I've been in this hobby for a year now and I just cant seem to make it work. I can you the communities advice, as I'm clearly doing something wrong.

[Kasrift]

I stick by my original statement of it seems like everything added is ok. Of course keeping it simple is always better, but I don't see anything wrong with what is added with the exception of directly adding N03 and P04. The OP is correct with the adding of AFR and that is such a minimal amount that I don't see that as an issue. Microbacter clean and 7 also don't break anything on a weekly cadence and you can watch the BTS tv episodes on it for going through the ugly phase on new tanks, so seriously shouldn't be an issue. Chaeto grow is questionable, but I understand that since you are doing a refugium that you think it is necessary, but I'd avoid it until the Chaeto starts to suffer. AFR has iron, and that is something that if it is too high in your tank can be harmful.

 

[Hermie]

and why people who say that WCs are superior to dosing literally have no idea what theyre even arguing about.

Definitely not true.

 

[EugeneVan]

Marketing often presents itself as science and is responsible for a lot of misinformation in this hobby. Not all information presented by people or companies that have something to sell is everything it is made out to be. Be wary.

Karma sucks, particularly in reefing.

In reef keeper, luck only work when you done everything right in the first place. Listen to the people or take their advice only if they can show you the pictures of their tank. Talking you into things are easy.......

 

[Hermie]

And if you had everything figured out already you wouldn't be here. Simple as.

 

[PeterEde]

I'm really struggling to keep corals alive, and though I've followed all the steps to success, everything seems to just slowly die. I'll post as much relevant information as I can starting with my reef journal:

The tank is 3 months old Nuvo 30L (30g) and started completely sterile with the exception of Ocean Direct sand and Aqua Forest reef mud. Salinity has been kept consistent at 34.5ppt using 2 different test methods and a Tunze ATO. Temperature is a constant 77.1F. PH is 7.9. The sump consists of filter floss pads, a chaeto fuge on 8 hours at night, Rox 0.8 carbon, and Purigen. Lighting is provided by 2 AI Primes running 11 hours a day (with 4 hours total ramp) at 8" off the water tuned to UV80/V80/RB72/B100/R10/G10/W10 which should be giving around 100 par based on other people's testing.

Dosing:
3ml All for Reef daily
3ml Cheato Gro weekly
2ml AB+ daily
5ml Microbactor 7 & Clean weekly
No3 and PO4 as needed

Feeding is a blend of Reef Frenzy Nano, Reef Roids, AB+, and Frozen Mysis in homemade cubes.

Source water is RODI with tested TDS 0.0 using 2 different meters. Salt is IO Reef Crystals. I do a 10% water change monthly.

Stocking: 2 Clowns, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Yellow Watchman Goby and Tiger PIstol Shrimp, 1 Banngai Cardinal, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 10 Astrea Turbo, 30 Dwarf Ceriths, 4 Red Legs, 10 Blue legs, 1 Trochus, 10 Nassarius.

I'm positive I'm not introducing anything into the tank. I always wear gloves and keep my hands out as much as possible. So far I've had 1 hammer die, 3 others that are very unhappy, acans receding, zoas constantly stressed/changing color/partially open, and 4 dead gonies.

I've convinced myself that I need more flow despite running 900gph through the return with 1/2" RFG's. I've ordered 2 600gph powerheads to combat this and I also made a video of the normal flow here:


That's about all I can think to add at this point. Any Ideas?

STOP Dosing.

Have you sent off water samples for ICP. I did my first after 3 month and have done 2 more over 10 months.
At 8 months I started dosing Randy's 2 part with Reef Anabolics after my 2nd ICP said I was deficient in essential elements.

 

[WheatToast]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
@brandon429

 

[Kasrift]

STOP Dosing.

Have you sent off water samples for ICP. I did my first after 3 month and have done 2 more over 10 months.
At 8 months I started dosing Randy's 2 part with Reef Anabolics after my 2nd ICP said I was deficient in essential elements.

I like your Mandarin goby in that shot! It's hard to get pics of mine.

On the note of your advice, it seems contrary. Stop dosing, and "oh my ICP says I'm deficient on essential elements". Again, based on my prior posts I don't think there is anything wrong with some of the dosing. But I also agree that keeping it simple is good advice, particularly when trying to triage an issue. The net of it is that people are going to give the OP a lot of conflicting advice based on personal experience.

