Help!!!

[SaltyShel]

I don’t know if anyone will see this, since my last messages didn’t get a response, but an update … my urchin stayed where he was the night I made this post. He seemed to be moving around a little more, after my water change. I turned down the heat to about 78-79°F just to do it slow. The next morning he was stuck to the glass again like normal, up at the top. then later that day, he was at the bottom but still stuck to the glass.
It was two days ago when I found him upside down and did the water change.
it was yesterday morning when he was on the glass and stuck to it again.
today, he wasn’t on the glass and was on his side, between a rock and the glass, but not holding onto them. He was just sitting upright, no glass in front of his mouth, and looking as if he could fall over any minute.
i left for the day, around 10am, and just got home.
He was upside down again when I got here. I did the same thing as 2 days ago - propped him up against the glass so he’s not upside down, and I put a small piece of nori between his mouth and the glass. He started moving more and was actually holding onto it while he ate it. I noticed some of his little tentacles (not his spines) are moving but they’re curling up and kind of shaking as if he’s struggling to move them. The nori eventually floated away, but he did hold onto it for a while.
i don’t know what is causing this. My nitrates aren’t as high as they used to be plus I did that water change. My salinity is FINALLY up to 1.025 and I just don’t know what’s wrong. I don’t know if maybe he’s just super hungry? But this cyano is really worrying me and I think maybe from him walking through it so much, and having his mouth all over the cyano, maybe that made him sick? I’m not even sure if it IS cyano… since it’s extremely dark red and didn’t start off this red - it used to be a much lighter shade of red. It’s draped over everything, kind of stringy, and there is a snail that has this stuff covering it’s shell - but there’s like bubbles or something. theres a pic I attached of the snail I mentioned.
I hope someone sees this and can help me. He moves the most when nori is in front of him. I have no way to test any other parameters besides nitrate, ammonia, and salt.
please help me if you can..

 

[FishyFishFish]

I’m probably not the best person to help here and hopefully someone else will chime in.

I’m not sure if that red stuff is cyano or dinos. If you search this board then you will find loads of discussion threads on both. Getting rid of that by natural process can take some time; some people will recommend chemical fixes but I’m personally not a great fan of that unless there is no other choice.

With that stuff taking hold, and in such a small tank, it might be better to rip clean it rather than trying to solve it; there are threads on that here too. Always try to keep the parameters (particularly salinity and temp) as stable as possible when changing lots of water or moving the inhabitants into new water.

I would certainly take a cup of water out the the tank (so that it is the same temp and salinity) and clean the red stuff off that snail.

Do you know what the actual temperature is? You need a thermometer; you can’t rely on the dial on the heater itself.

The other parameter that might be worth checking, if you can get a good test kit, is phosphate.

Ideally, you need to get the system stable for a while (i.e. stop making changes), to let things acclimate and de-stress, but this is difficult when you’re fighting other problems.

 

[JNalley]

Dinos are more brown, pretty sure that's Cyano, looks like other cyano outbreaks I've seen.
See this video (started at the spot where he's siphoning it out)


@SaltyShel are you using a sand/gravel vacuum? If so just vacuum it up and continue doing water changes every other day until your Nitrates are in check. What are you running for filtration on the tank? List everything.

 

[SaltyShel]

I’m probably not the best person to help here and hopefully someone else will chime in.

I’m not sure if that red stuff is cyano or dinos. If you search this board then you will find loads of discussion threads on both. Getting rid of that by natural process can take some time; some people will recommend chemical fixes but I’m personally not a great fan of that unless there is no other choice.

With that stuff taking hold, and in such a small tank, it might be better to rip clean it rather than trying to solve it; there are threads on that here too. Always try to keep the parameters (particularly salinity and temp) as stable as possible when changing lots of water or moving the inhabitants into new water.

I would certainly take a cup of water out the the tank (so that it is the same temp and salinity) and clean the red stuff off that snail.

Do you know what the actual temperature is? You need a thermometer; you can’t rely on the dial on the heater itself.

The other parameter that might be worth checking, if you can get a good test kit, is phosphate.

Ideally, you need to get the system stable for a while (i.e. stop making changes), to let things acclimate and de-stress, but this is difficult when you’re fighting other problems.

