My struggle with Velvet, and Peroxide as a promising tool

[Sashaka]

First off, below is purely anecdotal. At this time, my research is mostly centered around using H2O2 as a bath treatment prior to a fish entering QT. To give the fish a better starting point by knocking off the worst pathogens. However, some like to push the boundaries, and I am happy to oblige provided they understand the risks:

Dosing 3% H2O2 in a reef tank: 1 ml per 10 gallons. Repeat every 12 hours for 30 days. Since light breaks H2O2 down, try to time your dosing to minimize light exposure. This dosing schedule has eliminated both velvet & uronema (confirmed). However, I cannot say it will work every single time as not enough testing has been done to confirm repeatability.

P.S. It appears 1 ml per 8 gallons is well tolerated too, but that dosage hasn't been tested as thoroughly as the above. BTW, people already use these doses to eliminate nuisance algae from their DT.

Dosing 3% H2O2 in a FOWLR: It appears 10 ml per gallon is being tolerated by fish only. However, this more aggressive approach has not been as thoroughly tested as the above so use extreme caution. I theorize though that this concentration (75ppm) is fine because all the gas exchange going on inside most DTs will cause the atoms to quickly release their bond, and H2O2 gets quicklu converted into oxygen + water.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

THANK YOU! I fully understand that trying H2O2 as a cure for velvet is experimenting with the life within my tank and that not you nor any other persons contributing to this thread are advocating the use of H202 as a treatment for velvet. No worries! If I do this, I take on the responsibility for my actions and do it at my own risk. I just don't want to blow it because I don't understand the lingo. So, I appreciate the guidance, without which I would certainly fail. I already use an oxidator for added oxygen (I have frequent power outages in my area) and for water clarity, though I know dosing H2O2 directly in the tank is a new ball game.

 

[Sashaka]

I suspect velvet. Even with all my paranoid care of treating fish before they enter the 180 gal, I think something slipped by when I added a blue spot puffer. The puffer went through 30 days of CopperPower. I confirmed flukes on it and treated it in the sick tank with two rounds of Prazipro as well before adding it to the MD. I though all was well. Then the puffer ended up growing a brown cyst-like growth near its anus. Research suggested it was a type of worm and not a cyst at all. I pulled the puffer, did some quick surgery, and put the puffer back in the sick tank. The puffer developed many dark spots such as I've seen in pictures on other fish that had been suffering from severe cases of flukes or black ich?...sort of like dark bruises - not infection looking at all.

In the meantime, the fish in the MD tank started scratching. After reading a few threads about Prazi resistant flukes here on R2R (I still thought this was the only problem) I decided to dose the MD with Prazipro until I could purchase some Fenbendazole. I didn't have the funds to purchase it right away. I only get paid every two weeks. I got paid today...so I will be ordering it tonight or tomorrow. In the meantime, I've had time to dose the MD with 2 rounds of Prazipro. The fish seemed a little better, but still not well. Then the end of last week several fish started swimming in the power head. A few are scratching. The yellow tang is not eating well and my flame hawkfish has been missing for three days now. He was always one of the first fish to come to breakfast. I don't want to wait until I lose more fish to do something. Like the OP, I have too many fish that have grown too large to consider removing them all to sick tanks now. There are no visible signs of illness on any fish that I can see, just the behaviors that suggest velvet may be hiding in the gills.

 

[Sashaka]

Double post

 

[CuzzA]

Display tank responding great to cp and prazi. Humblefish ill have to give you our dosing we have attempted to redose to offset biofilm half life issues. No anthias issues. All fish appear normal. No scratching.

You dive, yes? Let me know if you need someone to take care of any fish problems. They get outta line, they get whacked. Or if you want to get some dives in off Tampa Bay.

 

[Hedgedrew]

You dive, yes? Let me know if you need someone to take care of any fish problems. They get outta line, they get whacked. Or if you want to get some dives in off Tampa Bay.

Something not so appealing about going in the malaria and worm medicine water now!

 

[CuzzA]

Something not so appealing about going in the malaria and worm medicine water now!

