How to Quarantine

[Dreadnaught]

No observed aggression. They were both small. The one that died didn't move much.

 

[Humblefish]

No observed aggression. They were both small. The one that died didn't move much.

It's difficult to say really, whether it was a disease or just a weak fish that died. I wouldn't be too rattled by it, however.

 

[Dreadnaught]

That's what I thought, I appreciate you reaffirming. Thanks for advice.

 

[Salty.Reefer]

Im sorry if this has been answered already but this thread is quite long to read all the way through. Would anyone advise against using NSW in a QT tank. My DT has been running NSW since day 1 and everything is happy. I do have a RODI unit but not salt currently as I have been interested in running a NSW tank for a long time.

 

[Humblefish]

Im sorry if this has been answered already but this thread is quite long to read all the way through. Would anyone advise against using NSW in a QT tank. My DT has been running NSW since day 1 and everything is happy. I do have a RODI unit but not salt currently as I have been interested in running a NSW tank for a long time.

The issue with using NSW in a QT (or DT) tank is you could introduce free swimming pathogens the fish doesn't have or hasn't built up immunity to. For example, I assume you are collecting your NSW from the California coast - which is mostly cold water. But are you then only collecting local specimens to put in your DT?

When you buy a fish from the LFS that originally came from Indonesia or the Philippines or Australia, that fish will have no immunity whatsoever to, say, a cold water variant of ich or harmful bacteria. Because it's never been in contact with such in the wild. It's akin to when Europeans arrived in the New World and wiped out many Indians with disease. Just something to think about...

 

[Salty.Reefer]

The issue with using NSW in a QT (or DT) tank is you could introduce free swimming pathogens the fish doesn't have or hasn't built up immunity to. For example, I assume you are collecting your NSW from the California coast - which is mostly cold water. But are you then only collecting local specimens to put in your DT?

When you buy a fish from the LFS that originally came from Indonesia or the Philippines or Australia, that fish will have no immunity whatsoever to, say, a cold water variant of ich or harmful bacteria. Because it's never been in contact with such in the wild. It's akin to when Europeans arrived in the New World and wiped out many Indians with disease. Just something to think about...

Thank you @Humblefish. I have been thinking abut the possibility of this exact situation. The only thing giving me reassurance is that quite a few LFS and some local R2R members as well as the public aquariums keep tropical fish and corals in NSW collected from around here. Still nervous though!
Do you think it is possible to reduce the risk of pelagic pathogens with the use of a sand filter? I am currently only running the water through a filter sock a few times and testing all the parameters.

 

[Humblefish]

Do you think it is possible to reduce the risk of pelagic pathogens with the use of a sand filter? I am currently only running the water through a filter sock a few times and testing all the parameters.

Now that I think about it, there is an easier way to neutralize this threat. Isolate the water for 16 days before using it. You are only at risk of picking up the free swimming stage in NSW. Most parasite theronts need to find a fish host to feed upon within 48 hrs or they die. The sole exception is velvet; it's free swimming stage (called dinospores) can remain infective for up to 15 days (without needing a fish host) because as a dinoflagellate it is capable of drawing energy from light.

 

[Salty.Reefer]

Now that I think about it, there is an easier way to neutralize this threat. Isolate the water for 16 days before using it. You are only at risk of picking up the free swimming stage in NSW. Most parasite theronts need to find a fish host to feed upon within 48 hrs or they die. The sole exception is velvet; it's free swimming stage (called dinospores) can remain infective for up to 15 days (without needing a fish host) because as a dinoflagellate it is capable of drawing energy from light.

Thanks! That is great advice. Sorry not to pepper you with questions but what if I kept the NSW aerated and in a dark shed or in a trashcan with a top? Would that decrease the lifespan of dinospores? I wish I had you as a professor in college. I could sit through your lectures all day!

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks! That is great advice. Sorry not to pepper you with questions but what if I kept the NSW aerated and in a dark shed or in a trashcan with a top? Would that decrease the lifespan of dinospores? I wish I had you as a professor in college. I could sit through your lectures all day!

It probably would, but it's impossible to say exactly how long that would shorten the dinospores lifespan.

Thanks for the compliment, but just for the record I am not a professor. Just a guy who has been obsessed with fish diseases for a very long time.

 

[Neptune 555]

My quarantine process is similar to Option A listed above, with a slight variation. I don't like to medicate unless absolutely necessary; the only med I use for prophylactic treatment is Prazipro since it's one of the most gentle meds at our disposal. My protocol:

Day 1: New fish in QT with salinity matched to transport bag (I buy all of my fish online)
Day 2-3: Ensure fish is acclimated properly and is eating well.
Day 4: First round of Prazipro
Day 9: Partial WC, followed by second round of Prazipro
Day 14: Start TTM
Day 26: Finish TTM, observe for additional week (minimum) to ensure no Amyloodinium or Brooklynella is present
Day 33+: Transfer to DT

If velvet or brook rear their ugly heads, I cease TTM and treat for these parasites immediately (I have CP and formalin on hand as part of my "fish medicine cabinet"). If the fish is shipped at a low salinity (most online retailers ship fish at around 1.018), I raise the salinity by 0.001 during each transfer in TTM. I keep my DT at 1.025, so no extended acclimation is required when the fish is moved.

