My struggle with Velvet, and Peroxide as a promising tool

[CuzzA]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 14)

Day 8: Dosage remained at 5 cups but was only administered once in the afternoon. Fish are doing well. I think whatever pathogen (suspected velvet) is dead. All seems well. Ammonia is still detected, but it's testing low. I was going to stop dosing H202 today completely, but then worried that some free swimming stage of the pathogen survived and decided to dosed once more at 4: pm. After today, I may stop dosing H202 and just observe. I am hopeful that if this was velvet, it has been eradicated, but only time will tell. If this was black ich (a slight possibility because of the unknown black patches that showed up on the blue spot puffer), than I should probably keep dosing for at least until 11 to 12 days. Still, I'm concerned about over doing H202, so my plan is to just observe after today. All fish for several days now are eating and are not showing symptoms of illness. If any experts here feel this is a bad course of action, please chime in and let me know. #reefsquad @Humblefish Thank you!

I'll update on the 180 gallon tank monthly after today to track progress or possible long term effects of dosing H202 that could show up later.

NOTE: I will continue high dosage of H202 in the puffer sick tank but will only update on progress or setbacks at the end of the puffer's treatment.

Some tentative conclusions:

• Some fish seem to handle the highest dosage of 7.2 cups of H202 better than others. For example, my engineer gobiess and wrasses seem to be more stressed and/or more sensitive to the treatment. At the lower dosage of 5 cup they seemed to fair much better and continued eating.
• PH and the biological filtration seems to be effected. PH can be controlled by adding more buffer to the tank and Prime appears to be a safe to control ammonia spikes; however, more research needs to be conducted before a true conclusion should be made as I never heard back from Seachem about the safety of adding their product Prime to a tank with H202 in the water, and I am not a chemist. All I can say for sure is adding Prime to the puffer's tank with H202 in it did not immediately kill the fish.
• I can concur with the OP about the promise of using H202 as a treatment in a FOWLR tank; My yellow tang (on deaths door before starting treatment) was not eating, was super thin, and spent most of it's time in the flow from the power heads before starting treatment appears to have made a full recovery after treatment. The banner fish and Regal tang were still eating but spending half of their time in the flow of power heads have stopped this behavior as well. Other fish in the tank exhibiting symptoms of illness such as hovering at the bottom of the tank, top of the tank, gulping air from the top of the tank, listless behaviors, have stopped exhibiting these behaviors after treatment as well. Only time will tell if the symptoms return now that adding H202 to the tank has been discontinued. If symptoms return, my conclusions are that either the treatment was stopped too soon, or the treatment only 'controls' the pathogens making the fish more comfortable, but does not eradicate them completely. More research needs to be conducted in a scientific setting to positively determine overall effectiveness, exact dosages, lengths of treatments for different pathogens as well as different species of fish, and to determine what effects (if any) using H202 as a treatment for saltwater fish is likely to have on the long term health of the fish.
• I do not advocate any one else try this experiment with their livestock! I entered into the treatment with full knowledge that using H202 as a treatment could cause losses to some or all of my livestock. I adjusted dosages based on observations of my fish and the needs of keeping my biological filtration going, so my dosing schedule cannot be used as a road map for others as everyone's tank and its needs are different. Keep in mind, I may have just been lucky! Still, pending further research, I would agree with the OP that using H202 is a promising alternative to common practices and allows for treating fish in a FOWLR display.