Thank you for the reply! So I will tell you how the rest of the night went - my urchin still seemed a little off, he was moving so minimally until I got a couple pieces of nori and by using a cake decorating spatula (the long narrow metal ones) I was able to - very difficultly - wedge the nori between his mouth area and the glass where he would then hold onto it for a big and eat it until it floated away. I read online that in my situation I shouldn’t over feed to try and save him because that’s adding more waste and in turn jacking up parameters more. I already had a LOT of nori pieces floating everywhere at this point.
So I decided to do a water change, approx. 3g and I siphoned a whole corner of the cyano out with it (and a lot of sand lol).
my urchin started to move more and eventually was in the sand moving his little spines and walked away.
i will clean off my snail, but do you know if cyano is toxic to me? I know salt water makes me red and itchy wherever it was at, but I was wondering if the cyano could cause any harm to me? If so I will get some gloves.

i definitely need a thermometer, but I don’t have one yet. I do have a digital thermometer for people, the ones you put under your tongue, but idk if that would be good to use? I actually am planning to go get my levels checked today, and I’ll ask about phosphate. About a month ago it was 1 but that’s when I first got my tank.

I think you’re right about needing to start over/rip clean. I’ve been wanting to for a while, I also think there’s something wrong with my return pump but maybe it’s the filtration set up incorrectly. I’ll be detailing the filtration in my next post, in response to the other reply I got.

 

[SaltyShel]

Dinos are more brown, pretty sure that's Cyano, looks like other cyano outbreaks I've seen.
See this video (started at the spot where he's siphoning it out)


@SaltyShel are you using a sand/gravel vacuum? If so just vacuum it up and continue doing water changes every other day until your Nitrates are in check. What are you running for filtration on the tank? List everything.

It definitely looks like cyano to me too, but the bubbles on my snails shell and the tiny (oxygen?) bubbles on my rock, which have been there a while, kind of made me think otherwise. This cyano was light red as it is in the video (thank you btw) when it first started growing, but from sitting there it got so much darker. I was trying to get a new tank all together but I have to wait, cause I can’t afford it & didn’t get approved for Affirm.

as far as filtration goes….. like I said above, I think somethings wrong with my return pump. If you want pics, let me know, but literally the only thing I have in my tank is the return pump (which is dirty and the tube is caked up with idk what), this little carbon pad which is too big to fit comfortably, and this really thin sheet of white filter that sits on top of the carbon pad. I run a BioCube 16 and it comes with a media basket I think, but I’m not sure. I also saw this black spongey looking thing shoved into the chamber next to my return pump.

i noticed that in my tank, there’s a MAX and MIN line for the water level, and it’s on the window for the return chamber. When I fill my tank up after the water change, the water level goes waaaay above the MAX line. When I try to lower the water level below the MAX line, my return pump spits out air into the tank. So no matter what I do, the water level is too high. The middle chamber has some plastic thing in it, which might be the media basket but idk. Then on top of it I have the carbon pad & thin filter pad. So the water flows into the two chambers (not the return side) from these little slots, and it over flows into the return chamber like a waterfall. So basically no matter where my water level is at, if it’s above or below the MAX line, it still 100% passes my filter pads and just drops into the return. Which explains why the nori pieces continue to float around and not get sucked up into the filters. This is the way my dad gave it to me, so it’s possible he either put my filter pads in the wrong place, or the previous owner did and my dad just never changed it, because he told me this is how it’s supposed to be (but obvi isn’t since it’s not filtering). I just swapped out the carbon pad last night, because I have no clue how old it is and it had gunk all over it. The white filter pad isn’t white anymore and it’s caked up with gunk but I don’t have another so I just rinsed it out. My dad did tell me though, that while he had my tank (for 6 months) before I could bring it home, that he ran my tank for 4-6 months on those dirty filter/carbon pads and never rinsed or replaced. But I’ve been cleaning them since I got it.

Anyway I hope this is enough detail for you and it’s not too long to read - trying to give you as much info as possible since none of us get notifications if a reply is posted, like we would for a text, so it’s spaced out.

