I've been in this hobby for a year now and I just cant seem to make it work. I can you the communities advice, as I'm clearly doing something wrong.

[rennjidk]

Marketing often presents itself as science and is responsible for a lot of misinformation in this hobby. Not all information presented by people or companies that have something to sell is everything it is made out to be. Be wary.

I would be hard pressed to find anyone within the scientific biological community who disputes this.

 

[Thales]

Progress is slow and change is difficult. If anyone debates this, just remember that a blacklight in your T5 fixture was "required" just a few short years ago. Today it's comical.

Who said this?

 

[Reefkeeper28]

I'm really struggling to keep corals alive, and though I've followed all the steps to success, everything seems to just slowly die. I'll post as much relevant information as I can starting with my reef journal:

The tank is 3 months old Nuvo 30L (30g) and started completely sterile with the exception of Ocean Direct sand and Aqua Forest reef mud. Salinity has been kept consistent at 34.5ppt using 2 different test methods and a Tunze ATO. Temperature is a constant 77.1F. PH is 7.9. The sump consists of filter floss pads, a chaeto fuge on 8 hours at night, Rox 0.8 carbon, and Purigen. Lighting is provided by 2 AI Primes running 11 hours a day (with 4 hours total ramp) at 8" off the water tuned to UV80/V80/RB72/B100/R10/G10/W10 which should be giving around 100 par based on other people's testing.

Dosing:
3ml All for Reef daily
3ml Cheato Gro weekly
2ml AB+ daily
5ml Microbactor 7 & Clean weekly
No3 and PO4 as needed

Feeding is a blend of Reef Frenzy Nano, Reef Roids, AB+, and Frozen Mysis in homemade cubes.

Source water is RODI with tested TDS 0.0 using 2 different meters. Salt is IO Reef Crystals. I do a 10% water change monthly.

Stocking: 2 Clowns, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Yellow Watchman Goby and Tiger PIstol Shrimp, 1 Banngai Cardinal, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 10 Astrea Turbo, 30 Dwarf Ceriths, 4 Red Legs, 10 Blue legs, 1 Trochus, 10 Nassarius.

I'm positive I'm not introducing anything into the tank. I always wear gloves and keep my hands out as much as possible. So far I've had 1 hammer die, 3 others that are very unhappy, acans receding, zoas constantly stressed/changing color/partially open, and 4 dead gonies.

I've convinced myself that I need more flow despite running 900gph through the return with 1/2" RFG's. I've ordered 2 600gph powerheads to combat this and I also made a video of the normal flow here:


That's about all I can think to add at this point. Any Ideas?

 

[Dav2996]

I'm really struggling to keep corals alive, and though I've followed all the steps to success, everything seems to just slowly die. I'll post as much relevant information as I can starting with my reef journal:

The tank is 3 months old Nuvo 30L (30g) and started completely sterile with the exception of Ocean Direct sand and Aqua Forest reef mud. Salinity has been kept consistent at 34.5ppt using 2 different test methods and a Tunze ATO. Temperature is a constant 77.1F. PH is 7.9. The sump consists of filter floss pads, a chaeto fuge on 8 hours at night, Rox 0.8 carbon, and Purigen. Lighting is provided by 2 AI Primes running 11 hours a day (with 4 hours total ramp) at 8" off the water tuned to UV80/V80/RB72/B100/R10/G10/W10 which should be giving around 100 par based on other people's testing.

Dosing:
3ml All for Reef daily
3ml Cheato Gro weekly
2ml AB+ daily
5ml Microbactor 7 & Clean weekly
No3 and PO4 as needed

Feeding is a blend of Reef Frenzy Nano, Reef Roids, AB+, and Frozen Mysis in homemade cubes.

Source water is RODI with tested TDS 0.0 using 2 different meters. Salt is IO Reef Crystals. I do a 10% water change monthly.

Stocking: 2 Clowns, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Yellow Watchman Goby and Tiger PIstol Shrimp, 1 Banngai Cardinal, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 10 Astrea Turbo, 30 Dwarf Ceriths, 4 Red Legs, 10 Blue legs, 1 Trochus, 10 Nassarius.

