Just a thought on giving advice...

[All_talk]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I do not mean to single you our or to criticize the comment, so please do not take this personally at all, but that, IMO, is a PERFECT example of what I said above.

It is NOT always best to pick a salt mix that matches the tank.

There are at least three scenarios where it is not, even if there are many scenarios where it is.

1. If you are using water changes to maintain calcium and alkalinity, it will never work if you pick a salt mix that has the exact parameters you want in the tank. It will typically be a slow steady decline of alk and calcium. You need to salt mix to be at least a little, and maybe a lot higher than your tank, depending on the tank demand and how much you change.

2. If you are doing automatic water changes, which are often very slow and steady, the new salt water need not be close at all to the aquarium values. If you change 1% daily, and the tank is 7 dK and the salt mix is 11 dKH, the boost to alk on a daily basis is 0.04 dKH per day. That just means that your required dosing is a little lower than if you did water changes with a mix at 7 dKH (unless you have an unusual tank that has demand less than 0.04 dKH per day). I used this method.

3. There are times when one wants the water change to remove calcium or alk. These include dosing kalkwasser, where you may want the salt mix to have lower calcium than the tank (I used this method). Some few tanks also have alkalinity slowly but steadily rising (for not always clear reasons, but some are known). In such a case, water changes may need to be done with a salt mix that has lower alk than the tank. Some folks may even need to make new salt water with an alk lower than any commercial mix, by lowering it intentionally when mixing it.

I didn't take it personally, in my situation my tank is new, and I daily dose and do 25% water changes every 2 weeks. It makes sense for me to use a mix that matches my parameters instead of trying to get my new mix to match the tank. As for reducing alk cal mag I would use tropic Marin part c to add in my weaker salt mix to take care of that. I respect you very much and maybe I misunderstood your post. I was just sharing how it helped me

 

[Perthegallon]

IM SO TIRED OF ASKING FOR HELP the only response it “what’s your parameters” I give them and then boom no response. No one has a single word other then what’s your parameters

 

[brandon429]

for example

the chemistry forum and I are never going to agree on what .1 nh4 as stated by a non digital test kit means to reefing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I didn't take it personally, in my situation my tank is new, and I daily dose and do 25% water changes every 2 weeks. It makes sense for me to use a mix that matches my parameters instead of trying to get my new mix to match the tank. As for reducing alk cal mag I would use tropic Marin part c to add in my weaker salt mix to take care of that. I respect you very much and maybe I misunderstood your post. I was just sharing how it helped me

I was not suggesting you should do anything different, I was just noting an example of a situation where the advice (matching the salt mix and tank parameters) fits my thought #2 above:

2. The flip side is that, in a variety of cases, one has to be very careful in giving and accepting advice based on the look of a tank. That tank and its husbandry practices may have important differences from your own that may or may not be evident from the picture, and neither you nor the tank owner may understand which differences are critical to making some particular method work, and which ones are trivial differences.

 

[C4ctus99]

I agree, but people, please have a plan from day one.
Having no plan and getting on the R2R forum to ask question you should already know is a recipe for failure, imo.
This happens all the time.
Im an old retired reefer with plenty of time to help.
Problem is most dont take the time to learn proper reefing practices and just come here for a quick answer.
Their is no quick anything in reef keeping.

The problem I have encountered with this, being less than 1 year in to reefing, is that getting into all this I had no clue about anything. How was I supposed to know whether I like kessil better or ai or would settle with just some T5s? I had to learn how to feed fish and which foods work best. Equipment is a HUGE deal and a heck of a lot of work to go through and figure out what you want in your setup.

Some people can plan ahead and figure out what they want beforehand, but I would never have been able to know what kind of pumps to look at for a sump or how to go about filtration and what brand of activated carbon works best.