 

[JNalley]

It definitely looks like cyano to me too, but the bubbles on my snails shell and the tiny (oxygen?) bubbles on my rock, which have been there a while, kind of made me think otherwise. This cyano was light red as it is in the video (thank you btw) when it first started growing, but from sitting there it got so much darker. I was trying to get a new tank all together but I have to wait, cause I can’t afford it & didn’t get approved for Affirm.

as far as filtration goes….. like I said above, I think somethings wrong with my return pump. If you want pics, let me know, but literally the only thing I have in my tank is the return pump (which is dirty and the tube is caked up with idk what), this little carbon pad which is too big to fit comfortably, and this really thin sheet of white filter that sits on top of the carbon pad. I run a BioCube 16 and it comes with a media basket I think, but I’m not sure. I also saw this black spongey looking thing shoved into the chamber next to my return pump.

i noticed that in my tank, there’s a MAX and MIN line for the water level, and it’s on the window for the return chamber. When I fill my tank up after the water change, the water level goes waaaay above the MAX line. When I try to lower the water level below the MAX line, my return pump spits out air into the tank. So no matter what I do, the water level is too high. The middle chamber has some plastic thing in it, which might be the media basket but idk. Then on top of it I have the carbon pad & thin filter pad. So the water flows into the two chambers (not the return side) from these little slots, and it over flows into the return chamber like a waterfall. So basically no matter where my water level is at, if it’s above or below the MAX line, it still 100% passes my filter pads and just drops into the return. Which explains why the nori pieces continue to float around and not get sucked up into the filters. This is the way my dad gave it to me, so it’s possible he either put my filter pads in the wrong place, or the previous owner did and my dad just never changed it, because he told me this is how it’s supposed to be (but obvi isn’t since it’s not filtering). I just swapped out the carbon pad last night, because I have no clue how old it is and it had gunk all over it. The white filter pad isn’t white anymore and it’s caked up with gunk but I don’t have another so I just rinsed it out. My dad did tell me though, that while he had my tank (for 6 months) before I could bring it home, that he ran my tank for 4-6 months on those dirty filter/carbon pads and never rinsed or replaced. But I’ve been cleaning them since I got it.

Anyway I hope this is enough detail for you and it’s not too long to read - trying to give you as much info as possible since none of us get notifications if a reply is posted, like we would for a text, so it’s spaced out.

This is a picture of the back of your tank and what it's supposed to look like. The black balls are biomedia so those can be whatever your chosen biomedia is. I typically use the ceramic MarinePure but it's whatever works best for you. In the top part of the media basket should be some mechanical filtration (filter floss most commonly), in the second chamber of the basket should be some chemical filtration (ChemiPure Blue/Elite), and in the bottom of the basket is where the biomedia typically goes. That sponge that sits between the filter chamber and the biomedia needs to be there, it will stop water from just flowing into the return chamber so you can manage the level, my suggestion is fill up the return right to where there is no noise, and then put in another inch of water, if it's making noise until it's all the way filled up there's something wrong, you may need to clean the pump and return hose and swap out the filter media (Not the biomedia, that should be rinsed in RO/DI but can be returned to that chamber).

 

[jimk60]

I think if this were my tank I would do a complete teardown to do a through cleaning and get the filter working right and your parameters in order. Either re-home your livestock or set up your other tank first. There are numerous threads on here detailing how to do this.

 

[SaltyShel]

This is a picture of the back of your tank and what it's supposed to look like. The black balls are biomedia so those can be whatever your chosen biomedia is. I typically use the ceramic MarinePure but it's whatever works best for you. In the top part of the media basket should be some mechanical filtration (filter floss most commonly), in the second chamber of the basket should be some chemical filtration (ChemiPure Blue/Elite), and in the bottom of the basket is where the biomedia typically goes. That sponge that sits between the filter chamber and the biomedia needs to be there, it will stop water from just flowing into the return chamber so you can manage the level, my suggestion is fill up the return right to where there is no noise, and then put in another inch of water, if it's making noise until it's all the way filled up there's something wrong, you may need to clean the pump and return hose and swap out the filter media (Not the biomedia, that should be rinsed in RO/DI but can be returned to that chamber).