I'm positive I'm not introducing anything into the tank. I always wear gloves and keep my hands out as much as possible. So far I've had 1 hammer die, 3 others that are very unhappy, acans receding, zoas constantly stressed/changing color/partially open, and 4 dead gonies.

I've convinced myself that I need more flow despite running 900gph through the return with 1/2" RFG's. I've ordered 2 600gph powerheads to combat this and I also made a video of the normal flow here:


That's about all I can think to add at this point. Any Ideas?

I got a nuvo 20 gallon please stop carbon dosing. Get a larger skimmer I got Aquamax hobb1.5 it cleared out so much algae and crap out of my tank. PH swings from carbon dosing is bad. I also never do water changes because I find I loose more crap doing them then not doing them because it’s too much work trying to match old water to new water or you get issues. Like match alkalinity calcium magnesium or there is a change and that ticks somthing off. Rather just dose everything I love kalkwasser. Raises PH and alk and calcium I dose it.

 

[Reefkeeper28]

It's just a newer tank although with the correct experience it really doesn't matter, but until then slow and steady. First question why are you dosing so many additives seems like chasing perfect number's so it's not stable just going up and down. Also I'd have to read again seemed like alk was going up and down alot even if I don't add alk for day's number's shouldn't be that crazy. The real key is diversity add several different bacteria and pods will help alot. If salinity, ph, temp are stable as I believe you said just figure out your alk swings and stop all other dosing. So alk, diversity, keep your media in if you want although wouldn't hurt to pull and let it rise a bit and perhaps pods and leave it alone. Sometimes the best thing aquarist can do is nothing...

 

[Reefkeeper28]

My tank is about 3 months old now and I started with all dry rock and sand. You really need to watch the phosphate because once you crank the lights on and algae builds up phosphate will deplete fast. I am feeding heavy and dosing phosphate just to keep it from bottoming out which has helped a ton. Also, I'm adding corals very slowly, (like one or two small frags every other week). So far this strategy has been working great for me.

In your case if alage is showing up it's because your phosphates are feeding them so you think your phosphates are low, but actually their high due to alage consuming it's food and growing unless I read comment wrong. Just trying to help happy reefing

 

[Reefer6]

I would also like to note on my 3 month old system I have been doing a daily 1 gallon water change on my 45 gallon system, and I feel like it has helped with overall tank health. I'm still going through the uglies, I have some dinos, diatoms, and random strands of green hair algae here and there but it is not taking over and I am able to easily manage it along with my CUC.

You are impeeding your tanks progress tinkering in my opinion. You add filtration in stages as the tank grows. You actually need very little filtration to keep your tank healthy. And all tanks get ugly if you let algea build up. Im
Patiently waiting for the "uglies" to clear up on my 32 gal. It will be 2 years old in April and ive just started dosing all for reef.

 

[Udest]

Much of this was a bit much to read but from the gist of it I think you might just want to let it ride a while and let the tank settle.

 

[Hover1974]

Biodiversity and chemical stability cannot be purchased from a bottle and cannot be rushed. I’ve had numerous reef tanks and I’ve learned the hard (and expensive) way. Start by getting your cycle completed. You appear to have done this part right. Ammonia, nitrites to zero and keep nitrates between 2 and 10.

Stop dosing alk and ca for now. Your salt mix should provide all the stability you need with a weekly 10% water change.

Only stock softies for now. Zoas are my favorite. When the number of heads of your zoas double, you’ll know they’re growing and it’s time for the next step.

After zoas are going strong, begin with leathers and other large softies. Keep them for a month or so, and ensure you have good polyp extension, then graduate to the euphyllas (around the 6 month point). All this time, you’ll be creating biodiversity by accident, not be adding a whole bunch of chemicals.

