Marine velvet issue

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, the aquarium we purchased the fish from diagnosed for us. All the symptoms you mention above were present including a loss of colour and shedding of scales. See attached photos/videos

Thanks. Appreciate it

This looks more like Brooklynella disease but need pics under white light intensity to confirm

 

[Jimbhoy13]

Welcome to R2R Ricky. Sorry for your losses. I can’t get the videos to play

. Hope you get it sorted soon.
Are you Chorley UK?
You can get the UK banner here: Click Account then “Join User Group”, scroll to the bottom and click on “United Kingdom User Group‘’

 

[FrugalReefer]

Sorry for your losses but there are a lot of good folks on this forum that can help you out.

 

[rickytom]

This looks more like Brooklynella disease but need pics under white light intensity to confirm

Thanks for taking time to review. Unfortunately the coral beauty is heavily infected and hides away, as does the fire fish, so no videos under white light. Based on info provided have I done anything wrong in my approach (I've tried to be as cautious as possible). Also will a follow tank for 72 days resolve the problem

 

[kevgib67]

Welcome, glad you are here! Sorry for the rough start.

 

[CoralB]

Welcome !!

 

[threebuoys]

Sorry for your loss and the stress you are experiencing. I'm glad your LFS credited you for at least some of the fish you had purchased from them. I think the LFS did a poor job of supporting you as you sought assistance in diagnosing and treating your fish. As others have said, the medication they recommended (ethacridine) has no value in treating the ailments likely to be present.

Sourcing copper and formalin medications can be difficult in some countries including England. @vetteguy53081 and @Sharkbait19 will provide valuable information for you.

When you have time, I suggest you scan the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum. A wealth of information can be found there.

Good Luck.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi all

I would like to ask you for some advise on the probable cause of fish deaths in my marine tank (apologies for being a little long winded)

I bought the established fish tank with fish (2 clown and one coral beauty) a few months ago. Before I purchased any further fish, I ensured environmental conditions were settled and non of existing fish were exhibiting any signs of disease/parasites by waiting for a period of approx 6 weeks.

After 6 weeks passed we purchased 2 bannerfish from an aquarium, which settled in really well/fed well and had no behavioural problems.

Approx one week the aquarium received and new stock of fish including Royal gramma and 3 days later we were allowed to purchase it. The fish settled in and although hiding, fed straight away. However after approx 4 days of having the it stopped feeding. I saw it a day or 2 later upside down and contacted the aquarium as was concerned. They advised this is usual behaviour and not to worry. The following day (Xmas eve) it was dead. This followed with the 2 bannerfish dying hours apart on Xmas day with loss of colour, rapid breathing, twitching. When I contacted the aquarium after boxing day they told me to bring water sample for testing, howver these were all well within acceptable parameters as I'm an ex water quality scientist and well maintain my aquarium. I advised it sounded like a parasite had introduced by the new fish esp as it was the royal grammar died first within days of entering the tank. The aquarium dismissed this suggestion and advised it was an ammonia spike or external contaminant. Again due to my background I believed this was not the case.

Then a few days later, one of the clownfish which has been in there from the beginning without symptoms began with the same as the bannerfish and died that day. I rang the aquarium and they again tried to say was ammonia spike but to send them pictures. At this point they confirmed as velvet and suggested i try treatment treatment. After approx 3 days of treatment, my other clown showed symptoms and died that days. I continued treatment for a further 3 days but finally my coral beauty also died of the same. I obviously believe that the most likely scenario would be the royal gramma brought the velvet into the tank.
The aquarium has advised that due to the gramma dying and not being noticed straight away will have started an ammonia spike. This will have caused the other fish especially the wimple’s to become stressed, the fish loosing colour and struggling to breath are the main symptoms of an ammonia spike.

They went onto advise that in relation to the velvet that broke out after the fish death. This can be a common occurrence in marine tanks due to the nature of velvet. Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank, it’s a free swimming organism that very easily turns parasitic. As with almost all parasitic infections, most fish can fight off minor infections providing their immune system is strong however can infect any fish at any time.

We agree as a team that the cost of the royal gramma should be reimbursed to yourselves as it didn’t settle, and although the circumstances of the wimple fish was out of our control and as a gesture of good will also reimburse you for the two wimple fish also.

As a result of the above I find out extremely hard to believe that there was a fish death caused by an ammonia spike, followed immediately by an outbreak of velvet which killed the remaining fish in the tank. The aquarium has also failed to provide explanation as to why the royal gramma died.

Therefore I would really appreciate some external expert advice of the situation above

It somewhat depends on how big the dead fish how established your filter was and how long it as left in the tank. If it was a short while, I tend to agree with you that an ammonia spike would be less likely than a disease. If it was a disease it seems like velvet would be 'quicker'. Flukes would also be possible - since breathing was also off. I cannot view the video. I would also ask - do you keep the same specific gravity in your tanks as the fish shop? Though I doubt this was an issue - it can be.