Thank you! My tank looks nothing like that he’s a pic from the top of my tank.
It’s very dirty in the chambers, which is the first thing I’m cleaning once I’m certain my 10g holding tank is cycled. Currently have a LR with some salt water and put some fish food in it and it’s just sitting there while it cycles I guess?

as for the middle chamber…. This pic I included is looking down on the top, but there’s nothing else in it I don’t think. I never knew the filters were in wrong so I never took it apart to inspect. That clear hose in the pic you sent me that connects from the pump to the return pipe is caked up with all kinds of crap that I couldn’t even begin to tell you what it is. It’s like brown/white/golden colors it’s just really bad. But im gonna have to do some rearranging it seems. I’ll try to pull the media basket out, if that’s even what’s in there. I think this lady who had it before did some crazy stuff to it.
I know these pics look horrible and my tank looks even more horrible but I promise I’m going to clean it once I get everything out of it and safely into the 10g holding tank.

AND OH MY GOD. i took a picture of the back of my tank, which isn’t a good picture, and I can’t see the back since it’s up against the wall…. And there IS bio balls but what the heck is that white bag with the moldy looking stuff?!?!!? I’m officially in panic mode

 

[SaltyShel]

I think if this were my tank I would do a complete teardown to do a through cleaning and get the filter working right and your parameters in order. Either re-home your livestock or set up your other tank first. There are numerous threads on here detailing how to do this.

I agree I definitely think it needs a restart. I got it like this, and I’m new to the hobby, so the last thing I want to do is stress myself out so badly over trying to “fix” everything individually, that I get discouraged.


SIDE NOTE:
For anyone who wants to see, I took a video of the back of my tank and I have single images of the middle chamber rear panel view, and the return pump rear panel view. So there’s 2 images of the middle chamber (where the bio balls & white bag is), 3 images of return chamber.

 

[JNalley]

Thank you! My tank looks nothing like that he’s a pic from the top of my tank.
It’s very dirty in the chambers, which is the first thing I’m cleaning once I’m certain my 10g holding tank is cycled. Currently have a LR with some salt water and put some fish food in it and it’s just sitting there while it cycles I guess?

as for the middle chamber…. This pic I included is looking down on the top, but there’s nothing else in it I don’t think. I never knew the filters were in wrong so I never took it apart to inspect. That clear hose in the pic you sent me that connects from the pump to the return pipe is caked up with all kinds of crap that I couldn’t even begin to tell you what it is. It’s like brown/white/golden colors it’s just really bad. But im gonna have to do some rearranging it seems. I’ll try to pull the media basket out, if that’s even what’s in there. I think this lady who had it before did some crazy stuff to it.
I know these pics look horrible and my tank looks even more horrible but I promise I’m going to clean it once I get everything out of it and safely into the 10g holding tank.

AND OH MY GOD. i took a picture of the back of my tank, which isn’t a good picture, and I can’t see the back since it’s up against the wall…. And there IS bio balls but what the heck is that white bag with the moldy looking stuff?!?!!? I’m officially in panic mode

The white bag is either a Chemipure bag (my suspicion) Or another BioMedia bag with ceramics. Here's what I'd do if I was you.

1) Get an Intank Media Basket from: https://intankaquatics.com/intank-media-basket-for-coralife-led-biocube-16/
2) Watch this video: (it explains how to install the basket)
-He puts in Filter floss at the top, BioMedia in the middle, and Chemipure in the bottom. For me, I would swap those 2 around to make maintenance easier, but that's just me.
3) Get the fish into the temp/quarantine tank, and clean everything, run Vinegar or Citric acid through the pump, and then let it dry out.
4) Put put sand, rocks, and new filter media into the tank, and then let it cycle again. Then put the fish back in it.

Change your filter floss every 2-3 days. Change your chemipure Blue/Elite every 1-2 months, Never change your Biomedia, but rinse it in RODI if you see gunk building up on it.

That's what I would do...

 

[SaltyShel]

The white bag is either a Chemipure bag (my suspicion) Or another BioMedia bag with ceramics. Here's what I'd do if I was you.

1) Get an Intank Media Basket from: https://intankaquatics.com/intank-media-basket-for-coralife-led-biocube-16/
2) Watch this video: (it explains how to install the basket)
-He puts in Filter floss at the top, BioMedia in the middle, and Chemipure in the bottom. For me, I would swap those 2 around to make maintenance easier, but that's just me.
3) Get the fish into the temp/quarantine tank, and clean everything, run Vinegar or Citric acid through the pump, and then let it dry out.
4) Put put sand, rocks, and new filter media into the tank, and then let it cycle again. Then put the fish back in it.

