Just a thought on giving advice...

[All_talk]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

 

[srobertb]

Try to keep it simple:

Forums work by aggregating anecdotal data as well as shared scientific data to help form an opinion, action plan, or methodology. Getting 15 answers, asking questions, and extrapolating the right answer (not the most convenient) is how this all works best.

Scrolling thru and finding the tank “you like” and basing your decision on that would be as foolish as scrolling through and finding the answer you like best (although this is par for the course these days). Especially with the many “this is my friends tank” when pressed. Don’t forget the classic “this was my beautiful display until it crashed and everything died after 3 months.”

I don’t think I’m weighing opinions solely on someone’s ability to use filters or photoshop.

There are too many exceptions to the rule to go solely with one person’s opinion or practices. Too many beautiful tanks with husbandry skills that rail against common modern practices and ideologies. …and this is GREAT. But it should be tempered by 10-20 other thoughts and experiences. Not the sole one you choose because they can use photoshop or are lucky.

“Excuse me but before I allow you to help me program my Apex, I need a tank picture.” Hmmmm….

 

[srobertb]

@All_talk I‘ve been at this for a couple of years now, and here is what I learned. There are lots of opinions, and they can be diverse. But if I focus on the facts of what’s being shared then I can make my own decision which is essentially forming my own opinion.

Great example is “best salt”. There isn’t a universal best salt but I like the suggestions as to how to decide which salt is right for me.

This is it. Aggregation of information and applying it to your use case.” I don’t want to dose and I’ll be using pre-made saltwater within 24 hours of mixing.” Reef Crystals might be a good option. “ I have 10 dosing pumps and I want my SW to be able to sit in a holding tank for 3 months”. Maybe something with less additives that is pharmaceutical grade is a better option.

Lots of opinions and questions and debate and finding the one that works for you is what forums are all about.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Unfortunately it’s not possible to 100% validate if the advice given is sound advice.

Personally, I wouldn’t listen to someone who has no proof of practical application of their skill and experience.
A build thread with a good looking tank or a long and documented history of success in the reefing hobby would be the lowest acceptable bar for me.

Personally I’m fairly active on both IG and YouTube so I should be fairly easily vetted and you can decide if I’m a moron or not haha

 

[90's reefer]

After posting and reading all the threads I can see how people get confused.

Many do not take the time to understand how to run a basic saltwater system.
Asking for advice when you dont have the basics mastered will just confuse you more.

Many just make it way harder than it has to be.

 

[Seansea]

I just watch "eddies reef aquaria" on youtube. All the info u need

 

[revhtree]

I actually have an idea for something we can do here where a posters tank info and photos, equipment, experience would available in one click (Been thinking about this for a while) Provided that they choose to participate. We could give a special recognition badge or name color to those that do. Then when someone offers advice anyone could do a quick click and see if the person has had success of their own.

 

[workhz]

That would make it obvious half their answers aren't their own and actually someone else's work so I can't see it happening. Hopefully other people aren't doing the same as him.

Maybe we can petition to change their name to ChatR2R

 

[bert236]

Sure, that would be ideal, but we can ask for the reference if we are interested, right? I know, then we have to wait for a reply and by then we might not care anymore or be too busy to follow up.

I just don't like it because they take credit for someone else's work and possibly don't understand the advice they are copying and pasting. I generally think the are knowledge so that's why I'm not saying a name but it always gives me pause when they give advice.

 

[Seansea]

Rhev That is actually a good idea

 

[naterealbig]

That already exists with the Reef Squad badge.

Ah. I was aware of the badge, but it was never clear to me that this is what "Reef Squad" signified.

Whether it is true or not, my perception is that the ReefSquad team is small, those looking for advice from "trusted" partners are not aware this team is who to # when reliable advice is needed, and there is not a clear pathway for membership. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Any idea what the criteria are for Reef Squad status? Is there a way to apply?

I would consider myself an advanced reefer (distinguished from "expert" due to my inability to describe many biome/system processes through detailed biological or chemical description (@Bpb , @Randy Holmes-Farley , etc come to mind here)), but I almost nearly never respond to threads requesting help - as my experience, knowledge, and current tank status are not easily distinguishable against the myriad of relatively novice reefers eager to share their thoughts.

