LFS Advised me not to purchase Waterbox RedSea

[BullyBee]

I had a custom tank made for me and it was a disaster. Came out like garbage. I was gonna have it remade and spoke to another tank builder who was so professional and backed up his work....

then I found the same tank I wanted only 8 gallons bigger for $165 less...For $165 I will drill my own holes and wrap the back glass in black vinyl.

As for the stand....metal with a skirt built around it all the way!

 

[Arabyps]

Not defending any retailer nor knocking your statement.
I am curious as to why you feel this way. What agenda are you getting at?

No agenda. Obviously, if they agree as part of a dealer contract to represent the product line, not just to use it to get people in the door to bait and switch, they are violating the contract. Waterbox and Red Sea spend a great deal of money marketing and promoting their products. It gets people in the door at the LFS. If they don't believe in the product, don't represent it. Pure and simple.

 

[RayT]

Check out Cade aquariums or maybe even Innovative Marine. Cade is from Australia and is just now getting in the US but they are huge in Australia, AlgaeBarn is now selling them. Their design and cabinet is everything you could ask for but they dont make an AIO. Their smallest one is a 57gal display with 13gal sump. Its basically open the box and ready to go system, dont have to glue plumbing or nothing. But if your set on an AIO check out Innovative Marine they are decent tanks but not sure if they offer an AIO.

Cade is made in Nanging,China

 

[sas226]

At this point if we didn't buy any of the aquariums that "someone told me not to buy" in this thread, we'd be melting and making the glass ourselves either that or building them out of plywood. You have to remember the people are much more likely to speak out about the negatives of something than the positives. If the problematic tanks or stands made up even 10% of the purchased items the companies would be out of business. This hobby isn't one that has MASSIVE base of unknown buyers. It's a pretty tight knit community relative to say gaming or sports. You'd hear a ton more horror stories. I've seen people trash companies that have known stellar customer service. It happens. I've owned Aqueon tanks, IM, and soon to be waterbox.. they all work. Sometimes you just get cruddy luck. As for "Made in china" everything is made in china. If you're not paying 4x the price of everyone else there's a good chance it was made in China. ALso, the cade aquariums are super nice, unfortunately just a little bit out of my price range, but IMO well worth the money. Reefbuilders did an excellent review of their system. They really thought of everything.

 

[Philly Reefer]

That build in ATO container is one of the perk for cade.

 

[Funston07]

Cade is made in Nanging,China

They might be made in China because thats where their factory is but they are from Australia. They are designed and engineered in Australia. Alot of stuff is made in China, including Red Sea and if Im not mistaken so is Waterbox.

 

[K7BMG]

No agenda. Obviously, if they agree as part of a dealer contract to represent the product line, not just to use it to get people in the door to bait and switch, they are violating the contract. Waterbox and Red Sea spend a great deal of money marketing and promoting their products. It gets people in the door at the LFS. If they don't believe in the product, don't represent it. Pure and simple.

I don't know that it is so much of a bait and switch, though I do get it.

In retail you have to cater to your customers. After all, they bring in the dollars that keep the doors open.
Local customers here complained profoundly about them not stocking Red Sea tanks and products. They wanted Red Sea, Salt mix, pumps, lights, and test kits. Red sea, not unlike other manufactures, will not allow a dealer to buy only specific things, you have to support and stock the entire line or nothing at all, along with meeting minimum sales goals to maintain the line.

My LFS prefers Waterbox tanks and stands for factory production built units, thus is why they also carry them as well. Of course they have some custom tank manufactures they use. Yes they prefer these tanks and stands over Red Sea's offerings, and yes they give there reasonings as to why they have that preference. In the end my LFS want's you to have what you want. But as we all do, we ask questions, such as, well what would you recommend I buy? They could lie and and tell you what you and the brand wants you to hear, or they can give out an honest opinion.

I know first hand that the profit margin's between the two in his case are roughly the same. I am sure it would be greater if he could sell a greater volume with either, but in our area and market this is not going to happen.

I guess the point I am poorly attempting to make here on my tiny scale is, we have a small market here in Reno. So tank sales are low in the first place, and they will never have a profit gain large enough on either product to financially sway their reasoning for one over the other.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I made my own tank, in my own garage. Downside is that I can't email to complain about something I did wrong...

 

[FlexingFishSticks]

Great points from all! Appreciate all the feedback! Since I posted this thread I don’t shop at that LFS anymore. He quoted me a price that was 1k over the initial Waterbox/RedSea tanks I was looking at after saying, “we can have you a custom tank made much cheaper than what Waterbox/RedSea charge” lol. After declining his offer i went shopping there the following week. He did not greet me or look at me and avoided eye contact as he walked past me several times so I felt it was unprofessional/childish and that is why I decided to take business elsewhere.

 

[sas226]

That build in ATO container is one of the perk for cade.

WB has them too, considering ATOs are like 100+ bucks on the cheap end for actual ones.. it's a darn nice perk.

 

[sas226]

I made my own tank, in my own garage. Downside is that I can't email to complain about something I did wrong...

On the complaint box can be found at the end of the driveway, the customer service drop box is wherever you keep the trash bins hah

 

[FangsAndGames]

I had a 90 gal Red Sea burst from the seams at 3am. Took us until 8am to stop the leakage. Everything died in the transfer from the tank out and back. We were so p*****. We had to silicon the tank back to get it to stop. More info on my build thread which I’m about to give some much needed tlc to.

