LFS Advised me not to purchase Waterbox RedSea

[FlyPenFly]

Yeah, SCA Aquarium tanks are the only ones where I felt hmmm maybe this stand is super sketchy and might fail. The tank itself, while somewhat sloppily made in terms of silicone and parts quality looked ... rugged...

I think the best values right now are Innovative Marine EXT tanks with their metal stands and Herbie drains as well as the Fiji tanks with their quality silicone work and excellent overflows and smart sumps.

If I were buying a new tank today, it would be one of those two.

 

[TerraFerma]

And another thing about putting the ATO in the display area... You will definitely get a Good Workout each time you want to refill your ATO which when it's freaking tiny like that, will be OFTEN. I imagine you'll also be spilling ATO water around your tank and probably a bit into it too. It's a slightly dangerous and very user unfriendly design for something that needs to be refilled often.

Just get a proper good looking external ATO container from Trigger or IM of a good size, it'll last you the rest of your reefing career. Don't start with sacrificing priceless display space or sump space starting out. I guarantee you'll regret it as you start running out of room for corals and all sorts of reefing equipment.

Yea I never got that. Can fit a larger return in there...or have at most a 2 day supply of ATO water. You need an ATO to top off your ATO.

 

[sas226]

Why would you want a small amount of ATO water taking up huge amounts of space in the sump or display. That is the stupidest design I've ever heard of and ridiculous that these companies are making them like that and speaks to the inexperience of some reefers for choosing those systems.

You want max display space, you want max sump space. You want a huge external ATO container at least 10 gallons if you're running an open top.

The IM EXT series is decent and their metal stands are fantastic but their double backed walls will LEAK at the return bulkheads unless you silicone them up. Red Sea and Waterbox make good tanks but their sump design is stupid. Cade is somehow even more Overpriced than I thought possible and their ATO in the display tank is laughably stupid. You don't want to sacrifice DISPLAY space, that's whole point of that darn aquarium thing.

Fiji makes a pretty good tank and their overflow system is standard and well thought out. Their sumps are really smart and well made. They're also flexible in letting you upgrade sumps in their packages. Their stands are nothing special but at least they're strong if not disposable after 5+ years.

Pretty much all the big companies have their glass, stands, and tanks made in China. Maybe the new NYOS system will be different but who knows when that'll be released.

A lot of people want a clean look. I don't want other cabinets or things near my tank. It's stand alone on the wall. I have zero issue with the ATO being in the back or in the sump. To each their own. Calling people inexperienced because they don't have the same taste in tank setup is..to be frank, rude. The tone of your post is really off putting. Let people enjoy what they enjoy. I find it funny you support IM so much too when they are known for their AIO which is a sump AND an ATO in the back of the display heh. (No shade on IM, I have one and I love it.)

 

[Philly Reefer]

Why would you want a small amount of ATO water taking up huge amounts of space in the sump or display. That is the stupidest design I've ever heard of and ridiculous that these companies are making them like that and speaks to the inexperience of some reefers for choosing those systems.

You want max display space, you want max sump space. You want a huge external ATO container at least 10 gallons if you're running an open top.

The IM EXT series is decent and their metal stands are fantastic but their double backed walls will LEAK at the return bulkheads unless you silicone them up. Red Sea and Waterbox make good tanks but their sump design is stupid. Cade is somehow even more Overpriced than I thought possible and their ATO in the display tank is laughably stupid. You don't want to sacrifice DISPLAY space, that's whole point of that darn aquarium thing.

Fiji makes a pretty good tank and their overflow system is standard and well thought out. Their sumps are really smart and well made. They're also flexible in letting you upgrade sumps in their packages. Their stands are nothing special but at least they're strong if not disposable after 5+ years.

Pretty much all the big companies have their glass, stands, and tanks made in China. Maybe the new NYOS system will be different but who knows when that'll be released.

I think you should be doing some research before stating that the ATO container is a waste of space.
They are trying something different from what we have seen on the aquarium industry. Instead of giving a constructive feedback, you just throwing insult.
Of course Cade thought about that. Hence why its designed that way.

Let's compare between the Cade 1200 and Fiji 108g (almost the same dimension)

CADE REEF 1200 S2

The 1200 Series 2 is a 114 gallon display, with all the features you need to create your perfect ocean environment. From a small to mid-size fish system or a reef full of SPS corals, the 1200 can outperform any tank on the market. *Please note: Black and White stands are for pre-order only and...

www.algaebarn.com

Fiji Cube 108 Gallon External Overflow Rimless Tank

The external overflow tank is a popular tank choice in the reef keeping hobby in recent years because of its highly customizable options in its filtration setup and its opportunity in maximizing space for aquascaping. Fiji Cube launches a series of ultra-clear low iron glass aquariums with Fiji...

www.fijicube.com

With those comparison, no Cade did not waste their space. They designed it wider to have that ATO in the back.
Regular 120g tank : 48x24x24 (1219x609x609)


if you want to say INT overflow version is a wasted display space, now that I can agree.

I'm not going to argue that its small. I can agree on that. but 9.2 gallon is adequate size to use as an ATO container,.

Does Fiji comes with ATO container? I cant find it if it does. then the ATO would be taking space either next to the sump or next to the tank

 

[FlyPenFly]

They're definitely not the first, Reef Octopus did this a couple years ago. It was a bad design choice back then and it is now. You have to refill ATOs that small often for that size tank. You do not want to lift up 10 gallons of water frequently to the top of the tank.