I think sometimes older reefers forget what it was like starting out and trying to figure it all out and what equipment/setup to use, but I could be wrong. I came home with a hermit crab from the intracoastal and that started all this off. I didn’t even find R2R until I had owned a goby and moved my tank and was struggling with a second goby dying. I’ve had trouble finding good information on the internet and while I do have to sort through it here, at least I have people with plenty of experience to argue with

 

[Dburr1014]

Just in the past 2 hours one guy says here "don't need a CUC for gha, it's a waste of money".
His tank is gorgeous but how many tanks can run long term with zero snails and hermits?
Not bad advice but not the normal advice one would give. If it works for him it may not work for another. It's a lot of work to scub rocks if you have gha.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

.

 

[V A R I A N T]

This thread reads like that day you signed up for the corporate softball league and then were told to sit on the bench because you didn't have the correct badge, picture, or artificial standing in the community.

 

[Crustaceon]

IM SO TIRED OF ASKING FOR HELP the only response it “what’s your parameters” I give them and then boom no response. No one has a single word other then what’s your parameters

You can always PM me. Threads get buried so fast on this forum, no one replied to my latest build thread. It's on page one for roughly three seconds and PoOf, gone and replaced with "why isn't my tank cycled yet" threads.

 

[Crustaceon]

Just in the past 2 hours one guy says here "don't need a CUC for gha, it's a waste of money".
His tank is gorgeous but how many tanks can run long term with zero snails and hermits?
Not bad advice but not the normal advice one would give. If it works for him it may not work for another. It's a lot of work to scub rocks if you have gha.

It is a lot of work, but the alternative is waiting 3-4 months for the appropriate amount of snails to naturally do the same thing a toothbrush would do. I'm in the camp of "just do what needs to get done" simply because much of the fun of this hobby is looking at a nice tank and not getting discouraged. TBH, no one wants to look at an algae infested tank for an extended amount of time while waiting for snails to do their thing, when the same thing can be accomplished in a few weeks with a little bit of extra effort. There are times when patience and letting nature take its course is the best methodology. I don't think that needs to be the case when reducing the amount of visible nuisance algae in a display.

 

[EliMelly]

I actually have an idea for something we can do here where a posters tank info and photos, equipment, experience would available in one click (Been thinking about this for a while) Provided that they choose to participate. We could give a special recognition badge or name color to those that do. Then when someone offers advice anyone could do a quick click and see if the person has had success of their own.

Great idea, you can narrow it down to specific types of success. Predator fish, sps, fish only, chemistry, tangs, etc.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was going to private message you but hay we can't do that I guess, you make it hard for someone to save a little face. Maybe next time leave it at the first reply and let me have a little dignity

Sorry. Again, I don't think my comments should be taken as relating to you at all. The intended focus is on that widely given and taken advice that does have limitations that are often not mentioned.

 

[Crustaceon]

So.... How would you know if someone was having success long term and didn't just clean up their tank one day, throw in a bunch of SPS colonies like they do at coral shows and take a pic for "credibility"?

 

[fish farmer]

The problem I have encountered with this, being less than 1 year in to reefing, is that getting into all this I had no clue about anything. How was I supposed to know whether I like kessil better or ai or would settle with just some T5s? I had to learn how to feed fish and which foods work best. Equipment is a HUGE deal and a heck of a lot of work to go through and figure out what you want in your setup.

Some people can plan ahead and figure out what they want beforehand, but I would never have been able to know what kind of pumps to look at for a sump or how to go about filtration and what brand of activated carbon works best.

I think sometimes older reefers forget what it was like starting out and trying to figure it all out and what equipment/setup to use, but I could be wrong. I came home with a hermit crab from the intracoastal and that started all this off. I didn’t even find R2R until I had owned a goby and moved my tank and was struggling with a second goby dying. I’ve had trouble finding good information on the internet and while I do have to sort through it here, at least I have people with plenty of experience to argue with

I hear you on that....I found forums after I had already decided on a few things and that was 20 years ago. There are so many ways to do things, so many equipment options currently, it can be hard to sift through it all.

My current system I rebuild around 2010 with power compact lighting with the sole intention of letting mushrooms and other softies take off...which they did. I never expected to be having the led options I do now.