@Deinonych what do you do for ammonia control during your TTM and TTM and prazi treatment? I just had a fish expire doing prime and prazi - I can only think that was the culprit? Hmm? No more prime but now I am worried about ammonia?

Neptune

 

[melypr1985]

@Deinonych what do you do for ammonia control during your TTM and TTM and prazi treatment? I just had a fish expire doing prime and prazi - I can only think that was the culprit? Hmm? No more prime but now I am worried about ammonia?

Neptune

You can always do a water change on the container they are in, or just transfer them over a day early whenever you see ammonia show up.

 

[Neptune 555]

Specific Questions on QT tank...

So it is OK to use Prime as ammonia remover if not dosing anything else. If using prazipro then No prime. How long can say 3 fish stay in QT with out ammonia issues? I would think that even 2 days is to long?

If I were to switch to General Cure.. can I dose prime for ammonia?

Has anyone used bacter GenM from Continuum Aquatics to add bacteria to the QT and therefore remove ammonia? If I were to add a filter pad soaked in Bacter GenM to the tank would that help? It would not be in a HOB filter b/c I use powerheads for circulation in QT?

Between TTM I thought just letting the tank completely dry out... was enough for cleaning. No bleach or vinegar required? I am placing empty tanks in direct sunlight in the heat for 24 hours.

Thanks!
Neptune

 

[Humblefish]

So it is OK to use Prime as ammonia remover if not dosing anything else. If using prazipro then No prime. How long can say 3 fish stay in QT with out ammonia issues? I would think that even 2 days is to long?

So long as you don't try to QT too many fish at once, 3 days should be fine without encountering ammonia. But you can always dose a little Prime or Amquel on Day 2 as a precaution.

If I were to switch to General Cure.. can I dose prime for ammonia?

I would not dose an ammonia reducer with any medications. Too many unknown variables.

Between TTM I thought just letting the tank completely dry out... was enough for cleaning. No bleach or vinegar required? I am placing empty tanks in direct sunlight in the heat for 24 hours.

I personally do a quick wipe down using a vinegar soaked paper towel, rinse thoroughly, and then let a fan blow on everything for 3 days. Probably overkill, but its just how I like to do it.

 

[Frop]

what about letting the qt cycle?? i read you said you could use DT water mixed with a new batch of water to start your qt. but if you just mix a fresh batch of water and put it in a bare bottom tank and just start letting it run...how long do you think??? i feel i'm confused because no use of live rock or sand...is that what you meant by seeding the sponge filter to get the cycle started?

i should of started up a qt a while back but never did....still want to but assuming all my fish are ok(i hope so) i'd only be buying 1-2 more.

All I know is my QT was setup because I saw the Ich and I was trying to save my fish ASAP. I took 50% DT water with 50% new. Put in a pump filter with small amounts of media from my DT refugium into my QT since bacteria is already alive and set my fish there. He has verb alive for a week so I feel it's currently a success.

Probably doesn't answer your question but it relates ;p

 

[RamsReef]

I can't even get my wife to clean the glass while I am away ... let alone test copper levels. I'm lucky if the fish even get fed.

How do I double like a post?

 

[Frop]

How do I double like a post?

Haha I am the opposite I don't want anyone to touch my fish tank. I'm afraid of anything going wrong. just stay 2 feet back or more xD

 

[Pagerone]

I just got ick in my display tank and have to set up a qt but I do t have a qt set up or cycled I'm got all the stuff but I'm worried about the tank it's not cycled how should I do this so I don't get ammonia spikes

 

[Frop]

I just got ick in my display tank and have to set up a qt but I do t have a qt set up or cycled I'm got all the stuff but I'm worried about the tank it's not cycled how should I do this so I don't get ammonia spikes

For my emergency QT I just grabbed a filter from my nano (that had the bio media in it) and tank water from the DT and some new. Then immediately added them to a 10 gallon and my only fish since everything was already established. Then I bought a new filter (that holds more bio media) and had both running and finally turned the first one off. Also added one of those seachem alert ammonia things. If ammonia did get high then you can WC it out.

 

[Obxcarver]

What can be done to build bio load in QT when DT is diseased and using CP? (DT is going fallow. Do not want to cross contaminate. Thanks @Humblefish for showing me the way!) Is there anything to help lighten the load of daily water changes?

AND can liquid Prime be dosed with powder CP safely?

A seachem alert badge has failed me before- I can't bring myself to trust them anymore. Very sad..... I take the long way on this one. Test daily and change water when needed.

 

[VJV]

Hi Humblefish, hoje everything is going well. I have done 2 months of QT to a Foxface and a Regal tang. They went through copper and prazi but the tang throughout the process developed what I believe to be HLLE.

He was really small (in fact, I pondered giving him back when it was brought to me), about 1,5 inches. He never ate pellets and I could only feed mysis on weekends so I believe this could be the result of starving.

This morning I found him laying on the bottom, breading heavily and unable to straighten himself up.

Do you think I can save him? Is there an appropriate medicine for this?

Thanks.