Do you have any plans to treat your current fish - I see there are other responses, however my browser is acting up and many of them are garbled. I would consider treating all of the fish with copper followed by Prazipro.

EDIt - refreshed - can now read - but can't see the video. As @vetteguy53081 said brooklnella is possible. I have not seen it spread this way to multiple fish quickly, a picture of especially the flame angel under white like would be very helpful - as already discussed. If the fish's breathing is as bad as you say, I would consider (if you can get it - and you can't get copper, etc). Ruby Reef Rally. Copper and prazipro per protocol would usually be used in a QT tank setting. I will suggest that 'time is of the essence with many of these diseases' with regards to treatment.

PS - though velvet can probably be present in a tank, the most likely thing is that one of your new fish brought it in. Best luck and welcome to the site

 

[rickytom]

Sorry for your loss and the stress you are experiencing. I'm glad your LFS credited you for at least some of the fish you had purchased from them. I think the LFS did a poor job of supporting you as you sought assistance in diagnosing and treating your fish. As others have said, the medication they recommended (ethacridine) has no value in treating the ailments likely to be present.

Sourcing copper and formalin medications can be difficult in some countries including England. @vetteguy53081 and @Sharkbait19 will provide valuable information for you.

When you have time, I suggest you scan the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum. A wealth of information can be found there.

Good Luck.

Thanks, yes the info provide has allowed me to challenge the LFS and take it further. Unfortunately all the fish have died so will will have to leave the tank fallow for a number of weeks before I start again. I'll put it down to experience but have copper/formalin treatment ready for the future

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all

I would like to ask you for some advise on the probable cause of fish deaths in my marine tank (apologies for being a little long winded)

I bought the established fish tank with fish (2 clown and one coral beauty) a few months ago. Before I purchased any further fish, I ensured environmental conditions were settled and non of existing fish were exhibiting any signs of disease/parasites by waiting for a period of approx 6 weeks.

After 6 weeks passed we purchased 2 bannerfish from an aquarium, which settled in really well/fed well and had no behavioural problems.

Approx one week the aquarium received and new stock of fish including Royal gramma and 3 days later we were allowed to purchase it. The fish settled in and although hiding, fed straight away. However after approx 4 days of having the it stopped feeding. I saw it a day or 2 later upside down and contacted the aquarium as was concerned. They advised this is usual behaviour and not to worry. The following day (Xmas eve) it was dead. This followed with the 2 bannerfish dying hours apart on Xmas day with loss of colour, rapid breathing, twitching. When I contacted the aquarium after boxing day they told me to bring water sample for testing, howver these were all well within acceptable parameters as I'm an ex water quality scientist and well maintain my aquarium. I advised it sounded like a parasite had introduced by the new fish esp as it was the royal grammar died first within days of entering the tank. The aquarium dismissed this suggestion and advised it was an ammonia spike or external contaminant. Again due to my background I believed this was not the case.

Then a few days later, one of the clownfish which has been in there from the beginning without symptoms began with the same as the bannerfish and died that day. I rang the aquarium and they again tried to say was ammonia spike but to send them pictures. At this point they confirmed as velvet and suggested i try treatment treatment. After approx 3 days of treatment, my other clown showed symptoms and died that days. I continued treatment for a further 3 days but finally my coral beauty also died of the same. I obviously believe that the most likely scenario would be the royal gramma brought the velvet into the tank.
The aquarium has advised that due to the gramma dying and not being noticed straight away will have started an ammonia spike. This will have caused the other fish especially the wimple’s to become stressed, the fish loosing colour and struggling to breath are the main symptoms of an ammonia spike.

They went onto advise that in relation to the velvet that broke out after the fish death. This can be a common occurrence in marine tanks due to the nature of velvet. Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank, it’s a free swimming organism that very easily turns parasitic. As with almost all parasitic infections, most fish can fight off minor infections providing their immune system is strong however can infect any fish at any time.

We agree as a team that the cost of the royal gramma should be reimbursed to yourselves as it didn’t settle, and although the circumstances of the wimple fish was out of our control and as a gesture of good will also reimburse you for the two wimple fish also.

As a result of the above I find out extremely hard to believe that there was a fish death caused by an ammonia spike, followed immediately by an outbreak of velvet which killed the remaining fish in the tank. The aquarium has also failed to provide explanation as to why the royal gramma died.

Therefore I would really appreciate some external expert advice of the situation above

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It does sound like it could have been Amyloodinium/Velvet. Some additional points will solidify that though:

Did any fish survive the whole process? If so, what species?
Are the invertebrates in the tank doing well? If so, you can almost 100% rule out water quality issues - those will harm shrimp, snails and corals long before harming the fish.