Haha. Imagine what's flowing out the Mississippi into the Gulf... Or the East River for that matter. Still taste good to me.

 

[CuzzA]

Bathroom QT. Could be worse. At least I have my RODI installed in there. Busted out my old 20 gallon poly container for making water and at least I have a sink.

I caught the Angel, Clowns, Yasha Gobies and Firefish. All got 30 minute peroxide baths then transferred to QT. I decided to use a 20 long instead. I still need to catch the Springeri, Midas and the two barnacle blennies. I'll try tomorrow. Velvet sucks. I'll be doing my own strict qt from now on.

The Purple firefish did not take the bath well. Started getting the chokes and I pulled it at 27 minutes. Not sure if it will survive.

 

[Sashaka]

Bathroom QT. Could be worse. At least I have my RODI installed in there. Busted out my old 20 gallon poly container for making water and at least I have a sink.

I caught the Angel, Clowns, Yasha Gobies and Firefish. All got 30 minute peroxide baths then transferred to QT. I decided to use a 20 long instead. I still need to catch the Springeri, Midas and the two barnacle blennies. I'll try tomorrow. Velvet sucks. I'll be doing my own strict qt from now on.

The Purple firefish did not take the bath well. Started getting the chokes and I pulled it at 27 minutes. Not sure if it will survive.

Looks like a good setup!

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank
(Note: A more complete but also imperfect separate written diary was kept but not posted at this time)

Dilution chart below was found online; math for dosing was contributed by my son and compared to suggested dosing amounts in this thread before adopting for the treatment plan; pictures included in the visual diary were taken with a Galaxy 10 cell phone and are mostly of poor picture quality and totally my fault. Tank clarity was good throughout treatment, though some pictures look milky because they were taken though dirty tank glass or snapped after broadcast feeding; however, I believe tank clarity went from good to excellent by day 3 of dosing.

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist, not an expert in fish disease or cures, and I am not advocating that anyone attempt to use H202 as a treatment for their fish. I am a saltwater hobbyist who found the information in this thread timely and promising. Dosing H202 for velvet or any other disease could be dangerous, even deadly to aquatic life. There is not enough research available on the topic to understand short or long term effects, exact dosage amounts, lengths of treatments for different pathogens, and sensitivity of specific species of fish to H202 treatments, etc. All these things and more need to be determined through scientific research, not anecdotal hobbyists dabbling with the theory of its use before one can recommend H202 as a valid and safe treatment option over known treatment plans such as copper and CP.

Unfortunately for me, my fish have already been through copper and CP as well as Prazipro treatments, and I have too many fish that have grown too large to consider setting up the many sick tanks needed to retreat with copper and/or CP. I feel treating the main display is my only option and H202 is the lesser evil to dose the main display, so I enter into this experimental treatment plan with more than a little trepidation. I provide this visual diary to further knowledge on the topic, if it can be of any use to the more scientifically learned in our community.

As there is a lot of information with some of it still ongoing, it will be submitted in separate posts as I put the information together.

I used the following chart found online to dilute 35% food grade H202. Dosage amounts determined as listed and contributed by my son.

USE THIS AMOUNT OF 35% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE	AND THIS AMOUNT OF WATER*	TO MAKE THIS AMOUNT OF 3% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE
1 part	11 parts	12 parts
1 and 1/4 cups	14 and 3/4 cups	1 gallon (16 cups)
1 and 1/4 tablespoons	3/4 cups + 2 and 3/4 tablespoons	1 cup (16 tablespoons)
1/4 cup + 1 tablespoon	3 and 1/2 cups + 3 tablespoons	1 quart (4 cups)

Diary Day 1: Dosing formulas to be used

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 2)

Day 1: Pictures
Main focus is on fish that show the most symptoms of flashing, hiding, hovering on the bottom of the tank, swimming near the surface and/or gulping air, swimming in the powerhead stream, weight loss/lack of appetite, and visual marks on fish