Again, if you stay in this hobby a couple years you'll realize that you want max sump space and max display size for the stand footprint you have. You can put the ATO behind the tank (you'll want to leave plenty of room behind the tank when possible) or next to it, you definitely do not want to put the ATO in your display area or sump area.

Fiji does include an ATO of some sort you can put wherever. You are however not comparing like for like when you're comparing tanks of different gallons or sizes.

 

[FlyPenFly]

People tip toe too much in this hobby. Call dumb things dumb and hope companies don't do more dumb things. I wish when I started in this hobby, people gave frank advice.

 

[sas226]

People tip toe too much in this hobby. Call dumb things dumb and hope companies don't do more dumb things.

You're mistaking civility for tip toeing. A lot of people put their ATO in their sump area. There's literally nothing wrong with it. I'm afraid don't quite understand this subjective opinion presented as objective fact. It's kind of strange.

 

[Philly Reefer]

If you are lifting up 10g frequently, then considered it exercise.

But.. there is such thing called return pump + hose.

 

[FlyPenFly]

lol great now you need another pump to just refill your ATO and it's not even an automated ATO refill system. Why create these problems for yourself. lol.

But I guess if you're going to be dropping that kind of Cash on a Chinese tank from an Australian company that is represented by a US company that primarily sells disinfected algae... you probably don't make the best decisions.

 

[Philly Reefer]

Wow. What a good man you are

 

[sas226]

lol great now you need another pump to just refill your ATO and it's not even an automated ATO refill system. Why create these problems for yourself. lol.

But I guess if you're going to be dropping that kind of Cash on a Chinese tank from an Australian company that is represented by a US company that primarily sells disinfected algae... you probably don't make the best decisions.

This is an amazing post. It shows just how rude one can be when talking about something innocuous like preference in tank setup, who you buy it from ,and how/when you spend your money.

 

[Darren in Tacoma]

Seriously rude.

This is a hobby of compromise. Not everyone can afford the perfect setup, whatever that happens to be this week. Arguing about an ato is just stupid.

 

[SuncrestReef]

@revhtree Think it’s time to shut this thread down? It’s just devolved into arguments, insults, and bullying.

I randomly browse various threads to see what people have to say, but things like this just bring down the reputation of an otherwise very positive community.

 

[TerraFerma]

Who knew ATO size was such an acrimonious topic

 

[Toadpapa]

I just popped in to say we are loving our new cade no matter what country it was built in or what country designed it. Also @AlgaeBarn was great to order from.

 

[Funston07]

lol great now you need another pump to just refill your ATO and it's not even an automated ATO refill system. Why create these problems for yourself. lol.

But I guess if you're going to be dropping that kind of Cash on a Chinese tank from an Australian company that is represented by a US company that primarily sells disinfected algae... you probably don't make the best decisions.

Why did you hop on this thread just to bash someone's opinions. There's no need for it. You could of stated your opinion in a totally different way rather than just being rude.

 

[FlexingFishSticks]

I just popped in to say we are loving our new cade no matter what country it was built in or what country designed it. Also @AlgaeBarn was great to order from.

Nice! That’s all that matters as long as YOU’RE happy with your tank. Some content with Waterbox and some Redsea, Cade, IM, Fiji, etc....there’s no right or wrong. Happy Saturday everyone

 

[shred5]

I am curious about your experience with Red Sea. Was it a quality problem or a service problem?

It is mainly the stand. They are garbage and not made right.

The top is not flat. It should be one piece and the middle part starts to sink and/or warp. I believe this is the cause of allot of the Red Sea aquarium failures. A rimless tank needs to sit on a perfectly flat surface.

I mean look at the threads on the 750xxl failures and that was a major issue. All because of the stand.

Also my hinges rusted so fast. They should be made with something somewhat resistant to moisture.

I have had other small things that bother me too.

 

[sas226]

It is mainly the stand. They are garbage and not made right.

The top is not flat. It should be one piece and the middle part starts to sink and/or warp. I believe this is the cause of allot of the Red Sea aquarium failures. A rimless tank needs to sit on a perfectly flat surface.

I mean look at the threads on the 750xxl failures and that was a major issue. All because of the stand.

Also my hinges rusted so fast. They should be made with something somewhat resistant to moisture.

I have had other small things that bother me too.

Just a note, they did admit fault on the larger aquariums after.. a very long time and now offer a kit that solves the problem and it comes default on new tanks. Doesn't make what they did right, and I still wouldn't trust them but to each their own.

 

[metzer]

It is mainly the stand. They are garbage and not made right.

The top is not flat. It should be one piece and the middle part starts to sink and/or warp. I believe this is the cause of allot of the Red Sea aquarium failures. A rimless tank needs to sit on a perfectly flat surface.

I mean look at the threads on the 750xxl failures and that was a major issue. All because of the stand.

Also my hinges rusted so fast. They should be made with something somewhat resistant to moisture.

I have had other small things that bother me too.

When did your hinges start to rust? I have had a 750 for over a year and have not seen any problems? I am curious on the time duration (e.g. if they started to rust in a month then maybe there was quality problem or are you stating that over say five years they started to rust).