They told you: "Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank,..." That is untrue. The virulent life cycle of Amyloodinium means that if is is present, it goes into an acute infection.

Here is an excerpt I wrote up about this disease:

Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can create severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 24 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look. Symptoms include rapid breathing (greater than 140 beats per minute) and hovering in the current from pumps.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success. Amine-based copper medications for 30 days is also effective.

Performing a five-minute freshwater dip can buy some time in order to develop a full treatment. Hydrogen peroxide dips at 75 to 100 ppm and moving the fish to a sterile aquarium has been used in aquaculture. Lowering the tank’s temperature is rarely effective. Likewise, hyposalinity treatments (sometimes recommended for Cryptocaryon treatments) will not work for Amyloodinium.


Jay

 

[rickytom]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It does sound like it could have been Amyloodinium/Velvet. Some additional points will solidify that though:

Did any fish survive the whole process? If so, what species?
Are the invertebrates in the tank doing well? If so, you can almost 100% rule out water quality issues - those will harm shrimp, snails and corals long before harming the fish.

They told you: "Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank,..." That is untrue. The virulent life cycle of Amyloodinium means that if is is present, it goes into an acute infection.

Here is an excerpt I wrote up about this disease:

Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can create severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 24 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look. Symptoms include rapid breathing (greater than 140 beats per minute) and hovering in the current from pumps.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success. Amine-based copper medications for 30 days is also effective.

Performing a five-minute freshwater dip can buy some time in order to develop a full treatment. Hydrogen peroxide dips at 75 to 100 ppm and moving the fish to a sterile aquarium has been used in aquaculture. Lowering the tank’s temperature is rarely effective. Likewise, hyposalinity treatments (sometimes recommended for Cryptocaryon treatments) will not work for Amyloodinium.


Jay

Hi Jay

Thanks for this, really useful information.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It does sound like it could have been Amyloodinium/Velvet. Some additional points will solidify that though:

Did any fish survive the whole process? If so, what species?
Are the invertebrates in the tank doing well? If so, you can almost 100% rule out water quality issues - those will harm shrimp, snails and corals long before harming the fish.

They told you: "Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank,..." That is untrue. The virulent life cycle of Amyloodinium means that if is is present, it goes into an acute infection.

Here is an excerpt I wrote up about this disease:

Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can create severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 24 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look. Symptoms include rapid breathing (greater than 140 beats per minute) and hovering in the current from pumps.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success. Amine-based copper medications for 30 days is also effective.

Performing a five-minute freshwater dip can buy some time in order to develop a full treatment. Hydrogen peroxide dips at 75 to 100 ppm and moving the fish to a sterile aquarium has been used in aquaculture. Lowering the tank’s temperature is rarely effective. Likewise, hyposalinity treatments (sometimes recommended for Cryptocaryon treatments) will not work for Amyloodinium.


Jay

Hi Jay

Thanks for the info. This issue was posted on another forum a few days ago in which the guys on there were able to diagnose as brooklynella. This was mainly due to my photos showing a muscus/skin slewing off my clownfish. Unfortunately it has wiped out all my fish now. So I'm just in the process of gathering evidence to show the LFS got the whole situation wrong, provided incorrect information and more importantly supplied the fish that introduced this parasite

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay

Thanks for this, really useful information.

Hi Jay

Thanks for the info. This issue was posted on another forum a few days ago in which the guys on there were able to diagnose as brooklynella. This was mainly due to my photos showing a muscus/skin slewing off my clownfish. Unfortunately it has wiped out all my fish now. So I'm just in the process of gathering evidence to show the LFS got the whole situation wrong, provided incorrect information and more importantly supplied the fish that introduced this parasite

I'm not convinced this was Brooklynella, but without looking at it under a microscope, nobody can say for sure.

Most protozoan diseases cause the fish to create mucus. With Brooklynella, the mucus is one of the first things you see, while with Amyloodinium and ich, you don't see it until the fish is closer to death. Also, Brooklynella doesn't have rapid breathing as an early, primary symptom. Additionally, Brooklynella may not kill every fish in the tank, it hits certain fish hard (like clownfish of course) but other fish may get by unscathed. The black clown is showing spots, which is not typical of Brooklynella.

If you showed me the pictures of the orange clown, out of context, I would say it has Brooklynella. However, the other clues tend to rule that out as the primary issue.

In the end it is also possible for fish to have multiple protozoan infections at the same time.

Jay

 

[rickytom]

I'm not convinced this was Brooklynella, but without looking at it under a microscope, nobody can say for sure.

