Lyretail Anthias autopsy - Help me diagnose the cause of death

[Katze]

Hello everyone !

This is quite a sad day for me, my 2nd fish passed today. After 4-5 days of battling with whatever it was...

What to know about the system she lived in:

2 yrs old
4 fish - The anthias
Never had any diseases in my systems, my last added fish was a scopas who currently lives in my 100g tank.
The tang was added in the 1st year of the tank, 3 months after cycle. So it was rather long ago.

Symptoms:
-She ate well each day regardless of the symptoms-
1st day
Nothing unusual except she swam less than last day

3rd day
She was lethargic moved less and less

4th day
now she was hiding

5th day (today)

During the morning feeding she did not come out, in fact she was breathing rapidly
~8 hrs later she is dead...

 

[Katze]

 

[vetteguy53081]

This one is puzzling as it does not show the common uronema, mouth is not open indicating oxygen issues, in fact fish's body is clean, not even signs of aggression. The belly has a blemish which can be post-mortem and fish is a hair thin but I also see bump on the head which may have been an impact injury
As you noticed loss of appetite or hiding prior to loss, may be early start of flukes or other irritants but hard to say
What foods were you feeding?

 

[Katze]

This one is puzzling as it does not show the common uronema, mouth is not open indicating oxygen issues, in fact fish's body is clean, not even signs of aggression. The belly has a blemish which can be post-mortem and fish is a hair thin but I also see bump on the head which may have been an impact injury
As you noticed loss of appetite or hiding prior to loss, may be early start of flukes or other irritants but hard to say
What foods were you feeding?

She only ate mysis, I started to add vitamins to it on day 2.

 

[Katze]

Actually, she had a white spot on the right side of her fore head.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Actually, she had a white spot on the right side of her fore head.

That is my suspect cause but cant confirm. This fish cannot survive on mysis alone and needs a wide variety. Too much mysis can cause excess mucus in the stomach lining. other foods would be brine shrimp, plankton, chopped krill, mussel, TDO or Sera pellets, and variety pack such as LRS Fish Frenzy

 

[MnFish1]

I'm going to take a slightly different tack - since I don't remember your other posts - its usually best to continue posting in the same thread as original so that pests like me don't ask you to regurgitate what. you've already written. 2 fish deaths (and I'm assuming no invertebrate deaths) - is most common for disease - If you could re-answer the questions in my signature - that will help us to help you. I can't tell anything from the picture of the (unfortunately) dead fish. And PS - sorry for the loss.

From my experience with anthers - unless you have a large group - they can tend to pick on the weakest - until it dies or starves (though this is a very short time for that possibility) - can you give any more information?

 

[Katze]

That is my suspect cause but cant confirm. This fish cannot survive on mysis alone and needs a wide variety. Too much mysis can cause excess mucus in the stomach lining. other foods would be brine shrimp, plankton, chopped krill, mussel, TDO or Sera pellets, and variety pack such as LRS Fish Frenzy

Yes I hate to feed only 1 thing but she simply did not eat anything other than mysis. She watched brine shrimps flakes and pellets just float away.

I am interested in a flavoguttatus anthias who is currently in my lfs luckily she eats everything (mysis pellets flakes and etc.) but partially what keeps me away from buying an anthias is the current death of one. Eventhough the saddleback would be in my 100g not the 55g.

I'm going to take a slightly different tack - since I don't remember your other posts - its usually best to continue posting in the same thread as original so that pests like me don't ask you to regurgitate what. you've already written. 2 fish deaths (and I'm assuming no invertebrate deaths) - is most common for disease - If you could re-answer the questions in my signature - that will help us to help you. I can't tell anything from the picture of the (unfortunately) dead fish. And PS - sorry for the loss.

From my experience with anthers - unless you have a large group - they can tend to pick on the weakest - until it dies or starves (though this is a very short time for that possibility) - can you give any more information?

She was alone, I did not even think about geting 1 or 2 more because of their aggressive behaviour towards eachother in smaller tanks.

The tank is 55g parameters in good condition, as they should be:
PO4: 0.0X
NO3: 10-25
NH3 and NO2 are unknown since my lfs doesn't have any test kits for these
25°C -controlled
1.025 SG

Yes there was another fish death back in october/november it was a dragonet actually.
I don't keep crustaceans, only corals and fish, nothing passed except the anthias.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes I hate to feed only 1 thing but she simply did not eat anything other than mysis. She watched brine shrimps flakes and pellets just float away.

I am interested in a flavoguttatus anthias who is currently in my lfs luckily she eats everything (mysis pellets flakes and etc.) but partially what keeps me away from buying an anthias is the current death of one. Eventhough the saddleback would be in my 100g not the 55g.


She was alone, I did not even think about geting 1 or 2 more because of their aggressive behaviour towards eachother in smaller tanks.