 

[naterealbig]

I actually have an idea for something we can do here where a posters tank info and photos, equipment, experience would available in one click (Been thinking about this for a while) Provided that they choose to participate. We could give a special recognition badge or name color to those that do. Then when someone offers advice anyone could do a quick click and see if the person has had success of their own.

This is a great idea.

Adding to it:

* LinkedIn allows users to list skill sets, and also allows others to "endorse" those skill-sets. Something like this may also be very helpful within the scope you are describing.

* I think that it is also very important that this recognition (and what it means, how new members utilize it - especially for newer reefers) is described in stickies in a few places, such as new member and general reef forums/subforums.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Ah. I was aware of the badge, but it was never clear to me that this is what "Reef Squad" signified.

Whether it is true or not, my perception is that the ReefSquad team is small, those looking for advice from "trusted" partners are not aware this team is who to # when reliable advice is needed, and there is not a clear pathway for membership. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Any idea what the criteria are for Reef Squad status? Is there a way to apply?

I would consider myself an advanced reefer (distinguished from "expert" due to my inability to describe many biome/system processes through detailed biological or chemical description (@Bpb , @Randy Holmes-Farley , etc come to mind here)), but I almost nearly never respond to threads requesting help - as my experience, knowledge, and current tank status are not easily distinguishable against the myriad of relatively novice reefers eager to share their thoughts.

I was told the Reef Squad chooses you, and doesn't take applications, per se. @Peace River is the leader.

 

[Dburr1014]

I actually have an idea for something we can do here where a posters tank info and photos, equipment, experience would available in one click (Been thinking about this for a while) Provided that they choose to participate. We could give a special recognition badge or name color to those that do. Then when someone offers advice anyone could do a quick click and see if the person has had success of their own.

This is a great idea. I have been wanting to do a build thread but have not. The reason is in anticipating a upgrade and thought that would be a good time to do it.
But, in hindsight, maybe a build thread now but start with pics from when it first was set up.

But this idea anyone can do from the get go.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

I would give three comments to add to or emphasize what some others have said.

1. Someone giving advice need never have tried the method in question to give perfect advice about it. Showing a tank is of no value in such a situation.

2. The flip side is that, in a variety of cases, one has to be very careful in giving and accepting advice based on the look of a tank. That tank and its husbandry practices may have important differences from your own that may or may not be evident from the picture, and neither you nor the tank owner may understand which differences are critical to making some particular method work, and which ones are trivial differences.

3. Finally, the tank in question may be successful in spite of a poor husbandry practice, and alternatively, may be less than successful for reasons unrelated to the method being discussed.

IMO, the consequence of these ideas is that "it works for me" is a limited sort of recommendation, whether you see their tank or not.

 

[90's reefer]

I would give three comments to add to or emphasize what some others have said.

1. Someone giving advice need never have tried the method in question to give perfect advice about it. Showing a tank is of no value in such a situation.

2. The flip side is that, in a variety of cases, one has to be very careful in giving and accepting advice based on the look of a tank. That tank and its husbandry practices may have important differences from your own that may or may not be evident from the picture, and neither you nor the tank owner may understand which differences are critical to making some particular method work, and which ones are trivial differences.

3. Finally, the tank in question may be successful in spite of a poor husbandry practice, and alternatively, may be less than successful for reasons unrelated to the method being discussed.

IMO, the consequence of these ideas is that "it works for me" is a limited sort of recommendation, whether you see their tank or not.

I agree, but people, please have a plan from day one.
Having no plan and getting on the R2R forum to ask question you should already know is a recipe for failure, imo.
This happens all the time.
Im an old retired reefer with plenty of time to help.
Problem is most dont take the time to learn proper reefing practices and just come here for a quick answer.
Their is no quick anything in reef keeping.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

@All_talk I‘ve been at this for a couple of years now, and here is what I learned. There are lots of opinions, and they can be diverse. But if I focus on the facts of what’s being shared then I can make my own decision which is essentially forming my own opinion.