Pictures

• Yellow tang eating well, active, no symptoms of illness. It appears that the yellow tang is already gaining some weight, though that may be just my wishful thinking as I can't actually weight the fish. It's belly area is expanding though from eating heartily over the last few days. Flame angel was never symptomatic and did not appear affected by the dosing of H202
• Side view of tank=Fish gather together in this corner for breakfast (frozen mix)
• Diamond Goby is out, but I worry it does not have enough food now since the sand is basically sterile now. It is eating frozen mix.
• Regal tang and Majestic Angel are eating, active, and exhibit no symptoms of illness. HLLE on the MA does not appear to be better or worse after H202 dosing. I will continue to observe even though dosing may be discontinued after today.
• Moyer's and Ornate Leopard wrasses as well as the other two wrasses (Pintail and McCosker's) did exhibit stressed type symptoms each dosing, but all seemed to tolerate the lower 5 cup dosage better than the 7.2 cup dosage. They continued to eat throughout the treatment period, though the Ornate wrasse did appear to lose some weight, but not significantly.
• The only fish loss was the Flame Hawkfish before the H202 dosing was initiated. Other expected losses were some snails that I missed pulling before treating the tank.

Perhaps throw in a black Molly and see if anything pops up. I would keep dosing until I had confirmation. You could be right at the cusp of elimination, but stopping short would give the parasite the opportunity to take hold again. Just my opinion realizing you have a lot at stake.

 

[Sashaka]

Perhaps throw in a black Molly and see if anything pops up. I would keep dosing until I had confirmation. You could be right at the cusp of elimination, but stopping short would give the parasite the opportunity to take hold again. Just my opinion realizing you have a lot at stake.

Good idea. I wish I had thought to purchase one and start transitioning it over to saltwater while I was treating. The fish store is 1-1/2 hours away, so a three hour trip to pick one up now. Unfortunately, I have too much grading of papers to go today. Maybe I can run up after work tomorrow and pick one up.

Update. I believe I've experienced one fish loss overnight. I don't know if the pintail is hiding this morning or if it died. It's always out and it's a no show this morning. I'll update later today with a progress post, but in the meantime I'm so bummed. The pintail wrasse was one of my favorite fish.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 15)

Day 9: I was going to update after one month, but there's been new developments over night.

Positives: All other fish in the tank besides the Pintail are accounted for and seem to be doing well. They are eating robustly and swimming actively. A few snails made it through the treatment. I believe they were all snails that bury in the sand, so maybe that protected them from the H202 a little more than the snails that remain out on the rocks.

Negative-The Pintail wrasse is nowhere to be found this morning. I've checked the floor around the tank, the overflows, the sump, and every nook and cranny that I can see in the rock work without disturbing it, and I cannot locate the fish. It was always out front and center, not a shy fish at all. I fear the fish has perished during the night. The question now becomes why?

• Did the fish perish because I added that last dose of H202 yesterday? The wrasses seemed more sensitive to the treatment than the other fish in the FOWLR being treated. The Ornate and Moyer's are still swimming a lot together during the day, something they usually only did at night before treating the tank. Did I misread the signs of activity for health when it really indicated the fish was stressed?
• Was it because I added Prime last night before going to bed? It seems like if this was a cause of death, other fish would be affected. All other fish in the tank ate well this morning. The yellow tang was even tearing into the Nori with gusto.
• Was there a big PH drop overnight that caused additional stress on an already stressed fish? The PH tested low this morning, though it was not at lethal levels. Maybe the PH dropped lower during the night. If so, wouldn't other fish have perished or at least show signs of stress this morning? All fish are swimming actively, eating well, and behaviors seem normal. PH buffer was added to the tank to correct the problem.
• Is the fish just stressed and hiding somewhere in the rocks where I cannot see it? It's a slim possibility, but doubtful

A 30 gallon water change will be performed today.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 16)

Day 9: visual diary continued: No H202 added to the tank today. Lights on the tank were plugged back in today. Regular timed lighting schedule resumed. Tank lights have been off for 8 days and only the overhead light in the room and some light from a window have lit the tank. Continuing to add Microbacter7 per directions on the label to keep cycle going.

Positives continued: Ammonia is reading zero on the Seachem badge. I did not test with the API ammonia kit today.