The tank is 55g parameters in good condition, as they should be:
PO4: 0.0X
NO3: 10-25
NH3 and NO2 are unknown since my lfs doesn't have any test kits for these
25°C -controlled
1.025 SG

Yes there was another fish death back in october/november it was a dragonet actually.
I don't keep crustaceans, only corals and fish, nothing passed except the anthias.

Again, the fish already had a dietary issue and Ive had one anthias before going to 6 and no issues with one only. Other factors that affect them are low salinity and uneaten food left in tank but skin would have a reaction

 

[MnFish1]

OK thanks - I have no new recommendations

 

[Stevorino]

That is my suspect cause but cant confirm. This fish cannot survive on mysis alone and needs a wide variety. Too much mysis can cause excess mucus in the stomach lining. other foods would be brine shrimp, plankton, chopped krill, mussel, TDO or Sera pellets, and variety pack such as LRS Fish Frenzy

Vette - Is this true across the board for most reef fish?

For no reason other than to be a good fish dad, I have started adding in a different mix of cubes to my daily feedings, but I'm now wondering if I should mix it up even more.

 

[MnFish1]

Vette - Is this true across the board for most reef fish?

For no reason other than to be a good fish dad, I have started adding in a different mix of cubes to my daily feedings, but I'm now wondering if I should mix it up even more.

Some fish may tolerate this diet - but it's unlikely that any animal would only live on one food. (OK forget copepods and mandarins - it could be something else)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Vette - Is this true across the board for most reef fish?

For no reason other than to be a good fish dad, I have started adding in a different mix of cubes to my daily feedings, but I'm now wondering if I should mix it up even more.

Its a fatty diet and a variety especially with this type of fish is a must/ Its like eating bread daily- we want to add fats, aminos and vitamins to our diet and again, mysis only will allow mucus buildup in stomach lining

 

[Katze]

Good to know these, thank you for your help IF I buy an anthias I'll make sure to provide a varied diet.

 

[MnFish1]

Good to know these, thank you for your help IF I buy an anthias I'll make sure to provide a varied diet.

I would also ensure that you know about their schooling behavior - Because - a small group of anthias - 3 will likely end up with 1 (or 2) deaths. 12 will not be an issue depending on the tank size and the individual fish (note I'm not recommending buying 12 fish)

 

[crabgrass]

I would also ensure that you know about their schooling behavior - Because - a small group of anthias - 3 will likely end up with 1 (or 2) deaths. 12 will not be an issue depending on the tank size and the individual fish (note I'm not recommending buying 12 fish)

This is a really useful thread. Both from @vetteguy53081 feedback and @MnFish1 . Thank you both.

@MnFish1 - do you have experience mixing Anthias? My examples is that I had 4 Carberry Anthias. One jumped out so down to 3. I am also a bit concerned about the lower number. Could I add 2-3 female Lyretail's, or best to stick with Carberry at this point? If its OK, would I end up with 1 Male Carberry and 1 Male Lyretail, and would that pose a problem?

Also, before any comments about lids, I have a lid on my aquarium. The fish jumped out of the only opening in the tank (a 3x4 section for my auto feeder..)

 

[MnFish1]

This is a really useful thread. Both from @vetteguy53081 feedback and @MnFish1 . Thank you both.

@MnFish1 - do you have experience mixing Anthias? My examples is that I had 4 Carberry Anthias. One jumped out so down to 3. I am also a bit concerned about the lower number. Could I add 2-3 female Lyretail's, or best to stick with Carberry at this point? If its OK, would I end up with 1 Male Carberry and 1 Male Lyretail, and would that pose a problem?

Also, before any comments about lids, I have a lid on my aquarium. The fish jumped out of the only opening in the tank (a 3x4 section for my auto feeder..)

I have no data or personal experience with those fish - however I would get more of the same type.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is a really useful thread. Both from @vetteguy53081 feedback and @MnFish1 . Thank you both.

@MnFish1 - do you have experience mixing Anthias? My examples is that I had 4 Carberry Anthias. One jumped out so down to 3. I am also a bit concerned about the lower number. Could I add 2-3 female Lyretail's, or best to stick with Carberry at this point? If its OK, would I end up with 1 Male Carberry and 1 Male Lyretail, and would that pose a problem?

Also, before any comments about lids, I have a lid on my aquarium. The fish jumped out of the only opening in the tank (a 3x4 section for my auto feeder..)

I have mixed anthias and the Carberry and disbar are notorious jumpers - My disbar gone due to jumping. The Lyretails are the easiest to add in, with exception of multiple males

 

[crabgrass]

I have mixed anthias and the Carberry and disbar are notorious jumpers - My disbar gone due to jumping. The Lyretails are the easiest to add in, with exception of multiple males

If I add 3 lyretails along with the existing Carberry, will the lyretails change sexes? Or remain female if there is a male Carberry?

 

[vetteguy53081]

If I add 3 lyretails along with the existing Carberry, will the lyretails change sexes? Or remain female if there is a male Carberry?

They are known to but dont believe mine dd the first 2 years. Ive had them now 5 years