 

[V A R I A N T]

So.... How would you know if someone was having success long term and didn't just clean up their tank one day, throw in a bunch of SPS colonies like they do at coral shows and take a pic for "credibility"?

Personally, I use the search function and look at the responses or threads started by the poster, or OP. Their thread and response history is their resume and does a great job of demonstrating their credibility.

 

[Eric R.]

Beware of brown belts! (says the brown belt... haha)

I do think that's why having a build thread link is helpful. I usually check those, or look at a poster's history in terms of threads they've started to get an idea of what their experience is when I'm looking for advice. And I try to learn a bit about the credentials and background of the more well known posters here that have experience in certain professional settings as well. Someone might know a lot about one subject, but a little about another. Or they might be an expert on lighting, or electrical, or plumbing, or building, or animal ID, or chemistry, or medicine, and not have a great looking reef tank. Or they might have a great looking tank, and not actually know a lot about one of those particular areas. YMMV.

 

[90's reefer]

The problem I have encountered with this, being less than 1 year in to reefing, is that getting into all this I had no clue about anything. How was I supposed to know whether I like kessil better or ai or would settle with just some T5s? I had to learn how to feed fish and which foods work best. Equipment is a HUGE deal and a heck of a lot of work to go through and figure out what you want in your setup.

Some people can plan ahead and figure out what they want beforehand, but I would never have been able to know what kind of pumps to look at for a sump or how to go about filtration and what brand of activated carbon works best.

I think sometimes older reefers forget what it was like starting out and trying to figure it all out and what equipment/setup to use, but I could be wrong. I came home with a hermit crab from the intracoastal and that started all this off. I didn’t even find R2R until I had owned a goby and moved my tank and was struggling with a second goby dying. I’ve had trouble finding good information on the internet and while I do have to sort through it here, at least I have people with plenty of experience to argue with

Yep just bring some stuff home and go from their. No plan makes it way harder.
I hear this at every lfs I have ever been in. Local owners who are friends will tell you those are the best customers.
Remember the lfs is their to make money.
People forget, walk in and walk out, not knowing a thing with the tank they just bought.
Their tank is now sitting at the lfs that they gave it back to because no one would buy it. I see this month by month.

So their are plenty of books, not the internet where everyone is an expert, that you could have bought and read if your interested in the hobby. They can be as in depth as you want.

Us old reefers know how hard it was in the 80's with very few books on the subject. Marine biology books are what I sourced so I would understand the process.
You can still do it but most dont.

Best advice I can give is after all your research seek out a mentor and you will be much happier with your system long term.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Us old reefers know how hard it was in the 80's with very few books on the subject.

There were also many fewer choices of everything. lol

 

[C4ctus99]

Yep just bring some stuff home and go from their. No plan makes it way harder.
I hear this at every lfs I have ever been in. Local owners who are friends will tell you those are the best customers.
Remember the lfs is their to make money.
People forget, walk in and walk out, not knowing a thing with the tank they just bought.
Their tank is now sitting at the lfs that they gave it back to because no one would buy it. I see this month by month.

So their are plenty of books, not the internet where everyone is an expert, that you could have bought and read if your interested in the hobby. They can be as in depth as you want.

Us old reefers know how hard it was in the 80's with very few books on the subject. Marine biology books are what I sourced so I would understand the process.
You can still do it but most dont.

Best advice I can give is after all your research seek out a mentor and you will be much happier with your system long term.

I’m not saying that is not the case, just that at some point everyone was just starting out and quite frankly hopping on BRS and trying to figure out which return pump is best is overwhelming, much less getting into lights, filter media, etc.

I had no clue what I wanted for my tank’s setup until a couple months ago, then I had to go look up a sump. Lord knows I can’t figure out what my ideal fish stock list is, but I’ve been narrowing it down since starting.

I guess my point was just that there are legitimately 1 million ways to skin this cat and for me it took being in the hobby for several months to figure out how I wanted to do it

 

[rmorris_14]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

I just find my people and then go to them for advice. I rarely post threads anymore asking for advice.