Negatives continued: At 1 pm, the pintail still has not made an appearance. Evening update: 7: pm Still no pintail. Caught the Regal tang, yellow tang, and ornate wrasse flashing lightly on rocks or sand. I don't know if the flashing behavior is to try and dislodge parasites still on the fish or to scratch areas that are itchy because they are healing. More observation is needed.

• Long nose hawkfish came out later than usual to eat breakfast. I'm not sure if his late arrival to eat is a sign of stress or not. He came out when he smelled the food. He's usually visible somewhere in the tank at all times. It's too early to tell if this is an off behavior.
• Full tank shot shows most fish after eating have settled down and gone back to their domiciles in the rocks, which is normal behavior for most of these fish; they retreat and then come out to swim around occasionally. The banner fish, vagabond, and a few others swim around all day. The Yellow tang can be seen still picking at the Nori.

 

[Cooter181]

How have things gone over the week?

 

[Sashaka]

How have things gone over the week?

Thanks for asking how the fish are doing! Positives: I absolutely believe dosing H202 was beneficial and it at least bought me time to save my yellow tang. I'm not sure if my tank is "clean" of every parasite, but I've had no loses this week, all fish are still eating well, and no fish has returned to hover in the powerheads. The yellow tang is gaining weight and even getting a little feisty with the little Kole tang that has appointed itself top dog...puts a smile on my face as I watch because the yellow tang (twice as big) was always such a wimp before!

I've been thinking hard about what happened to the pintail. It could have died somewhere in the rocks. I never found the fish to confirm. I did think of one other possibility. I did forget to close the lid on the tank one night after feeding. While I didn't find the fish rug surfing, I do own a cat. If the fish jumped, the cat may have gotten a very expensive snack. At this point, I'll never know for sure.

There are some negatives: I've observed the Ornate wrasse and flame tail still flashing. The yellow wrasse is also hanging out near the bottom of the tank a lot, but I might be over sensitive about these behaviors right now.

Still, I am concerned enough about the continued flashing to act before things get bad again. I watched the tank every chance I get. My theory is if the fish are flashing due to an ich from healing similar to what we feel when we are healing rather than an active parasite, the behavior would have stopped this week or at least lessened. It has not stopped or lessened.

I've decided there's no time better than now to take the tank down to hyposalinity. The majority of snails are still out of the tank and I don't have any coral in the FOWLR. Any pods are likely dead already from the H202 dosing, so if this is a Prazi resistant fluke, Hypo for 7 days should finish it off. I'm going by what @Humblefish wrote here about hypo and flukes. : https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hyposalinity.22/
I know it's not the first treatment or even probably the best treatment for flukes, but after the aggressive round of H202 dosing, I think it will be less stressful on my fish.

I took a picture of the H202 brand that I used during treatment. I will try posting it with the other pictures on the first day of treatment as a picture reference. Most of the fish have gone to bed for the night. I did take a quick pic to update, but I'll get a better one tomorrow when they're all out for breakfast.

 

[CuzzA]

Thanks for asking how the fish are doing! Positives: I absolutely believe dosing H202 was beneficial and it at least bought me time to save my yellow tang. I'm not sure if my tank is "clean" of every parasite, but I've had no loses this week, all fish are still eating well, and no fish has returned to hover in the powerheads. The yellow tang is gaining weight and even getting a little feisty with the little Kole tang that has appointed itself top dog...puts a smile on my face as I watch because the yellow tang (twice as big) was always such a wimp before!

I've been thinking hard about what happened to the pintail. It could have died somewhere in the rocks. I never found the fish to confirm. I did think of one other possibility. I did forget to close the lid on the tank one night after feeding. While I didn't find the fish rug surfing, I do own a cat. If the fish jumped, the cat may have gotten a very expensive snack. At this point, I'll never know for sure.

There are some negatives: I've observed the Ornate wrasse and flame tail still flashing. The yellow wrasse is also hanging out near the bottom of the tank a lot, but I might be over sensitive about these behaviors right now.