Great example is “best salt”. There isn’t a universal best salt but I like the suggestions as to how to decide which salt is right for me.

As to salt. Being newer to reefing, I didn't know the best approach to salt was get the bucket that best matches your desired tank parameters, not so much brand. When I read some advice here on r2r showing the parameters of all of the most used salts were it changed my game. We don't know what we don't know until it is pointed out and explained.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As to salt. Being newer to reefing, I didn't know the best approach to salt was get the bucket that best matches your desired tank parameters, not so much brand. When I read some advice here on r2r showing the parameters of all of the most used salts were it changed my game. We don't know what we don't know until it is pointed out and explained.

I do not mean to single you our or to criticize the comment, so please do not take this personally at all, but that, IMO, is a PERFECT example of what I said above.

It is NOT always best to pick a salt mix that matches the tank.

There are at least three scenarios where it is not, even if there are many scenarios where it is.

1. If you are using water changes to maintain calcium and alkalinity, it will never work if you pick a salt mix that has the exact parameters you want in the tank. It will typically be a slow steady decline of alk and calcium. You need to salt mix to be at least a little, and maybe a lot higher than your tank, depending on the tank demand and how much you change.

2. If you are doing automatic water changes, which are often very slow and steady, the new salt water need not be close at all to the aquarium values. If you change 1% daily, and the tank is 7 dK and the salt mix is 11 dKH, the boost to alk on a daily basis is 0.04 dKH per day. That just means that your required dosing is a little lower than if you did water changes with a mix at 7 dKH (unless you have an unusual tank that has demand less than 0.04 dKH per day). I used this method.

3. There are times when one wants the water change to remove calcium or alk. These include dosing kalkwasser, where you may want the salt mix to have lower calcium than the tank (I used this method). Some few tanks also have alkalinity slowly but steadily rising (for not always clear reasons, but some are known). In such a case, water changes may need to be done with a salt mix that has lower alk than the tank. Some folks may even need to make new salt water with an alk lower than any commercial mix, by lowering it intentionally when mixing it.

 

[StatelineReefer]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

And you did.

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine.

Exactly how a reef forum should work.

But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both),

'Good from the bad' Is there 'bad' advice being given regularly? Is it intentional or the result of poor guidance? These things tend to self-correct here as a majority of us are more interested in seeing people succeed as opposed to patting ourselves on the back for internet brownie points...

Looking at you, Reddit.

I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

Technically there's only one way, your way, and it is generally the culmination of all the things you have been successful with, tempered by all the things you have struggled with and overcome.

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

This is such a horrible idea on many levels.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately.

Just as bad of an idea.

I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?

These days, about as big as a red sea 175g bucket.

Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

So. If I understand you correctly, you're saying the only people who should give advice on R2R should be people with display tanks and show reefs, and that the average reefer who may know a solution but doesn't have a FTS doesn't have anything worth contributing?

Your entire premise awakens a standoffishness within my core.

 

[C4ctus99]

I surely don't want to be "schooled" by someone with a 20g tank, lit by flourescent tubes, with plastic plants, that's 3 weeks old and has only a pair of domino damsels in it.

Guilty as charged

In all seriousness, I am a lot newer to the hobby and try and defer to experts, but also pass along information that I’ve learned and oftentimes tag people I know have better answers than I

 

[brandon429]

if you see a thread where 300 reefs are all aligned around a given claim and they're all happy/bright/vibrant reefs, start to accept the claim is true.

(e.g: fluconazole kills reef tank green algae)

that's one heck of a way to vet information, demand to see a work thread in other's tanks before locking in information accuracy. the other is obviously someone with a multi decade years old system can relay working options to age out a reef/personal testimony and proof cases for stating best practices. I find that nuance and unstated skills/reactions and artistic ways influence the perspective of using one's own reef tank for a claims proof example

once you flip it, and align any reader with the same results as the best practices holder, you venture into hard repeatable science even though it comes in an anecdotal cloak. you had to field through hundreds of posts to find a pattern all reef tanks share. that one link you can control across tanks: is the science