I'd say with any problem solving, start by eliminating variables. Nothing will immediately die if you stop dosing AFR, Red Sea AB+, etc. Start with a little and see how things react.

 

[PeterEde]

I like your Mandarin goby in that shot! It's hard to get pics of mine.

On the note of your advice, it seems contrary. Stop dosing, and "oh my ICP says I'm deficient on essential elements". Again, based on my prior posts I don't think there is anything wrong with some of the dosing. But I also agree that keeping it simple is good advice, particularly when trying to triage an issue. The net of it is that people are going to give the OP a lot of conflicting advice based on personal experience.

I'd say with any problem solving, start by eliminating variables. Nothing will immediately die if you stop dosing AFR, Red Sea AB+, etc. Start with a little and see how things react.

I think dosing is only necessary once corals are happy and growing at which point they are taking up essential elements from the water ie calcium and other essential trace elements. If corals are not growing and you are dosing then it's possible with out an ICP test that you are now very high in some of the trace elements at which point they can become too high and dangerous.
Feeding Redsea A+B I would think ok since it's food. Until recently was only dosing A+B once a week.

Thanks for the comment re Mandy. I hand feed her brine every other day. I hope she's getting some pods. She is fatter now than when I got her.
She's rather partial to the camera and will come to the glass to have a shot

 

[rennjidk]

STOP Dosing.

Have you sent off water samples for ICP. I did my first after 3 month and have done 2 more over 10 months.
At 8 months I started dosing Randy's 2 part with Reef Anabolics after my 2nd ICP said I was deficient in essential elements.

I plan on sending in my first test at 4 months. To me, and I maybe wrong as this is not an area where I have extensive knowledge, it seems unlikely that my small frags (predominantly soft corals) would be able to diminish trace elements to a substantial degree within that timeframe. It would seem more plausible that my corals are not utilizing everything available and thus leading to a build up, although I feel that this is highly unlikely to be at toxic levels due to the very small amount (3ml) of AFR being dosed.

 

[PeterEde]

I plan on sending in my first test at 4 months. To me, and I maybe wrong as this is not an area where I have extensive knowledge, it seems unlikely that my small frags (predominantly soft corals) would be able to diminish trace elements to a substantial degree within that timeframe. It would seem more plausible that my corals are not utilizing everything available and thus leading to a build up, although I feel that this is highly unlikely to be at toxic levels due to the very small amount (3ml) of AFR being dosed.

I would send an ICP now if having issues that don't make sense.
You may fin you have elevated levels of something undesirable.
My first ICP told me my water was very good. My latest said I was low in Iodine, mangenese, calcium (compared to test kit) but I had elevated silicate, tin and iron. I had added a fleece roller and a rubber reducer. I have now removed the reducer as it was the only component I got at a local hardware store.

Hopeful my next ICP in a few months will tell me tin has reduced.
I am now attempting the triton method and rarely doing WCunless I have an issue. I am now going a few weeks between WC and only doing 5 gal out of a 40 gallon tank. My fish and corals appear happy and growing


I watch BRS videos. I find them helpful as I do advice here.

 

[zaga]

I plan on sending in my first test at 4 months. To me, and I maybe wrong as this is not an area where I have extensive knowledge, it seems unlikely that my small frags (predominantly soft corals) would be able to diminish trace elements to a substantial degree within that timeframe. It would seem more plausible that my corals are not utilizing everything available and thus leading to a build up, although I feel that this is highly unlikely to be at toxic levels due to the very small amount (3ml) of AFR being dosed.

You are making this overly complicated.

 

[rennjidk]

I would send an ICP now if having issues that don't make sense.

What didn't make sense to me was my fluctuating dKH and bottoming nutrients. I have since solved that with help of others earlier in the post.

I've watched BRS' entire channel multiple times. I love the MACNA coverage they upload.

 

[BrotatoSalad]

EDIT: Caught up on the other pages. Seems like you figured out what was going on already. Hope your corals bounce back and you're sharing frags with the town soon!