Still, I am concerned enough about the continued flashing to act before things get bad again. I watched the tank every chance I get. My theory is if the fish are flashing due to an ich from healing similar to what we feel when we are healing rather than an active parasite, the behavior would have stopped this week or at least lessened. It has not stopped or lessened.

I've decided there's no time better than now to take the tank down to hyposalinity. The majority of snails are still out of the tank and I don't have any coral in the FOWLR. Any pods are likely dead already from the H202 dosing, so if this is a Prazi resistant fluke, Hypo for 7 days should finish it off. I'm going by what @Humblefish wrote here about hypo and flukes. : https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hyposalinity.22/
I know it's not the first treatment or even probably the best treatment for flukes, but after the aggressive round of H202 dosing, I think it will be less stressful on my fish.

I took a picture of the H202 brand that I used during treatment. I will try posting it with the other pictures on the first day of treatment as a picture reference.

Given you have a FOWLR, perhaps you could pull your rock and place it in a cheap $10 kiddie pool with a powerhead, remove some sand with the exception of bowls for the wrasses and do a large water change, add PVC fittings and just treat the system with chloroquine phosphate for thirty days. Maybe leave the system rock-less for 76 days if you suspect ich. Just a though. You have far more options given that it's not a reef.

 

[Sashaka]

Given you have a FOWLR, perhaps you could pull your rock and place it in a cheap $10 kiddie pool with a powerhead, remove some sand with the exception of bowls for the wrasses and do a large water change, add PVC fittings and just treat the system with chloroquine phosphate for thirty days. Maybe leave the system rock-less for 76 days if you suspect ich. Just a though. You have far more options given that it's not a reef.

I can't use CP in the FOWLR because I have a Regal tang and wrasses. They don't do well with CP.

Hey, how are your fish doing? Are they still in the bathroom setup pictured earlier?

 

[CuzzA]

I can't use CP in the FOWLR because I have a Regal tang and wrasses. They don't do well with CP.

Hey, how are your fish doing? Are they still in the bathroom setup pictured earlier?

Ahh, yeah, well maybe copper then?

Tomorrow will be ten days at 80/mg. I dosed every day and did a big water change mid way and re-dosed the system. Pretty much after four days all fish were symptom free; however, I lost the flame angel. I think he either had an infection or the ammonia just got too high. After it died is when I did the water change and then treated all the fish with Furan 2. The angel was pretty infected with velvet. It had an infection on it's lip, which actually healed, but despite no signs of velvet when it died, an almost instant post mortem look revealed it's scales and skin were in really bad shape. Ammonia was a little high too (alert status), so it could have just been the combination of things were too much. Below is a shot of the angel in the system before I pulled them all.

Since I have been treating for ten days tomorrow, I think I'm going to give them all another 30 minutes h2o2 bath, sterilize the qt, swap the HOB filter and bio sponge for a new one and then restart the system with bio Spira. I'll wait a week and add a black Molly and see if anything pops up. Then leave them in there for another thirty days, transfer the molly to the display and see if we're clear there, then re-introduce them to the system.

In the mean time I've just been adding coral.

 

[Sashaka]

You must have Perox-Aid. I would probably start with the lower dosage and ramp up if needed. What pathogen(s) do you suspect are in your DT?

Sorry, @Humblefish. Somehow I missed your conclusion that I was using Perox-Aid. I have attached a pic of the 35% H202 brand I was using for reference.

 

[Sashaka]

Ahh, yeah, well maybe copper then?

Tomorrow will be ten days at 80/mg. I dosed every day and did a big water change mid way and re-dosed the system. Pretty much after four days all fish were symptom free; however, I lost the flame angel. I think he either had an infection or the ammonia just got too high. After it died is when I did the water change and then treated all the fish with Furan 2. The angel was pretty infected with velvet. It had an infection on it's lip, which actually healed, but despite no signs of velvet when it died, an almost instant post mortem look revealed it's scales and skin were in really bad shape. Ammonia was a little high too (alert status), so it could have just been the combination of things were too much. Below is a shot of the angel in the system before I pulled them all.