• Pretreatment full tank picture
• Pretreatment Pellet Reactor taken offline
• Pretreatment Removal of CUC
• Pretreatment 30 gal water change

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 3)

Day 1: Pictures
Main focus is on fish that show the most symptoms of flashing, hiding, hovering on the bottom of the tank, swimming near the surface and/or gulping air, swimming in the powerhead stream, weight loss/lack of appetite, and visual marks on fish

• Yellow tang hiding, not eating; red marks on dorsal fin (possible septicemia or secondary infection); hovers in power head; rapid or labored breathing is constant
• Yellow wrasse, eating but has dark area on head below dorsal spot; hovering around on the sand instead of swimming around
• Long nose hawkfish also hovering at bottom of the tank but also swims frequently to the surface and hovers there, sometimes gulps air, seems agitated
• Regal tang, eating well but hides often when not eating, hovers frequently in power head when out of hiding; seems slightly paler in color than it used to be but no film or other signs of illness on its body
• Banner fish also started hovering in stream from the powerhead

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 4)

Day 1:

• Using dilution chart, 35% H202 is added to a clean, empty gallon milk jug and filled with RODI water to make 3% H202; measured Mason Jar used to measure dosage for tank , a total of 7.2 cups per dose
• Dosing directly into tank's return flow
  • Note: Initial dose administered in the evening at 6+1/2 cup, a slightly weaker dosage to see how fish react.
  • Both engineer gobies become agitated after dosage is administered and within minutes are out in the open and swimming the length of the 6 foot tank, something they usually only do after lights out and other fish have gone to bed. Close observation reveals normal respiration. After about 5 minutes, both settle down and return to their respective favorite hiding spots.
  • Yellow tang hiding under favorite ledge, breathing heavily, but was breathing heavily before treatment; can see slight red streaks on dorsal before treatment
  • Long nose hawkfish observed swimming near the surface and gulping air, but was doing this before treatment
  • Bannerfish observed swimming in powerhead earlier; After dosing, they are swimming slowly with Vagabond and CB. This is normal nighttime behaviors for these fish.
  • Other fish peeking out of nighttime dwellings, but do not seem stress otherwise
  • Copperband seems unaffected by H202 dosage and is not symptomatic

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 5)

Day 2: Full 7.2 cups added both morning and evening to the return flow in MD about 12 hours apart

• Ornate and Moyer's wrasses swim together when nervous and do so after each dose is administered before jumping into the sand. Moyer's is still fat and eating well and is not symptomatic
• McCosker's hides after dosing, Splendid Pintail continues to swim near the surface of the water frequently. Both react by swimming around quickly for a few minutes after dosing
• Regal tang swims near the power head but does not hover in it at all during 20 min. observation after dosing
• Yellow tang seems improved, eats a tiny bit, may have spit out more than it ate, very, very thin; septicemia on clamped dorsal fin seems improved, but it does not raise the dorsal fin much; It is coming out of hiding some today whereas it did not come out yesterday that I observed.
• Flametail blenny and Ornate wrasse observed flashing but couldn't get a picture; Ornate has lost some weight over the last few weeks but not too much. It is still eating.
• Longnose Hawkfish still observed still swimming up to surface and gulping air occasionally

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 6)

Day 3: Salinity test reveals spot on 35ppm but PH has dropped today. This tank is fairly stable and does not often have PH swings; however it does happen occasionally, so I'm not sure if it is due to dosing or a PH night swing. Test was conducted first thing in the morning. PH buffer was added to correct.

• Yellow wrasse is definitely looking better. Dark area on head near dorsal fin seems much smaller and lighter
• Regal tang does not swim in power heads at all today during observation times. It was spending half it's time in power head before treatment, nor are any other fish that were swimming in power heads before treatment continuing that behavior today. Duration for most observations last about 20 minutes
• Yellow tang still not eating much but seems interested. Color looks brighter (could be water clarity is better) but septicemia appears to be completely gone. It is not clamping the dorsal fin down as much today. Maybe it hurts less?

