Frogspawn polyp bailout

bartizzle · Aug 10, 2020

Hi all,

Would someone please help me identify what could have possibly caused my Frogspawn to bailout. I thought that everything seemed to be pretty healthy but I'll include some pictures of the rest of the tank and corals for reference. One head ejected 8/7 and one last night/this am 8/10. I've been trying to get the Nitrate and Phosphate levels down in the tank and added Chemipure Blue 8/4 (listed below) per LFS recommendation. I'm open to suggestions and/or recommendations.

The corals and new cuc were added 7/12 and I only have 2 clowns and 1 chromis that have been around for 3+ months.

I'm running what I'd call moderate flow ~350gph return and a Tunze 6040 creating a small wave in a 32g Biocube. It's normally enough to push the fish around a bit. I added video to show the flow.

Also running ATO with RODI and weekly 5% AWC.

I run the lights like this:
LC3 Moonlight: 0900-2200
LC2 Sunrise/sunset: 1000-2000
LC1 Daylight: 1300-1700

Thanks!
Josh

Date	Temp F	SG	pH	dKH	(NO3) ppm	(PO4) ppm	(Ca) ppm	(Mg) ppm	(NH3) ppm	(NO2) ppm	Notes

7/12/2020	78	1.024	8	8.9	5	0.03	370	1200	0	0	Day after vacation, prior to adding frogspawn, GSP, zoas, duncans, 12 trochous, 6 nassarius, 12 red leg crabs
7/14/2020	78	1.024	8	8.9	5	0.03	370	1200	0	0	Tested and then dosed 10ml
7/14/2020	78		8	9.4			400			0	Tested 1h after dosing
7/16/2020	78		8	9.4	5	0.03	400	1150			Tested and then dosed 9ml + 5ml Mg
7/20/2020	78	1.024	8	9.8	5	0.03	380	1170		0	Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/21/2020	78		8	9.8			390	1180			Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca, 9 ALK, 9ml Mg
7/23/2020	78	1.024	8	10.2			395	1200			Tested and then dosed 18ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/28/2020	78	1.024	8	10.1	7		400	1200			No change
8/3/2020	78	1.024	8	10	10		400	1200			Changed filter floss and PolyPad
8/4/2020	78	1.024	8	9.9	10	0.25	405	1215			Dosed Ca, Mg before testing, added Chemi-Pure Blue 5.5
8/5/2020	78	1.024	8	10.1	7	0.1	410	1275			No change
8/7/2020	78	1.024	8	10.2	7	0.1	405	1180			Had a polyp eject. 10%WC, dosed 12ml Mg
8/10/2020	78	1.024	8	9.9	7	0.1	405	1200		0	Last Frogspawn polyps ejected.

El_Guapo13 · Aug 10, 2020

How strong is the flow in that area?
Did you dip it before you added it and checked it for pests?
I can't tell from the data if you tested NH3 and NO2, or if they always tested zero. But I would double check both.

Also, how long has it been since you setup and cycled the tank?

bartizzle · Aug 10, 2020

I would say that it had a moderate amount of flow around them. The entire tank has a pretty decent amount of flow on the outside of the rocks due to the pyramidish shape. The video shows the frogspawn pulsing if you were able to see it. That was after I dialed it back from a more steady/higher flow and switched to a lighter wave at about 25% capacity of the wave maker which is rated for 1190gph.

I've dipped everything in the tank except for CUC. I used CoralRX as directed with a turkey baster and studied it all very closely for pests. I had a fish with ick or a parasite a couple months ago and treated with Prazi-Pro and Metroplex/Focus (multiple major water changes and ran carbon ever since). I have Blue Life Safety Stop for any new fish, lesson learned.

I removed the last of the carbon (matrix carbon) when I switched over to Chemi-Pure Blue a few days ago. That's really the only thing that I've done differently other than varying the dosing of ALK, CAL, and MG and normally confirm the changes with multiple brands of tests.

I don't test NH3 or NO2 often, but I did check NO2 today and it's still at 0. NH3 is always 0 as well and there is also one of the Seachem hanging alerts hanging for when I go out of town.

Tank is just shy of 6M old and been pretty stable for about 5M.

Thanks!
Josh

El_Guapo13 said:
How strong is the flow in that area?
Did you dip it before you added it and checked it for pests?
I can't tell from the data if you tested NH3 and NO2, or if they always tested zero. But I would double check both.

Also, how long has it been since you setup and cycled the tank?

bartizzle · Aug 17, 2020

Any suggestions or thoughts, my water parameters are staying solid too.

El_Guapo13 · Aug 17, 2020

I mean, polyp bailout occurs as a last ditch effort for survival. For this reason, a coral has to be extremely stressed for it to conclude that this is its only way to survive. The main causes of stress for corals can be from either
A) bad water parameters (low/high salinity, high phosphate, high ammonia, etc.)
B) harrassment from livestock (fish or cuc nipping at corals)
C) coral warfare
D) pests (coral eating flatworms and Nudibranchs, etc.)
E) infections

If you are 100 percent sure your water parameters are stable and the readings are correct, then it has to be one of the other options.

From the pctures provided, I don't see any corals that are near enough to be attacking the Frogspawn, so we can rule out coral warfare. That leaves the possibility of it either being harrases by your fish and CUC, or pests, or it had a bacterial infection of some sort.

bartizzle · Aug 17, 2020

Thanks for the reply!

A) I'm pretty confident on most of my readings. I have multiple brands of tests and rotate through a lot of them.

Salinity: I use a calibrated Milwaukee Digital Refractometer and an ATO with RODI to keep the salinity in check.
Phosphate: I only have a Salifert test that consistently shows 0.03-0.1ppm (maybe I need another brand test).
NH3, NO2, NO3, pH, dKH: Salifert and Red Sea kits. (also an API for the basics and Hanna checker for dKH)
Ca/Mg: Salifert only.

B) I do occasionally see snails near and red leg crabs on/near a lot of my corals. They normally seem to clean up and move on though. My tank stays pretty clean, I actually worry that there is not enough for them to eat.

I feed my fish daily but pretty light with NLS Thera A+ small pellets. 2-3 times per week I'll toss in 3-4 (~1/4") small algae wafers for the CUC. On Wednesdays, I shave off a tiny amount of frozen Marine Cuisine and Cyclops. Sundays, I target feed the coral with 1/8t mixed in tank water with Reef Roids.

C) I agree, nothing else near.

D) I've not seen any evidence, but I'm no expert. I did dip and blast my coral with CoralRX as directed and nothing came off or appeared out of place. I've studied by corals with magnifying glasses and sit a foot in front of it with the kids pretty much daily when we feed. I've never seen an insect or bug looking critter on them. Not ruling this out but I've not seen anything obvious.

E) I've not really seen any brown jelly or anything that I can recall. The skeleton looked like others I've seen online. I'm honestly not 100% certain what else I'd be looking for other than what I can come up with on google.

I've not been able to get my pH over 8.0 or NO3 below 5-10ppm.
*The only thing that has really changed in my tank is that I pulled the Matrix Carbon and switched to Chemipure Blue and my parameters are staying solid as they did prior.

Do you think it's the crabs that caused it and if so, what should I do other than give some away?

I would really like to get frogspawn and hammers, the only shop within an hour of me only sells larger colonies which is cool because I get a more mature look but obviously for a price. I'm just a bit gun shy now because I lost a $40 piece and want to figure this out before I drop significantly more or settle for a smaller frag online for even more money. I transported all of my coral 14+ hours from Florida.

Thank you for any advice you can provide!