Since I have been treating for ten days tomorrow, I think I'm going to give them all another 30 minutes h2o2 bath, sterilize the qt, swap the HOB filter and bio sponge for a new one and then restart the system with bio Spira. I'll wait a week and add a black Molly and see if anything pops up. Then leave them in there for another thirty days, transfer the molly to the display and see if we're clear there, then re-introduce them to the system.

In the mean time I've just been adding coral.

Sorry to hear you lost the Flame Angel. They're one of my favorite dwarf angels. Check with @Humblefish, but I believe it's safe to use Prime with CP. You can't if you're using copper though. The bubble tip looks happy in the pic. Buying coral can be an addicting.

Me, I've decided to stop buying coral for awhile. The last coral I bought at an auction here on R2R caused an algae issues so bad I had to treat the tank. I lost most of the coral in the process. The only thing that exploded during the treatment was the Aiptasia. I got so fed up dealing with the Aiptasia, I broke down the tank and started over. Now that beautiful tank that had been up and running for years without issues is going through an ugly stage. It's sad to look at. I'm glad you're having good luck with the coral you're buying though. It does make waiting for the fish to return to the MD easier.

 

[CuzzA]

Sorry to hear you lost the Flame Angel. They're one of my favorite dwarf angels. Check with @Humblefish, but I believe it's safe to use Prime with CP. You can't if you're using copper though. The bubble tip looks happy in the pic. Buying coral can be an addicting.

Me, I've decided to stop buying coral for awhile. The last coral I bought at an auction here on R2R caused an algae issues so bad I had to treat the tank. I lost most of the coral in the process. The only thing that exploded during the treatment was the Aiptasia. I got so fed up dealing with the Aiptasia, I broke down the tank and started over. Now that beautiful tank that had been up and running for years without issues is going through an ugly stage. It's sad to look at. I'm glad you're having good luck with the coral you're buying though. It does make waiting for the fish to return to the MD easier.

Yes, I've been using Prime, but there was 9 fish in the 20 gallon long. Though most are small gobies and blennies, it has been a battle. It seemed the biofilter was effected by the CP because I thought I had it cycled. Of course I pulled the carbon polyfilter that came with the HOB when I started treating so perhaps the lions share of the bacteria went with it. I think the fish was just overwhelmed with a skin infection. I pulled it as it was dying so no decomposing and it's skin out of water looked terrible haggard.

I As for coral, have never ordered online. Always local reefers and I'm fortunate to have some really good LFS in the area. Most of the time I pick frags out of their aquaculture tank which is pest free and I'll buy fresh cuts. They are super strict as the system has tens of thousands of dollars of coral. It's a risk taking fresh cuts, but I at least know it will be pest free. Nevertheless, if I'm buying corals from frag tanks I always remove frags from their plugs, cut away as much remaining glue or rock and dip everything. So far so good. I have no aptasia, vermited snails, not even asterina starfish, though I'm tempted to add some because I know most species are good detrivores and I think they're cool.

 

[Sashaka]

Yes, I've been using Prime, but there was 9 fish in the 20 gallon long. Though most are small gobies and blennies, it has been a battle. It seemed the biofilter was effected by the CP because I thought I had it cycled. Of course I pulled the carbon polyfilter that came with the HOB when I started treating so perhaps the lions share of the bacteria went with it. I think the fish was just overwhelmed with a skin infection. I pulled it as it was dying so no decomposing and it's skin out of water looked terrible haggard.