Change your filter floss every 2-3 days. Change your chemipure Blue/Elite every 1-2 months, Never change your Biomedia, but rinse it in RODI if you see gunk building up on it.

That's what I would do...

Thank you so much I really appreciate your help a lot and everyone else’s too. I’ll def look into that media basket. I’m not sure if mine is stock or if the previous owner put in a different one. How could I find out if it’s a good quality basket?

As for the media… how do I know what chemipure or media to get? Is there something that works better than others? Or is there not really a difference?
I’m going to do more research and find opinions, but I’m not sure what brand/type I need. Why are the bio balls in there if I replace them and what purpose do they even serve compared to the other media bags? Could my urchin have gotten sick from the old media?


Side question - the day I got my tank from my dad after he had it running w/ livestock for 6mo., he told me how to maintain it. He put only one type of food in the tank (for all animals/coral) and he only fed half of a Hikari frozen cube once weekly. He said water changes roughly every 2 weeks, and clean the filter pads every couple months or so. He never really mentioned testing the water, other than salinity, but never told me about topping off w/ RO/DI. When I got it, the salinity was 1.019 because he somehow managed to get my tank and his 32g up to 1.030 so he lowered it (to 1.019 but insisted it wasn’t that low). Before I transported it, He took out all but one big rock, and brought the water level down pretty low of course. He put the smaller rocks in a bucket of water and I took it all home. When I got home, I put the water & rocks back. The big rock was exposed with no water for at least 20 mins. All the sand shifted, making it really cloudy.
So here’s my question: do you think the “maintenance” he was doing on my tank was starving out my urchin and clown, subjecting the entire tank to possible damage/risk, and even killed off all that good bacteria from the exposed rock, which in turn is why my nitrates spiked up to 80ppm within a couple weeks of me having it? Do you think from all the sand shifting and dead bacteria, it caused the cyano to form? I was being hard on myself thinking, “it didn’t look this bad when he had it, but then I bring it home and have all these issues.” I recently (today) realized everything I just mentioned, and how it could’ve caused this negative impact, so I really want to know if this would’ve happened regardless or if it’s from the transport, or what.

 

[JNalley]

Thank you so much I really appreciate your help a lot and everyone else’s too. I’ll def look into that media basket. I’m not sure if mine is stock or if the previous owner put in a different one. How could I find out if it’s a good quality basket?

It's not a good quality basket, I can tell by the way the leg is bowed in one of your pictures. The InTank basket will be nice and rigid and doesn't have gaps on the side so a maximized amount of water will flow through it.

As for the media… how do I know what chemipure or media to get? Is there something that works better than others? Or is there not really a difference?

Most people choose ChemiPure Blue, sometimes Elite, you can look up the difference on them as I can't recall right now.

Why are the bio balls in there if I replace them and what purpose do they even serve compared to the other media bags? Could my urchin have gotten sick from the old media?

The BioBalls are a place for beneficial bacteria to grow. But honestly, the plastic ones like that don't have much surface area. I tend to use the MarinePure 1.5" CerMedia Spheres, it has loads more surface area. Others don't like them because they claim that they leach Aluminum into the aquarium, though I've never seen concrete evidence of this, nor have I any idea why aluminum in trace amounts would be bad for the aquarium. I doubt your Urchin got sick from the BioMedia, it's more likely that it got sick from something else which could be filtration-related, but the world may never know.

Side question - the day I got my tank from my dad after he had it running w/ livestock for 6mo., he told me how to maintain it. He put only one type of food in the tank (for all animals/coral) and he only fed half of a Hikari frozen cube once weekly. He said water changes roughly every 2 weeks, and clean the filter pads every couple months or so. He never really mentioned testing the water, other than salinity, but never told me about topping off w/ RO/DI. When I got it, the salinity was 1.019 because he somehow managed to get my tank and his 32g up to 1.030 so he lowered it (to 1.019 but insisted it wasn’t that low). Before I transported it, He took out all but one big rock, and brought the water level down pretty low of course. He put the smaller rocks in a bucket of water and I took it all home. When I got home, I put the water & rocks back. The big rock was exposed with no water for at least 20 mins. All the sand shifted, making it really cloudy.
So here’s my question: do you think the “maintenance” he was doing on my tank was starving out my urchin and clown, subjecting the entire tank to possible damage/risk, and even killed off all that good bacteria from the exposed rock, which in turn is why my nitrates spiked up to 80ppm within a couple weeks of me having it? Do you think from all the sand shifting and dead bacteria, it caused the cyano to form? I was being hard on myself thinking, “it didn’t look this bad when he had it, but then I bring it home and have all these issues.” I recently (today) realized everything I just mentioned, and how it could’ve caused this negative impact, so I really want to know if this would’ve happened regardless or if it’s from the transport, or what.

