New ORA Saddleback Clownfish, does this "white dust" look to be of concern?

[Pink Reef]

Do you have an update?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks! I noticed more went spots.

I went ahead and set up two tanks for copper. The wrasse are in 1.12ppm and the other fish are in 1.5ppm... going to bump to 2.1 for the wrasse and 2.25 for the other fish over several days.

It took several hours to get all 12 fish but finally got them.

You don't need to raise the copper that slowly - that is only needed for ionic copper products, and based on the dos you mentioned, you are using an amine-chelated copper. You just need to add that in two doses, a half day apart, in order to assure your dose is accurate. Taking longer just allows the disease to get more of a foothold.

You may well see a sudden drop in the number of spots after you move the fish - the reproduction stages are all in the older tank, so any new spots will have be be formed by the few spots currently on the fish at the time of the move.

 

[125mph]

Okay I bumped it to 2.3 for the regular fish and currently 2.1 for the wrasse. Just want to make sure the wrasse are okay as I have two rhomboids in there and I read they dont like higher copper. BRS 80/20 said to keep it at 2.0 for wrasse?

I was also able to clear out the sand cloudiness by redoing the tank and this time thoroughly rinsing the sand with tap water, then rinsing it again with RODI afterwards.

Today is day 1 of fallow.

 

[125mph]

Do you have an update?

Yes, the saddles are still in a seperate QT tank but I don't know what they have. Its either Brook or Ich. Unfortunately, I have to be definitely before I can figure what to do with them. So for now, I took them off metroplex to see if the parasite comes back and then I can diagnosis it better. The same scattered white dust appears to come back but its so faint I can't tell what it is yet. It doesnt appear to be ich but maybe thats how ich looks on black clownfish?

My 12 fish in DT started getting what appears to be ich. Sevearl fish got a single white "sand grain" size dot on them, which would fall off the next day. My wrasse got one on his fin. I've seen ich before and this really looks like ich. Also, some fish started to twitch and scratch.

So decided to move all the fish into two QT tanks, running CopperSafe. I have formalin on hand in case its Brook but hoping I dont have to use it. Planning to keep them in Copper for coupe weeks and then putting then running prazi, then observe until fallow period is over.

 

[125mph]

Question for @Jay Hemdal :

Assumption 1: The ORA saddles came with parasites: If this assumption is true, then the parasite can't possibly be brook? These guys are bigger clowns, probably many years old. If they had brook, they probably would have died by now rather than go unnoticed in ORA's tank? SO what we have is likely ich (something non-fatal) that could have gone unnoticed, until a stress event such as being shipped, cause the outbreak?

or

Assumption 2: The new saddles got the parasite from from the original WC saddles I got which died shortly after being shipped from Live Aquaria. This assumption is hard for me to believe, because I was running TTM, and the fish simply didn't make it past the first transfer. I washed down the tank, wiped with vinegar and let it sit for close to a week in the heat outdoors (90'F+). Everything was spot dry except there was some water in airline tube. If this was brook, then only a free swimmer could be active in the small airline tub water, correct? They dont any other stage since they reproduce directly on the fish? So this assumption would seem very low odds if this had happen?

Therefore, assumption 1 assumes this isn't brook while assumption 2 assumes this is brook?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Question for @Jay Hemdal :

Assumption 1: The ORA saddles came with parasites: If this assumption is true, then the parasite can't possibly be brook? These guys are bigger clowns, probably many years old. If they had brook, they probably would have died by now rather than go unnoticed in ORA's tank? SO what we have is likely ich (something non-fatal) that could have gone unnoticed, until a stress event such as being shipped, cause the outbreak?

or

Assumption 2: The new saddles got the parasite from from the original WC saddles I got which died shortly after being shipped from Live Aquaria. This assumption is hard for me to believe, because I was running TTM, and the fish simply didn't make it past the first transfer. I washed down the tank, wiped with vinegar and let it sit for close to a week in the heat outdoors (90'F+). Everything was spot dry except there was some water in airline tube. If this was brook, then only a free swimmer could be active in the small airline tub water, correct? They dont any other stage since they reproduce directly on the fish? So this assumption would seem very low odds if this had happen?

Therefore, assumption 1 assumes this isn't brook while assumption 2 assumes this is brook?

I think you need to contact ORA, and see if they can confirm that they are not having any issues with Brook in their systems. Of course, I can’t tell you if they’ll be open and candid with you.

I can’t say much about assumption 2 - biosecurity is a pretty complex issue. I agree the odds are low, but I can’t say it was impossible for Brook to make it through that. For example, vinegar is not really a sterilizing agent, and if it is diluted to much or doesn’t cover all surfaces, it may not work 100%

 

[Spare time]

Okay I bumped it to 2.3 for the regular fish and currently 2.1 for the wrasse. Just want to make sure the wrasse are okay as I have two rhomboids in there and I read they dont like higher copper. BRS 80/20 said to keep it at 2.0 for wrasse?

I was also able to clear out the sand cloudiness by redoing the tank and this time thoroughly rinsing the sand with tap water, then rinsing it again with RODI afterwards.

Today is day 1 of fallow.

go for at least 2.2ppm with the wrasse due to the error on hanna tests.