I As for coral, have never ordered online. Always local reefers and I'm fortunate to have some really good LFS in the area. Most of the time I pick frags out of their aquaculture tank which is pest free and I'll buy fresh cuts. They are super strict as the system has tens of thousands of dollars of coral. It's a risk taking fresh cuts, but I at least know it will be pest free. Nevertheless, if I'm buying corals from frag tanks I always remove frags from their plugs, cut away as much remaining glue or rock and dip everything. So far so good. I have no aptasia, vermited snails, not even asterina starfish, though I'm tempted to add some because I know most species are good detrivores and I think they're cool.

Sounds like you've got it made! I wish I had some local reefers to buy frags from that I trusted. No one close enough.

I don't have asterina starfish or vermited snails either, though a few have made it into quarantine from time to time. I just pull the starfish and glue the tips of the vermited snails as soon as I see them, so they have been easy to keep out of the MD. Aiptaisa, on the other hand, showed up on some live rock after being in quarantine 6 months with no signs of the pest on it when I transferred it. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. ;Facepalm All I can say is that's one tough invert! Years later, and after trying many different types of failed remedies, hopefully now I am finally aiptasia free. ;Nailbiting;Nailbiting

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 17)

Day 16 update continued from post #126:

I did a 30 gallon RODI freshwater water change this morning to start bringing salinity down to 15 ppt, adjusting only for temp and ph. I will do another 30 gallon water change later today as soon as the RODI Brute can water temperature matches my tank water. Right now salinity is at just under 30 ppm after the first water change. I'll be taking it down (maybe not in 48 hours but hopefully by day 3) to 15 ppm and keeping it there for 7 days. @Humblefish's write up recommends 5 days in hyposalinity for flukes, but I have sand and rock, so I'll give it a few more days just for good measure. I know I can't be totally sure since this is a MD and not a bare bottom/no rock quarantine setup. After all, live sand worms survived H202 by digging down into the sand (pictured below). I'm hoping flukes are not as smart. Full tank shot shows all fish front and center waiting for breakfast.

Observations over the last few days show multiple fish still flashing: The ones already mentioned and today I saw the Starry eyed blenny flash. All fish continue to eat and are active.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 17)
Day 23

I don't have much to report. I was not able to continue dropping salinity over the week. I worked too late to do the water changes as much as needed. In addition, my refractometer won't calibrate. The screw is ceased and I stripped it trying to get it to move. Ugh! I need to get a new refractometer. I'm traveling to LFS tomorrow 1-20-20 to pick one up. I thought I had the tank down to 120 ppt, but after trying to calibrate the refractometer to be sure it was correctly reading the salinity, I now think it is more likely at 125 ppt. I'll do one more water change to get it down more today, but I'll wait to tweak the salinity to 15 ppt until I pick up the refractometer tomorrow.

Update 1 week later
I've seen the Ornate wrasse and the Starry eyed blenny flashing over the week. The Regal tang has scratched its nose a few times, but Regals tend to do that without parasites present, so I'll keep watching. No one is hovering in the powerheads this week. The yellow tang is still eating, but maybe not with as much gusto as before? I'll keep watching. If I do lose another fish, I will go hunting and put it under the microscope. I wish I had thought to hunt for the Flame hawkfish and do that in the beginning. No other losses since the pintail. Some bacteria was observed growing on a few rocks yesterday. I pulled them and rinsed them in freshwater, replacing them in the tank. I added another dose of Microbacter7 to try to out compete the brown bacteria starting on the rocks. I also reinstalled the pellet reactor this week. If the bacteria comes back, I'll put it under the microscope to get a specific ID and go from there.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 18)
Update: Eve of day 29

The tank remained at 20 ppt salinity over the week as my old refractometer could not be calibrated. I didn't want to chance taking the tank down below 13 ppt, and crazy as it sounds, not one store in the city 1-1/2 hours from me carried a refractometer, so I had to order one from the internet. It finally came. I was able to finish taking the tank down from 20 ppt to 15 ppt today, the level recommended to eradicate flukes.

