometimes take time to respond, I wonder if your tank could use another wavemaker? I wish I could afford a Nero 3, but as I can't I added a tiny TMC wavemaker and on the reef mode, which is a is a long ramp up and ramp down, I found my clove polyps which had been a little droopy suddenly stood up erect again. The clownfish also got more lively. I think the extra turbulence really helped.