No...it's pronounced "die NON ik" Shortened version of Deinonychus: Deinonychus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Myth mondays: Ich
- Thread starter SeymourDuncan
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My friend Steve would have called tha, he knows every Dino out there lol. That's a sweet beast!!!
I'd argue the point about ICH not being present always in the tank. My tank has been set up for some time. I haven't added any fish to the tank in over a year. Just for everyones enjoyment, I do have a Hippo Tang. I added a Spotted Foxface to the tank, with no signs of the desease, now I know what your saying, it coulda been here coulda been there, no chance, it doens't work that fast, my Hippo came down with Ich in a matter of hours. He keeps it with him if you ask me, its always present, and when he gets a lil jumpy, it rears its ugly head. No other fish including the new guy comes down with it, never. It goes away in a matter of days, never gets bad, because hes healthy, but it shows up, on the fish, when no signs have been is the tank for over a year. Proof is in the pudding. =)
What was your procedure for quarantine?
Quarantine who? I don't QT anything. Ich doesn't work in a matter of hours though, and if the stressed out host never got it, or any other fish in the tank, almost all Tangs, didn't get it, the Hippo keeps it with him at all times. This isn't the first time I've noted him doing this. When I moved the tank around a bit back, he did the same thing, no fish was added, none, just stressed him out moving the rocks around. And again, its only the Hippo that shows signs, no other fish.
calvo15290
Valuable Member
Face false false true
aquamn1999
Community Member
Did you add anything to the tank that came in wet and notquarantine it? ie. live rock, sand, coral, etc.. anything? Part of the ICHcycle is a cyst form that attaches to a solid object (sand, rock, coral base,etc) It is also a free floating stage so you can get it from tank water. Didyou quarantine the hippo before you put it in the tank? If did add something orthe hippo without QT than that is where the ich came from. The hippos immunesystem has been keeping it abbey untilhe got stressed when you add another fish. His immune system went don't anallowed ICH to attack in a greater capacity. Leaving your tank fallow will ridthe tank as there is no host. But you have to QT everything to keep it out ofyour tank.
Not quarantining is like playing Russian roulette with your fish and corals. Yeah a coral won't have ich but it can carry it into a tank from another. So can a crab, snail, shrimp, or even a feeding tong
The fish carries it. I have never QTd any of my fish. I put them in big enough tanks to lesson the stress on them. No coral and no fish added to the system when the Hippo broke out with Marine Ich. Just by rearranging the tank. That and adding one fish another time, in a matter of hours, not 24hours just a few hours and the Hippo came down with it again. This is my arguement that Ich is always present. I've seen it with my own eyes and have been at this for far to long to think it something else, when I know nothing was added. I know I'm not the only one with this kind of story, I know there are others that can corroborate this.
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"I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed." From:Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
There are those individuals that quarantine absolutely everything and treat prophylatically for Cryptocaryans Irritan with every fish they introduce. Any invert or coral that could possibly carry the parasite in placed in quarantine with no fish available for the parasite to host, a fallow environment. The parasite eventually dies off with no host. Tanks are started with dry base rock and dry sand.
I agree 100% that the majority of tank do have the parasite to some degree. I wish I could find the study that reported that a high % of wild caught fish have cyst within their gills.
It is however possible to have a Cryptocaryans free tank if you're willing to go to great lengths.
There are those individuals that quarantine absolutely everything and treat prophylatically for Cryptocaryans Irritan with every fish they introduce. Any invert or coral that could possibly carry the parasite in placed in quarantine with no fish available for the parasite to host, a fallow environment. The parasite eventually dies off with no host. Tanks are started with dry base rock and dry sand.
I agree 100% that the majority of tank do have the parasite to some degree. I wish I could find the study that reported that a high % of wild caught fish have cyst within their gills.
It is however possible to have a Cryptocaryans free tank if you're willing to go to great lengths.
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I've never understood how ich spreads like the plague in people's tanks. I got a pair of flame wrasse in and I didn't QT (I know, I know) and they started to get a few spots the next day. I fed garlic, not to kill the ich but to boost their immune system so that they can fight off the ich and they did. It cleared up and no other fish caught it. I also had a hippo tang in the tank that would develope a few spots every now and again for what ever reason but it always cleared up and again, no other fish became infected. My experiences have always had me questioning "ich facts". Does anyone know of any research or studies done on marine ich that can be posted to help clear things up?
Fish do have some degree of natural immunity. In a stress free stable environment the fish will not become severely symptomatic. You may see the occasional eruptions of the parasite but the fishes immunity is able to keep the parasite within check. Cryptocaryans becomes severely symptomatic when the fish for what ever reason is unable to effectively fight off the parasite, most of the time the stress is a decline in water quality, acclimation stress, nutritional stress, over crowding, aggression or the presence of other pathogens.
I hope that posting links is permitted here, if not sorry.
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
+1
I have quarantined every fish since day one, and had ich sneak in on a piece of coral. I now quarantine everything going into my tank, even corals and other inverts. The risk is just too high, and I don't want to go through a tank teardown and fallow period ever again.
Maybe even a fly will land on your water and ich will latch on his foot and he may carry it to another tank. But that's gotta be the most unlikely scenario next to appearing from literally nowhere.
So far the people who literally qt everything all say ich can be eradicated.
So far the people who literally qt everything all say ich can be eradicated.
Part of the undrelying question would be, once its in the tank can it be totally eradicated. Not just QTd, where it supposedly gets left.
But, I will also throw this in to you:
I once bought a PBT from a guy who always sold his Tangs from a Copper Treated tank. Riddle me this, then why is it that once I put that fish in my tank, he immediately broke out with ICH.
Im taking your myths to the cleaners here.
I welcome all riddles!
Once ich is in the display tank you literally just remove your fish. The longest ich can survive is 72 days with no fish. There's not much to it, just finding a place to stuff all the fish safely.
Now, to answer your riddle:
If the tang got ich when you added him there are one of two things that MUST be true or he wouldn't have gotten it.
1) he was not fully treated, living in a copper system that has fish frequently added can be just as risky as not treating then. Te local pet store has a copper fish section but the second they add a new fish the entire medication process is reset.
Or
2) you had it in your tank and your existing fish had good immunity to it whether it was from a tiny frag, a crab, whatever. Its there now if the tang had it and will be until you go fishless for a while.
I'm using logic and information based off science. Anything else is in the realm of magic which I'm not well rounded in.
Palting
Active Member
You'll never get the answer that you seek, my friend. I can rebut your statements easily. Cooper treated tank can mean a multitude of things, most of which can mean that the fish may have been in a copper treated tank but the fish itself was not properly treated. Like, what was the copper level, how long was the fish in there, and did your guy continue to place his hands or equipment or other fish in the tank during the "treatment" period? Also, a healthy fish placed in a tank with Ich can get stressed and show Ich within 24-48 hours.
Like I said, you'll never get the answers that you seek. You seem to have made up your mind, as I and a lot of people have as well. There have been articles published by knowledgeable experts in the field, two of which links have been provided by tahoe61, that support the idea that Ich can be eradicated in our tanks. I do not belittle your right to your opinion, but I do not believe your postings and riddles will change what some people have now accepted as fact.
Happy reefing!!
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The only truly useful data is that gathered in controlled environments aka none of our aquariums. (Mostly). The rest is just a game of luck. (Always).
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