I started my tank almost exactly like you. Dry rock, dry sand(in mine), and AF Life Source. You may be fighting your rocks binding calcium and nutrients. Made a post in June asking about this that RHF chimed in on (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alk-dropping-in-newish-tank-with-no-corals.922712/). My tank actually bottomed out on nutrients during this process and I still don't have detectable nutrients months after.

The difference is that I didn't have corals in the tank while my rocks were binding things and dropping Alk as a result. It's possible that you're rocks are making it difficult to dial in your AFR dosing which might be a piece ticking off your corals?

My tank did eventually get to a point where it stopped binding and my alk stayed stable between water changes with no corals. Added an acro frag and within a week it was pale. Still had some polyps but man that thing was pure white. My guess was the bottomed out nutrients so I decided to start up my carbon dosing with Plus NP (carbon dosing with extra nutrients in it) and see how it got on. It's a few weeks later and it's bounced back quite a bit. It's not the deep colors it was originally, but I'd compare it to how Zeovit ran tanks look.
I can't fully endorse carbon dosing since I've only started it this year on a tank with a single frag in it, but I'm impressed what a few weeks of it has done for the little acro that could in my tank. Acro is basing out now and the color is getting better every day.

I'll add that I really didn't see much change in my acro until a recent pod population explosion in my tank. It's simmering down now, but last week there wasn't an inch of glass that didn't have 20 of them and they were flying around in my water column. Looked like a bacteria bloom until shut off flow and saw the things darting around. My fish wouldn't even eat mysis because it was so full with the pods lol.

If things are already downhill, it may be worth dropping down the AFR dose and keeping it the same, or stopping it all together while you wait for your rocks to stop binding stuff.

Not sure if this is any help, but your tank start is so stinking similar to mine that I wanted to share my bit of experience with the same issues. I have a build thread where I talked about some of these struggles (second page) as well if you wanted to look at that.

Can't wait to see your tank hit its stride!

 

[Jogging stroller dad]

That’s a tough spot.. I cannot really tell you what might be going on with your tank but I can give you some experience, strength and hope with my own tank. I’ve had a bio cube 32 for 3 years now and it has been a journey. I started out blazing and added fish, a few corals within the first 6 months… lost them all. I found some stability with a reboot. Added a fish at a time and no more than one a month. Doses Dr Tim’s one and. Only, a month latter i used sea chem stability, a month latter i used Microbacter 7. Added pods on the rare occasion, when through about 3 months of no water change, just top offs . I took it slow and the tank has really matured. Now planning a bigger tank and going to go at a 4 month cycle with the rock and 2L of sea chem matrix I have in the back of the bio cube. Filtration and slow going has helped tremendously. But I’m still a newbie but there is some joy in this hobby if you can tune it in.

 

[Sargeeq]

For 30 gal tank, I will stop all the dosing. Just 10% water change every few days will do the trick and see how it go. Don't expect all the coral turn healthy overnight. It take at least couple weeks or even longer for the coral to recover

TLDR

Everyone has different keys for success. At the end of the day, stability is the only thing we can all agree on.

3 months is SUPER young for a reef tank, Hell I didn't even add corals until my tank was 4-5 months old. Even then it took 3-5 months before the corals started to really take off and grow.

My advice pick some numbers and stay there with minimal dosing. (DO NOT MICRO MANAGE)
I use WWC recommendations (below) and it wasn't until I got my NO and PO to 20PPM and .5PPM respectfully that I really started to have growth speed up and coloration coming back in my corals.
I do 15% water changes every 2 weeks (or if my Nitrates get higher than 30 because I over feed and I know it)

Last thing I want to point out is the range below. Notice they are not specific, my Alkalinity can get as high as 9 and low as 8.4 between water changes. This allows me to make very small adjustments to my dosing to keep it within my range. I think that is more important than trying to manage a very exact number, which just isn't realistic. (again don't micro manage it and let it live some)

PARAMETER	REEF AQUARIUM
SPECIFIC GRAVITY	1.024-1.026
TEMPERATURE	75-78 DEGREES F
PH	8.1-8.4
CALCIUM	380-450PPM
ALKALINITY	8-9dKH
MAGNESIUM	1300-1450PPM
NITRATE (NO3)	10-30PPM
PHOSPHATE	0.01-0.1PPM
NITRITE (NO2)	UNDETECTABLE
AMMONIA (NH3)	UNDETECTABLE

 

[rennjidk]

TLDR

Everyone has different keys for success. At the end of the day, stability is the only thing we can all agree on.