Positives: Still no fish swimming in the powerheads. Most fish are eating and active. The snails found alive after dosing H202 are still alive, though I don't expect that to continue now that they're in hyposalinity.

Negatives: Some of the fish are still flashing. The worst negative is the Yellow tang has stopped eating this week and is again breathing heavy. I've started hyposalinity, but if it does not seem to help the yellow tang in a few days, do you guys think I should restart the H202 again at a reduced level so as not to irritate the wrasses and kill the cycle again? I'll admit, losing the pintail scared me off dosing H202 for a bit, but the yellow tang did perk up and start eating again while I was dosing it. I wish there were physical signs of the pathogen I'm fighting visible on my fish to help me positively identify what's going on. The swimming in the powerheads and flashing seemed to point to velvet or flukes. I don't have another quarantine free at the moment to pull the yellow tang, so treatment must continue in the MD. Thoughts? Suggestions? I really am looking for some direction. @Humblefish @Jessican ?

If you do think I should start dosing again, what dosage should I go with and can I safely dose in hyposalinity? I'm not sure the yellow tang can make it long enough to bring the tank back up to 35ppt since he is not eating.

 

[Jessican]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 18)
Update: Eve of day 29

The tank remained at 20 ppt salinity over the week as my old refractometer could not be calibrated. I didn't want to chance taking the tank down below 13 ppt, and crazy as it sounds, not one store in the city 1-1/2 hours from me carried a refractometer, so I had to order one from the internet. It finally came. I was able to finish taking the tank down from 20 ppt to 15 ppt today, the level recommended to eradicate flukes.

Positives: Still no fish swimming in the powerheads. Most fish are eating and active. The snails found alive after dosing H202 are still alive, though I don't expect that to continue now that they're in hyposalinity.

Negatives: Some of the fish are still flashing. The worst negative is the Yellow tang has stopped eating this week and is again breathing heavy. I've started hyposalinity, but if it does not seem to help the yellow tang in a few days, do you guys think I should restart the H202 again at a reduced level so as not to irritate the wrasses and kill the cycle again? I'll admit, losing the pintail scared me off dosing H202 for a bit, but the yellow tang did perk up and start eating again while I was dosing it. I wish there were physical signs of the pathogen I'm fighting visible on my fish to help me positively identify what's going on. The swimming in the powerheads and flashing seemed to point to velvet or flukes. I don't have another quarantine free at the moment to pull the yellow tang, so treatment must continue in the MD. Thoughts? Suggestions? I really am looking for some direction. @Humblefish @Jessican ?

If you do think I should start dosing again, what dosage should I go with and can I safely dose in hyposalinity? I'm not sure the yellow tang can make it long enough to bring the tank back up to 35ppt since he is not eating.

So unfortunately I don’t think hypo works with velvet, which is why you’re probably still seeing symptoms. I really don’t know if dosing peroxide during hypo would be contraindicated, but I do think you should go back to dosing peroxide, because I think actual elimination will require extended dosing (especially with velvet - you will need to dose long enough to eliminate the free swimmers being released by the cysts).

I’m confident that 1mL/8gal is completely reef safe, and I’m having good results at that level, but I think I’m dealing with brook. I’m pretty sure that we’re going to find that 1mL/3-5gal is actually safe (and advisable for more virulent parasites like velvet); I don’t think you need to go as high as 75ppm.

I think with velvet, the best success will be a continuous drip, at least at night, because it break down so fast. Check out what SKKY was dosing for example (let me know if you need a link).

 

[Sashaka]

So unfortunately I don’t think hypo works with velvet, which is why you’re probably still seeing symptoms. I really don’t know if dosing peroxide during hypo would be contraindicated, but I do think you should go back to dosing peroxide, because I think actual elimination will require extended dosing (especially with velvet - you will need to dose long enough to eliminate the free swimmers being released by the cysts).