About this time, you’ll likely want to add a bottle of pods and a team of amphipods as a cleanup crew. You’ll be amazed at how much sludge these guys consume. After 8-12 months, you’ll be ready for SPS. This is when you’ll begin to start dosing alk and CA. Until you have rapid growth of clams, SPS and LPS, simple water changes will be enough to replenish CA and ALK.

give it a year before you expect the tank to thrive. You’ll have ugly phases (hair algae, diatoms, dinoflagellates, etc. they are annoying and frustrating as hell) But this is part of the process in creating the biodiversity we all crave. Resist adding quick fix chemicals…they’re are a host of people out there that will take your money in exchange for crashing your tank!

 

[rennjidk]

Who said this?

Here's a reef central thread debating the use back in 2007 which is the most recent example I can find, but they were strongly pushed by LFS and reefing guides long before intenet forums where a thing.

 

[DIFish]

I think everyone who keeps saying water changes alone will replace the CA and Alk loss don’t understand the demand of the 30+ frags OP has….. He is probably losing at least .5DKH per day, if not more. That’s a swing of 3.5/week without dosing. A 10% weekly water change for standard salt will give him like .5DKH back, not nearly enough. Water changes are crazy inefficient for replacing Alk and CA and the reason most people were able to get away with them for a year is because they did not have a high coral load. If you have lots of corals water changes alone are not even close to enough and dosing is absolutely required.

 

[Pkunk35]

This thread is a good example of what is wrong with forums these days.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Biodiversity and chemical stability cannot be purchased from a bottle and cannot be rushed. I’ve had numerous reef tanks and I’ve learned the hard (and expensive) way. Start by getting your cycle completed. You appear to have done this part right. Ammonia, nitrites to zero and keep nitrates between 2 and 10.

Stop dosing alk and ca for now. Your salt mix should provide all the stability you need with a weekly 10% water change.

Only stock softies for now. Zoas are my favorite. When the number of heads of your zoas double, you’ll know they’re growing and it’s time for the next step.

After zoas are going strong, begin with leathers and other large softies. Keep them for a month or so, and ensure you have good polyp extension, then graduate to the euphyllas (around the 6 month point). All this time, you’ll be creating biodiversity by accident, not be adding a whole bunch of chemicals.

About this time, you’ll likely want to add a bottle of pods and a team of amphipods as a cleanup crew. You’ll be amazed at how much sludge these guys consume. After 8-12 months, you’ll be ready for SPS. This is when you’ll begin to start dosing alk and CA. Until you have rapid growth of clams, SPS and LPS, simple water changes will be enough to replenish CA and ALK.

give it a year before you expect the tank to thrive. You’ll have ugly phases (hair algae, diatoms, dinoflagellates, etc. they are annoying and frustrating as hell) But this is part of the process in creating the biodiversity we all crave. Resist adding quick fix chemicals…they’re are a host of people out there that will take your money in exchange for crashing your tank!

Welcome.

 

[ReefGeezer]

This thread is a good example of what is wrong with forums these days.

Maybe it would be a good idea to expand on that statement. What is wrong with the forum?

 

[rennjidk]

I think everyone who keeps saying water changes alone will replace the CA and Alk loss don’t understand the demand of the 30+ frags OP has….. He is probably losing at least .5DKH per day, if not more. That’s a swing of 3.5/week without dosing. A 10% weekly water change for standard salt will give him like .5DKH back, not nearly enough. Water changes are crazy inefficient for replacing Alk and CA and the reason most people were able to get away with them for a year is because they did not have a high coral load. If you have lots of corals water changes alone are not even close to enough and dosing is absolutely required.

Before I set up this tank, I had around 1/3 of the frags in an Evo for about a year and even then I had to start dosing after 4 months because my alk was TANKING even with 50% weekly changes using high alk salt. It was R2R who told me to start dosing in the first place and recommended AFR.

Edit: I also find it hilarious that the root cause of my issues have been low nutrients and at least 60% of the replies are saying to INCREASE the number of water changes I'm doing.

 

[DIFish]

Before I set up this tank, I had around 1/3 of the frags in an Evo for about a year and even then I had to start dosing after 4 months because my alk was TANKING even with 50% weekly changes using high alk salt. It was R2R who told me to start dosing in the first place and recommended AFR.

Edit: I also find it hilarious that the root cause of my issues have been low nutrients and at least 60% of the replies are saying to INCREASE the number of water changes I'm doing.