 

[125mph]

I think you need to contact ORA, and see if they can confirm that they are not having any issues with Brook in their systems. Of course, I can’t tell you if they’ll be open and candid with you.

I can’t say much about assumption 2 - biosecurity is a pretty complex issue. I agree the odds are low, but I can’t say it was impossible for Brook to make it through that. For example, vinegar is not really a sterilizing agent, and if it is diluted to much or doesn’t cover all surfaces, it may not work 100%

Yes I’ve been in contact with Jordon at ORA, and he is aware of the clowns but didn’t confirm or deny any issues . he suggested i run copper.

 

[Spare time]

Yes I’ve been in contact with Jordon at ORA, and he is aware of the clowns but didn’t confirm or deny any issues . he suggested i run copper.

I had an clown from ORA that may have had brook too. I suspect something might be wrong.

 

[125mph]

I just bumped the copper to 2.22 for the wrasse and 2.35 for the regular fish.

How many days should I run this copper? BRS 80/20 series says 14 days after the last white dot is seen, and I read 30 days from other websites.

Also, BRS says to do 100% water change every 3 days, which is similar to TTM's timeline. I have no bio right now so I either have to do 100% water change or big water change to cut down ammonia.

 

[Spare time]

I just bumped the copper to 2.22 for the wrasse and 2.35 for the regular fish.

How many days should I run this copper? BRS 80/20 series says 14 days after the last white dot is seen, and I read 30 days from other websites.

Also, BRS says to do 100% water change every 3 days, which is similar to TTM's timeline. I have no bio right now so I either have to do 100% water change or big water change to cut down ammonia.

30 days at 81F. I do not like the brs 80/20 method. You also don't need to change the water super frequently if the nitrates don't climb fast and you established cycling bacteria into the QT. The brs method assumes no filter for ammonia (again, another reason I think that video is bad).

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just bumped the copper to 2.22 for the wrasse and 2.35 for the regular fish.

How many days should I run this copper? BRS 80/20 series says 14 days after the last white dot is seen, and I read 30 days from other websites.

Also, BRS says to do 100% water change every 3 days, which is similar to TTM's timeline. I have no bio right now so I either have to do 100% water change or big water change to cut down ammonia.

For amine chelated copper products, you should run it full dose for 30 days. Ionic copper is harsher, but you still need to run that for 21 days. The 14 days is wrong, and comes up because it’s “fast”.

 

[125mph]

Heres the saddles today. White spots back but there’s so many. Cloudy eyes.

The white spots are so not raised like ich, its as if someone threw sugar or baby powder on them. Very faint and impossible to see without flashlight. Whatever they gave my DT fish, my other fish definitely have ich-like white spots.. Its raised, and only a few here and there. Salt grain size.

 

[125mph]

ORA got back to me. They said their production team reviewed the systems that the fish came out of, and confirmed there is no velvet, flukes, brook or ich in any of those systems. They said systems are free of w/c fish and outside waters.

 

[Spare time]

ORA got back to me. They said their production team reviewed the systems that the fish came out of, and confirmed there is no velvet, flukes, brook or ich in any of those systems. They said systems are free of w/c fish and outside waters.

Hmm. It is possible that your tank got it from something else, but I am wondering about my clownfish I ordered too. One died but showed very little symptoms until the day it was dying but it also had numerous other body marks and damage that is unexplained so I am not sure what happened with that clown.

 

[125mph]

Hmm. It is possible that your tank got it from something else, but I am wondering about my clownfish I ordered too. One died but showed very little symptoms until the day it was dying but it also had numerous other body marks and damage that is unexplained so I am not sure what happened with that clown.

Yes possible, and its possible my previous QT ttm on all 12 fish didnt actually work... But why did the white spots and the scratching behavior suddenly start right after introducing these clowns to the DT, via acclimation box.. (And the main fish didnt even notice the clowns in the acclimation box. all ignored it lol)

 

[125mph]

but I am wondering about my clownfish I ordered too. One died but showed very little symptoms until the day it was dying but it also had numerous other body marks and damage that is unexplained so I am not sure what happened with that clown.

Which clown did you get? Small? Did he have any white spots?

 

[Spare time]

Which clown did you get? Small? Did he have any white spots?

Clarkii. It was fine but one eye looked slightly cloudy on one eye though I don't know if that was the one that died. I came in the next day and it was injure with weird marks and was breathing very heavily and was a bit slimed up.

 

[125mph]

I just ordered the Hanna ammonia checker.. I have a lot of fish split into two 20G tanks with copper. Zero bio/bacteria in this right now.

What's the best way to control ammonia. I was planning on doing lots of water changes but if threes a better way.. I can get bacteria in a bottle but threes nothing for it to bind to? Right now just bare bottom tank with PVC, air stone and heater. I have HOB fluval filters but dont know what media to use that wont absorb carbon.

 

[Spare time]

I just ordered the Hanna ammonia checker.. I have a lot of fish split into two 20G tanks with copper. Zero bio/bacteria in this right now.

What's the best way to control ammonia. I was planning on doing lots of water changes but if threes a better way.. I can get bacteria in a bottle but threes nothing for it to bind to?

Get a sponge filter and a big bottle of fritz or biospira bacteria. A hang on back filter with non aragonite biomedia also works.