Cause of Death Determination

[Jay Hemdal]

Purple tang

When did you dose the prazi? How many hours ago?

 

[Lostoften]

When did you dose the prazi? How many hours ago?

9/7 at 7:30pm 38.5 hours ago. Roughly 35 hours was when the picture of purple tang was taken

 

[Lostoften]

No one really eating, gem only one observed eating. Fed fish and now the clown swimming upside down.

 

[Lostoften]

Feeding at 38.75 hours post prazipro. Clown now lying in sand bed

 

[Lostoften]

Clown, now dead

 

[Lostoften]

9/7 at 7:30pm 38.5 hours ago. Roughly 35 hours was when the picture of purple tang was taken

This still following the expectation of flukes? Severe infection and fish dying due to them falling off?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

9/7 at 7:30pm 38.5 hours ago. Roughly 35 hours was when the picture of purple tang was taken

Ugh, prazi should have stopped symptom progression by now. With severe flukes, fish can become worse at first, as the flukes drop off, leaving open holes. However, if they make it 24 hours, they then begin to recover.

The clown’s symptom is likely going to be fatal.

There could be multiple issues in play here. Trouble is, any protozoan treatment would require that the fish be isolated from the invertebrates.

 

[Lostoften]

I have 40gallon breeder set up (unfortunately has a slow leak along back seal) and water is at temp, Salinity slightly (1.020) low just added more salt. I have coppersafe and a hanna copper tester if running copper is needed.

Ugh, prazi should have stopped symptom progression by now. With severe flukes, fish can become worse at first, as the flukes drop off, leaving open holes. However, if they make it 24 hours, they then begin to recover.

The clown’s symptom is likely going to be fatal.

There could be multiple issues in play here. Trouble is, any protozoan treatment would require that the fish be isolated from the invertebrates.

 

[Lostoften]

All the fish are less active today, but nine are hiding in corners of tank. Only have seen the blue morph when food was out but didn’t see him eat.

 

[Lostoften]

Water transferred to 20L and 29 gallon to see how they are holding water.

 

[Lostoften]

Purple didn’t eat recent feeding and is swimming around slowly very rigid. Foxface and Gem ate, and are eating Nori. Blue morph ate ROE but is not eating Nori.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Purple didn’t eat recent feeding and is swimming around slowly very rigid. Foxface and Gem ate, and are eating Nori. Blue morph ate ROE but is not eating Nori.

That rigid body swimming is not something I've seen before except in clownfish with brooklynella.

I think this is going to end up being something that just cannot be diagnosed through visual symptoms. What I do in those cases isn't practical for most, I take a skin scrape of the fish and look at it under a microscope. I can then immediately see if it is protozoan or flukes. If it is bacterial, I wouldn't see anything under a dissecting scope.

 

[Lostoften]

That rigid body swimming is not something I've seen before except in clownfish with brooklynella.

I think this is going to end up being something that just cannot be diagnosed through visual symptoms. What I do in those cases isn't practical for most, I take a skin scrape of the fish and look at it under a microscope. I can then immediately see if it is protozoan or flukes. If it is bacterial, I wouldn't see anything under a dissecting scope.

He is looking thin and still just swimming slow laps in tank. Honestly, don’t think he could survive me trying to capture and move to another tank.

The gem is acting the most normal, but almost as his eyes are so cloudy he can’t see.

All the other fish besides goby and one remaining clown appear less active, but are eating.

At this point, is it wait and see approach? Unfortunately, tomorrow is going to be a long workday and won’t be around tank much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

He is looking thin and still just swimming slow laps in tank. Honestly, don’t think he could survive me trying to capture and move to another tank.

The gem is acting the most normal, but almost as his eyes are so cloudy he can’t see.

All the other fish besides goby and one remaining clown appear less active, but are eating.

At this point, is it wait and see approach? Unfortunately, tomorrow is going to be a long workday and won’t be around tank much.

Sorry - I think "wait and see" will just allow whatever this is to keep getting worse. I just can't diagnose this without a microscope. That is similar to if you went to your doctor with a severe headache - they can't tell you what's happening without doing an MRI or something.

Pulling the fish to a treatment tank and dosing with coppersafe would be the alternative treatment in case this is a protozoan disease. Unlikely to be a viral disease and primary bacterial diseases involving all fish are almost unheard of.

Jay

 

[Lostoften]

Sadly woke up to more death this morning, purple, golden wrasse and clown

 

[Lostoften]

Sorry - I think "wait and see" will just allow whatever this is to keep getting worse. I just can't diagnose this without a microscope. That is similar to if you went to your doctor with a severe headache - they can't tell you what's happening without doing an MRI or something.

Pulling the fish to a treatment tank and dosing with coppersafe would be the alternative treatment in case this is a protozoan disease. Unlikely to be a viral disease and primary bacterial diseases involving all fish are almost unheard of.

Jay

For adding copper, best to go to full dose or start lower?

Fritz + Coopersafe okay for the 2 remaining wrasses?

Will move once home from work, hopefully there are fish still left.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sadly woke up to more death this morning, purple, golden wrasse and clown

Sorry to see. When massive loss like this occurs, it is usually too late to change/start a treatment, but at this point, a FW dip on the remaining fish and moving them to a treatment tank with copper is all I can suggest - that is a "Hail Mary" plan at best though....

 

[Jay Hemdal]

For adding copper, best to go to full dose or start lower?

Fritz + Coopersafe okay for the 2 remaining wrasses?

Will move once home from work, hopefully there are fish still left.

Go right into full copper......2.5 ppm

 

[Lostoften]

Gem and goby only ones to eat today. This is painful to watch happen.

29 and 20 tanks have copper added, will test levels and move over any survivors tonight.

 

[Lostoften]

Phosphate up to 0.44, guess strategy switches from saving fish to coral. Hard re-entry into the hobby. Most fish and money ever lost in the four tanks I have had.