Most protozoan diseases cause the fish to create mucus. With Brooklynella, the mucus is one of the first things you see, while with Amyloodinium and ich, you don't see it until the fish is closer to death. Also, Brooklynella doesn't have rapid breathing as an early, primary symptom. Additionally, Brooklynella may not kill every fish in the tank, it hits certain fish hard (like clownfish of course) but other fish may get by unscathed. The black clown is showing spots, which is not typical of Brooklynella.

If you showed me the pictures of the orange clown, out of context, I would say it has Brooklynella. However, the other clues tend to rule that out as the primary issue.

In the end it is also possible for fish to have multiple protozoan infections at the same time.

Jay

Here are the photos and video of the orange clown towards the end. The rapid breathing only presented at the very end from what I observed. As previously stated it looks to have wiped out all the tank. Starting with the royal gramma (If I assume werenit started), then 2 banner fish a day later. Then 2 clowns 4 days after that and finally a coral beauty 3 days after that.

Here

 

[MnFish1]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It does sound like it could have been Amyloodinium/Velvet. Some additional points will solidify that though:

Did any fish survive the whole process? If so, what species?
Are the invertebrates in the tank doing well? If so, you can almost 100% rule out water quality issues - those will harm shrimp, snails and corals long before harming the fish.

They told you: "Most established marine tanks will have the organism that causes velvet (oodinium) in the tank,..." That is untrue. The virulent life cycle of Amyloodinium means that if is is present, it goes into an acute infection.

Here is an excerpt I wrote up about this disease:

Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can create severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 24 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look. Symptoms include rapid breathing (greater than 140 beats per minute) and hovering in the current from pumps.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success. Amine-based copper medications for 30 days is also effective.

Performing a five-minute freshwater dip can buy some time in order to develop a full treatment. Hydrogen peroxide dips at 75 to 100 ppm and moving the fish to a sterile aquarium has been used in aquaculture. Lowering the tank’s temperature is rarely effective. Likewise, hyposalinity treatments (sometimes recommended for Cryptocaryon treatments) will not work for Amyloodinium.


Jay

@Jay Hemdal
I actually was going to ask you something because or anecdotal reports here on R2R, whether its possible for a low-level velvet to be present in a tank with low stocking density, to which the fish have some immunity, which leads to its persistence. I have always said no - but when I read what the OP said - I changed my thought to 'maybe' based on other comments here.

To the OP - So sorry you lost all of your fish. I would do a 6 week fallow period - and strongly consider (in the meantime) - setting up a quarantine tank - with which you can do whichever protocol you choose - the one we recommend is posted on a sticky above.

 

[MnFish1]

BTW - The pictures you sent certainly look like Brooklynella to me - but there are some oddities as well. Thanks for all of your excellent information

 

[Jay Hemdal]

BTW - The pictures you sent certainly look like Brooklynella to me - but there are some oddities as well. Thanks for all of your excellent information

The spots on the black clown don’t match up. Also the clowns being second to last to die doesn’t line up either. The rapid breathing only at the end wasn’t noted in the first post, so that actually points away from velvet.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal
I actually was going to ask you something because or anecdotal reports here on R2R, whether its possible for a low-level velvet to be present in a tank with low stocking density, to which the fish have some immunity, which leads to its persistence. I have always said no - but when I read what the OP said - I changed my thought to 'maybe' based on other comments here.

To the OP - So sorry you lost all of your fish. I would do a 6 week fallow period - and strongly consider (in the meantime) - setting up a quarantine tank - with which you can do whichever protocol you choose - the one we recommend is posted on a sticky above.

I’ve never had velvet persist in chronic phases like ich so often does.

Jay

 

[rickytom]

I'm not convinced this was Brooklynella, but without looking at it under a microscope, nobody can say for sure.

Most protozoan diseases cause the fish to create mucus. With Brooklynella, the mucus is one of the first things you see, while with Amyloodinium and ich, you don't see it until the fish is closer to death. Also, Brooklynella doesn't have rapid breathing as an early, primary symptom. Additionally, Brooklynella may not kill every fish in the tank, it hits certain fish hard (like clownfish of course) but other fish may get by unscathed. The black clown is showing spots, which is not typical of Brooklynella.

If you showed me the pictures of the orange clown, out of context, I would say it has Brooklynella. However, the other clues tend to rule that out as the primary issue.

In the end it is also possible for fish to have multiple protozoan infections at the same time.

Jay

Here are the photos and video of the orange clown towards the end. The rapid breathing only presented at the very end from what I observed. As previously stated it looks to have wiped out all the tank. Starting with the royal gramma (If I assume werenit started), then 2 banner fish a day later. Then 2 clowns 4 days after that and finally a coral beauty 3 days after that. I think.

Here

The spots on the black clown don’t match up. Also the clowns being second to last to die doesn’t line up either. The rapid breathing only at the end wasn’t noted in the first post, so that actually points away from velvet.
Jay

Hi Jay

Thanks for your help, much appreciated