 

[Philly Reefer]

WB has them too, considering ATOs are like 100+ bucks on the cheap end for actual ones.. it's a darn nice perk.

WB ato container is in the sump. I would say it's actually in the way. Cade is hidden in the back of the DT. You won't even know it's there

 

[FlexingFishSticks]

I had a 90 gal Red Sea burst from the seams at 3am. Took us until 8am to stop the leakage. Everything died in the transfer from the tank out and back. We were so p*****. We had to silicon the tank back to get it to stop. More info on my build thread which I’m about to give some much needed tlc to.

Omg! That is my worst fear and I’m sure everyone else’s as well! So sorry you had to go through that....will def check out your build!

 

[sas226]

WB ato container is in the sump. I would say it's actually in the way. Cade is hidden in the back of the DT. You won't even know it's there

Ah yeah I remember that. Good point

 

[dohc97]

Everything has pros and cons, I did not realize that glasscages will do custom stands, if I had known that I probably would have bought through them. I ended up going Planet because they are local to me, we just played around with standard sizes and got a tank in the size I wanted with a frame, black silicone and clear glass for about the same as everyone else. Stand is plywood but built very well and in the style I wanted. I have also owned an IM tank which I built the stand for and was satisfied with the quality.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Why would you want a small amount of ATO water taking up huge amounts of space in the sump or display. That is the stupidest design I've ever heard of and ridiculous that these companies are making them like that and speaks to the inexperience of some reefers for choosing those systems.

You want max display space, you want max sump space. You want a huge external ATO container at least 10 gallons if you're running an open top.

The IM EXT series is decent and their metal stands are fantastic but their double backed walls will LEAK at the return bulkheads unless you silicone them up. Red Sea and Waterbox make good tanks but their sump design is stupid. Cade is somehow even more Overpriced than I thought possible and their ATO in the display tank is laughably stupid. You don't want to sacrifice DISPLAY space, that's whole point of that darn aquarium thing.

Fiji makes a pretty good tank and their overflow system is standard and well thought out. Their sumps are really smart and well made. They're also flexible in letting you upgrade sumps in their packages. Their stands are nothing special but at least they're strong if not disposable after 5+ years.

Pretty much all the big companies have their glass, stands, and tanks made in China. Maybe the new NYOS system will be different but who knows when that'll be released.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Why would you want a small amount of ATO water taking up huge amounts of space in the sump or display. That is the stupidest design I've ever heard of and ridiculous that these companies are making them like that and speaks to the inexperience of some reefers for choosing those systems.

You want max display space, you want max sump space. You want a huge external ATO container at least 10 gallons if you're running an open top.

The IM EXT series is decent and their metal stands are fantastic but their double backed walls will LEAK at the return bulkheads unless you silicone them up. Red Sea and Waterbox make good tanks but their sump design is stupid. Cade is somehow even more Overpriced than I thought possible and their ATO in the display tank is laughably stupid. You don't want to sacrifice DISPLAY space, that's whole point of that darn aquarium thing.

Fiji makes a pretty good tank and their overflow system is standard and well thought out. Their sumps are really smart and well made. They're also flexible in letting you upgrade sumps in their packages. Their stands are nothing special but at least they're strong if not disposable after 5+ years.

Pretty much all the big companies have their glass, stands, and tanks made in China. Maybe the new NYOS system will be different but who knows when that'll be released.

While I do agree you do not want to sacrifice display space with an ATO, these are not existing aquariums with ATOs added removing display area. If the ATO is not in the back of the tank, or in the sump and you run external you will still have the same amount of display area. If a person wants a tank with X amount of gallons I would not recommend getting a tank that doesn't fit their description or ideas. For example if a person wants a 100 gallon display but 5 gallons of that is taken up to make 95gallons because of an ATO I would recommend finding a tank with their desired display size. ~Shaun K.

 

[FlyPenFly]

And another thing about putting the ATO in the display area... You will definitely get a Good Workout each time you want to refill your ATO which when it's freaking tiny like that, will be OFTEN. I imagine you'll also be spilling ATO water around your tank and probably a bit into it too. It's a slightly dangerous and very user unfriendly design for something that needs to be refilled often.

Just get a proper good looking external ATO container from Trigger or IM of a good size, it'll last you the rest of your reefing career. Don't start with sacrificing priceless display space or sump space starting out. I guarantee you'll regret it as you start running out of room for corals and all sorts of reefing equipment.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Can I finally admit that like your LFS, i think red sea and waterbox are overpriced garbage? I have a redsea 170 that I bought for the ms. The plumbing is a joke and the stand is poor quality at best. They are selling these things at a PREMIUM price, you think they could spend a little extra on things.

They are Chinese factory built tanks with one of the most robust marketing campaign in the industry. They were the first massed produced rimless tanks and everyone went bonkers for them. I mean, good on them, their sales are likely impressive. But i have heard from all the LFS in my area that they are a complete nightmare to deal with.

Are they going to fail? no. Are they among the nicest tanks out there? No. Do you NEED one of the nicest tanks? Maybe, but most newbies burn out rather fast.