 

[Sashaka]

Visual Diary of H202 Dosing in 180 Gallon Saltwater FOWLR Tank (page 6* continued)
Day 3 and Page 6 takes us to the end of the current day. I will try to take more pictures and post progress of day 4 tomorrow. I also want to do another check on ammonia and nitrates tomorrow. The tank was at zero ammonia and between 12-15 nitrates after the water change before starting the H202 dosing. I''m not sure an ammonia badge will work with H202 in the water, or even if an API liquid ammonia test kit will read correctly, but I'll give both a shot tomorrow. If anyone knows which is more likely to work with H202 in the water, let me know!

Quick note: My skimmer pump bit the dust on day 2 of dosing. A media bag string got caught in the propeller, Sheesh! Totally human error, but I had to order a new pump. It should be here in 5 to 7 days, but I don't want nitrates to creep up while I'm waiting for the new pump to come in and stress out the fish more. While most fish are tolerating the treatment well, when I first dose it in the tank, it is clear the engineer gobys and the wrasses hate the stuff! I will change out the two socks every few days to help control excess nutrients while I wait for the pump to come in and I will cross my fingers that nothing else goes wrong during this treatment. I will also try to feed less to control nutrients, but no promises. I have a few really skinny fish trying to recuperate, and my maternal instincts can't stand to see them hungry, LOL. I'll say goodnight for now and try to post more tomorrow.

I'm not sure how many days to keep dosing the tank. I was thinking 10 days at this strength. Any thoughts about this?

P.S. Sorry about the picture quality. I took a ton of pictures each day, but I'm not very good at catching fish swimming without ending up with blurry pics, though the Regal tang finally held still for the candid camera shot today and you can finally see how fat and nicely colored he really looks...really healthy so his behavior to sit in front of the power head half the day was disheartening. I'm excited that he seems to feel so much better.

 

[CuzzA]

Nice work @Sashaka.

So, I have a question for the gang. All fish but the damnn damsel are in the 20 gallon qt. I was able to get it to cycle with Bio Spira. I have still been dosing 2ml of h2o2 every 12 hours, but since they are no longer in a reef, what could I dose safely to treat the fish? I was going to hybrid TTM them tonight as it will have been 72 hours, but I'd really hate to bust up a cycled qt. Not to mention it's NYE and we're hosting a party so time is not on my side. I have not started Copper Power because fish still look okay and I'd rather use the Chloroquine Phosphate, but I fear that won't arrive until Thursday or Friday with the holiday. So what do you guys think I should do?

 

[Hedgedrew]

Nice work @Sashaka.

So, I have a question for the gang. All fish but the damnn damsel are in the 20 gallon qt. I was able to get it to cycle with Bio Spira. I have still been dosing 2ml of h2o2 every 12 hours, but since they are no longer in a reef, what could I dose safely to treat the fish? I was going to hybrid TTM them tonight as it will have been 72 hours, but I'd really hate to bust up a cycled qt. Not to mention it's NYE and we're hosting a party so time is not on my side. I have not started Copper Power because fish still look okay and I'd rather use the Chloroquine Phosphate, but I fear that won't arrive until Thursday or Friday with the holiday. So what do you guys think I should do?

Theres lot more research on what you could do in a 30 min bath. And i have no idea what the official protocol is in a sterile qt tank. But in a display tank with no coral people have gone 10ml per gallon And maybe higher.

 

[Hedgedrew]

Theres lot more research on what you could do in a 30 min bath. And i have no idea what the official protocol is in a sterile qt tank. But in a display tank with no coral people have gone 10ml per gallon And maybe higher.

I think shashaka in post above you is there or higher using 35 per stuff

 

[Sashaka]

I think shashaka in post above you is there or higher using 35 per stuff

Yes, but I am diluting 35% food grade H202 with RODI water down to 3% before dosing. I felt it would be easier to dispense it in the tank at this dilution than to take a chance that a fish might gulp in 35% H202 accidentally...Yikes!

 

[CuzzA]

Yeah, I have a tad bit crowded 20 long qt, so I could create an emergency if I'm not careful.