3 months is SUPER young for a reef tank, Hell I didn't even add corals until my tank was 4-5 months old. Even then it took 3-5 months before the corals started to really take off and grow.

My advice pick some numbers and stay there with minimal dosing. (DO NOT MICRO MANAGE)
I use WWC recommendations (below) and it wasn't until I got my NO and PO to 20PPM and .5PPM respectfully that I really started to have growth speed up and coloration coming back in my corals.
I do 15% water changes every 2 weeks (or if my Nitrates get higher than 30 because I over feed and I know it)

Last thing I want to point out is the range below. Notice they are not specific, my Alkalinity can get as high as 9 and low as 8.4 between water changes. This allows me to make very small adjustments to my dosing to keep it within my range. I think that is more important than trying to manage a very exact number, which just isn't realistic. (again don't micro manage it and let it live some)

PARAMETER	REEF AQUARIUM
SPECIFIC GRAVITY	1.024-1.026
TEMPERATURE	75-78 DEGREES F
PH	8.1-8.4
CALCIUM	380-450PPM
ALKALINITY	8-9dKH
MAGNESIUM	1300-1450PPM
NITRATE (NO3)	10-30PPM
PHOSPHATE	0.01-0.1PPM
NITRITE (NO2)	UNDETECTABLE
AMMONIA (NH3)	UNDETECTABLE

I'm definitely not chasing numbers. People kept ragging on me for dosing Nitates and Phosphate, but the alternative was to just let them sit at zero. This is entirely counterintuitive to me. I'm in no way saying you fall into this group and I completely agree that stability is key, and that there are many ways to get there. My problem is with all the hobbyists who chime in and declare their way as "the only way," or that my knowledge is somehow flawed just because I have not replicated the success of others using the exact same method. People have had keywords like "cycle" "water change" and "microbiome" burned into their brain with no real understanding of what they mean or what they actually do for their tanks. Progress is slow and change is difficult. If anyone debates this, just remember that a blacklight in your T5 fixture was "required" just a few short years ago. Today it's comical.

 

[Sargeeq]

Don't misinterpret what I said. Stability and patience is the bedrock of this hobby. Every tank and hobbyist has their own methods of success, I personally found mine during 15 minute conversation with Vic at WWC that made me realize I was running my system too clean.

As for dosing Nitrates and Phosphates.. I have to dose phosphates personally, even through i feed heavy and even sometimes remove my protein skimmer cup just to help keep them above the dreaded double zeros.

All I am saying is, unless you're fighting something like Dinos, don't try and over manage your tank. Change your water every couple of weeks, not every few days, let some of the bad stuff build up and see what happens.

 

[rennjidk]

Definitely not true.

It absolutely is. You could theoretically go to any salt manufacturer of your choice, and aquire your salt mix without the salt added to it. You would mix it to the new recommended concentration and just add it to your tank. It would be the exact same. Any issues you solve by removing a volume of water from your tank and replacing it with a "new" volume of water are secondary to the argument and inconsequential (ie: nutrient and pollution dilution). There is no magical "x factor" that WCs provide, it just doesn't exist.

 

[rennjidk]

Don't misinterpret what I said. Stability and patience is the bedrock of this hobby. Every tank and hobbyist has their own methods of success, I personally found mine during 15 minute conversation with Vic at WWC that made me realize I was running my system too clean.

As for dosing Nitrates and Phosphates.. I have to dose phosphates personally, even through i feed heavy and even sometimes remove my protein skimmer cup just to help keep them above the dreaded double zeros.

All I am saying is, unless you're fighting something like Dinos, don't try and over manage your tank. Change your water every couple of weeks, not every few days, let some of the bad stuff build up and see what happens.

I didn't misunderstand at all, and I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[rennjidk]

It's been an interesting read, I learned some stuff. My only contribution is that the thread title may someday inspire my Reef Diary Memoir, which I will entitle "I'm Clearly Doing Something Wrong"

Just be sure to give me a notation