I’m confident that 1mL/8gal is completely reef safe, and I’m having good results at that level, but I think I’m dealing with brook. I’m pretty sure that we’re going to find that 1mL/3-5gal is actually safe (and advisable for more virulent parasites like velvet); I don’t think you need to go as high as 75ppm.

I think with velvet, the best success will be a continuous drip, at least at night, because it break down so fast. Check out what SKKY was dosing for example (let me know if you need a link).

Thank you, @Jessican. I was hoping the continued flashing after the H202 treatments was just itching due to healing. It's obvious now that was not the case. I do know hypo does not work on velvet. The hypo treatment was being done in case I was dealing with Prazi resistant flukes because I never saw one spot of velvet show up on any of my fish. Whatever is attacking the fish seems to be hiding in the gills. Thank you for your recommendations. It is what I was thinking too; I just didn't trust myself to make the call without another person's input who has been dosing H202. I wish I knew if it was safe to restart the H202 while the fish are in hypo. It will take me some time to bring up the salinity so the fish don't go into shock. I may have to chance it while I bring back up the salinity if I want to save the yellow tang.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 19)
Update: Day 30

I resumed H202 dosing today. I've ordered in a Jebao D4 dosing unit and it should be here in a few days. Until then, I will dose only during the day. Once it comes, I will set it up to dose at night as well. I decided to dose 75 ppm this morning to hit the parasite hard with the initial dose and then I'll drop the ppm down to around 50-56 ppm for the evening dose so the wrasses can be more comfortable during treatments. If the biological cycle does not take a hit and remains steady, I'll dose around 50 ppm twice a day until the dosing unit comes. If I start to lose cycle again, I'll drop the dosage more, add Prime add Microbacter7 to try to keep it going during treatment.

As @Jessica did not take her pellet reactor offline, I left mine up and running this time. I also left the mechanical filtration going (2 socks and protein skimmer line draining into one sock). One large Marine Pure Block remains in the sump to support biological filtration. No carbon is running. I did not take the 2 Oxydator Cs offline. They remain in the MD running with 6% H202 and one catalyst in each.

While the wrasses did their usual hovering around the sand after the morning dose, by the afternoon, all fish seemed to settle down. No losses. Flashing continues. No hovering in powerheads. The Yellow tang did not eat this morning again. I dosed H202 after the morning broadcast feeding. Tank remains at hyposalinity level or at 15 ppt.

I'll set things up for automatic dosing...maybe in the middle of @Jessica's recommendations of 1ml per 3-5 gal or 1ml per 4 gal day and night? based on @SKKY 's success with continuous nighttime dosing. I'll post specifics after I get the doser and get everything set up and running. If anyone sees anything wrong with this plan, please, please, don't hesitate to say something!

Pictures: Yellow tang is back to hiding, inactive, not eating; wrasses hide near sand after dosing; Long nose hawkfish hanging out near top of tank but not gulping air as before -behavior may mean nothing. Fish observed daily flashing; Ornate wrasse, starry eyed blenny, flame tail blenny, but maybe more fish that I just didn't catch.

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 20)
Update: Day 33

A big negative...I am losing my cycle again. I'm dosing Microbacter7 daily to try to save what I can of it and I will add some Prime tonight as well. I will do a large water change this weekend. I cut H202 down to 4 cups on day 31 and 32 for both morning and evening dose. I cut dose down to 1 cup on day 33 for the morning dose. I dosed 3/4 cup or 177.441 ml, close to 1 ml per gal, for the evening dose. If the cycle stabilizes at this dose, I leave it there. If not, I'll drop dosage again to about 1 ml per 4 gal as earlier planned.

The doser came in and I tried to get it setup last night. Nothing I did could get it working. I finally called Chewy and they are sending me a new one. It is scheduled to be here on Nov. 1st., so the night dosing is still on hold.

A positive: My yellow tang, while I do not consider it out of danger yet, actually picked at some food today! Oh happy day! All the negative are worth dealing with to see this fish eat!