It could be something along those lines. Honestly your entire filter area looks trashed, the filter floss at the top has algae growing on it which means it hasn't been changed in quite some time which could/would lead to high nitrates as filter floss is there to remove larger pieces of waste before they start breaking down. When they break down they create Ammonia which the bacteria converts into Nitrates. (I think I have that right). So if you let it sit there and break own, it will add a bunch of nitrates to the system over time. It's best to replace it every 1-2 days. Floss is reusable, and can be rinsed in RO/DI and reused. The Salinity thing is a problem. Pick up a good Salinity refractometer, make sure you calibrate it, and make sure to keep your aquarium around 35ppm (1.026 Specific Gravity).

 

[SaltyShel]

It's not a good quality basket, I can tell by the way the leg is bowed in one of your pictures. The InTank basket will be nice and rigid and doesn't have gaps on the side so a maximized amount of water will flow through it.



Most people choose ChemiPure Blue, sometimes Elite, you can look up the difference on them as I can't recall right now.



The BioBalls are a place for beneficial bacteria to grow. But honestly, the plastic ones like that don't have much surface area. I tend to use the MarinePure 1.5" CerMedia Spheres, it has loads more surface area. Others don't like them because they claim that they leach Aluminum into the aquarium, though I've never seen concrete evidence of this, nor have I any idea why aluminum in trace amounts would be bad for the aquarium. I doubt your Urchin got sick from the BioMedia, it's more likely that it got sick from something else which could be filtration-related, but the world may never know.


It could be something along those lines. Honestly your entire filter area looks trashed, the filter floss at the top has algae growing on it which means it hasn't been changed in quite some time which could/would lead to high nitrates as filter floss is there to remove larger pieces of waste before they start breaking down. When they break down they create Ammonia which the bacteria converts into Nitrates. (I think I have that right). So if you let it sit there and break own, it will add a bunch of nitrates to the system over time. It's best to replace it every 1-2 days. Floss is reusable, and can be rinsed in RO/DI and reused. The Salinity thing is a problem. Pick up a good Salinity refractometer, make sure you calibrate it, and make sure to keep your aquarium around 35ppm (1.026 Specific Gravity).

You’ve been so helpful, thank you so much. I’m really glad I joined this forum.

I will definitely get the new basket, especially since my tank is needing some revamping anyway lol. So I’m guessing the way my filter floss up top is positioned in the wrong place, none of the water is getting filtered? Which I kind of assumed anyway due to the way all water literally just glides right over the top of it and like a waterfall down into the return chamber. I guess that makes sense though, seeing as no matter what I do there’s always a bunch of debris floating around in the DT.

I’ll look into the different medias though and try to make a solid decision tonight so I can get this cleaned up. Definitely needs it. The chambers look a mess, but the whole tank is a mess too.

I do have a refractometer I got from BRS with the calibration fluid, that was one of the first things I bought lol. I found out quickly that a hydrometer wasn’t doing me or my tank any justice hahaha. But yeah thank you I’m gonna see if I can order some stuff here in a few and get started on fixing this poor tank up. I wonder if that lady sold it because she was like wow I messed up lol I will forever be convinced she scooped up some sand, water, rock, and whatever critters from the beach lol but I don’t think I’ll ever understand why my dad didn’t clean or replace any rock/sand/water though. He used to build saltwater tank pumps or do custom tanks, something like that, before I was born and when I was younger than 4. I just don’t get it, but I guess some things aren’t meant to be understood lol. Good thing I have this forum or I’d be so lost and stressed (more than I already am lol)