Yeah water changes while generally being a good thing, would only keep your Nitrates and phosphate low. Water changes are awesome when your nutrients are too high or you have contaminants in the water. Not the best when you are trying to essentially keep the water dirty. I am finding some success raising nutrients by dosing ammonia and neophos as I too have bottomed out using AFR on a new tank and now have Dinos. I think you are on the right path now of raising nutrients back up and look forward to the progress pics in a few months!

 

[rennjidk]

Yeah water changes while generally being a good thing, would only keep your Nitrates and phosphate low. Water changes are awesome when your nutrients are too high or you have contaminants in the water. Not the best when you are trying to essentially keep the water dirty. I am finding some success raising nutrients by dosing ammonia and neophos as I too have bottomed out using AFR on a new tank and now have Dinos. I think you are on the right path now of raising nutrients back up and look forward to the progress pics in a few months!

I would dose something more along the lines of neonitrate instead just pure ammonia.

 

[Thales]

Here's a reef central thread debating the use back in 2007 which is the most recent example I can find, but they were strongly pushed by LFS and reefing guides long before intenet forums where a thing.

Thanks - having been involved with the hobby/industry since before internet forums were a thing, I disagree that blacklights were ever strongly pushed by stores or "Reefing guides" - they were certainly not "required". 'Actinic' lights sure, blacklights not so much.

 

[DIFish]

I would dose something more along the lines of neonitrate instead just pure ammonia.

I thought about that but I was interested in some of what I have read on ammonia dosing. When dosing ammonia it acts similar to increasing fish bio load vs straight nitrate. Some corals may even grow better with trace ammonia. Plus I have some more fish coming in soon and am prepping the bacteria for their arrival. Either way both are trying to achieve the same goal so I don’t think either is wrong. If you are interested from @Randy Holmes-Farley

Like most things in seawater, amounts matter for the answer.

Corals can use ammonia as a source of nitrogen, and may even prefer it to nitrate.

At some high enough concentration, it will become toxic. I'm not sure of the exact level where it stops becoming useful and becomes toxic, but at least for one hard coral, as much as 0.09 ppm ammonia helped at least one hard coral when not getting its fill of plankton food.

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[UnderWater1051]

At 3 months, your tank has not yet matured. I believe it takes a minimum of 12 months for that too occur. It is a process the tank must go through or success will elude you. At the end of that period you will know where you stand and can figure out what should be dosed, if anything. During the first year, our nitrates were low but the phosphates were high. We fought green hair algae and then dinos. The dinos occurred because we tried too hard too stabilize the phosphates. We learned any changes using chemical additives must be made slowly. I now start by adding only 1/3 of the recommended dose. The algae was consuming the phosphates and probably the nitrates so testing was not showing accurate results for those nutrients in our tank but we did not know that. I also learned from this forum the dry rock was probably releasing some phosphate as well which will reduce naturally over time. We dosed MB7 and added copepods for diversity, but remember, the copepods need to be fed phytoplankton which increases nitrates. You have to let the tank work through all of these stages and it requires time & patience and this is one hobby that will test your patience. We concentrated on stabilizing the nitrates and phosphates during the first year. We only added a few soft and LPS corals so the water changes alone could keep these corals happy. At 18 months, the parameters have remained stable enough that we are now experimenting with sps which require higher nitrate but lower dkh levels than we previously maintained (I feel a headache coming on) . I see you are using Purigen which will polish your water but also reduces nitrates. Since your nitrates are bottoming out, stop the chaeto and the purigen and let the tank ride making necessary but small changes to increase your nitrates. You will have difficulty maintaining any sps corals at this time but I am not experienced enough to help you out with this but all of this dosing is not allowing your tank to stabilize. I will be the first to admit this can be a very difficult & frustrating hobby. I have felt like pulling my hair out on many occasions. Patience and perseverance is the key. Don't give up and always feel free to ask for help from this forum which I found contains a wealth of information. There is so much to learn. In the meantime, can you let us know what test kits you are using and how you test your salinity?