Experimenting with in-tank antibiotic treatments for Brown Jelly Disease

[Coralqueendom]

I think you need to dose 43ml. Based on your 1mg / ml concentrate using 2 500 mg tabs in 1000 ml. 90 gallons is 340L. 0.125 mg / L means need to dose about 42.5 mg to treat tank or 42.5 ml per your solution.

i have 500 mg pills and 100 gallons total water volume, if i disolve two pills in a liter of RODI what is my daily dose and do you do a water change between each treatment?

 

[KrisReef]

@Coralqueendom (somebody else check my math)

500mg + 500mg/1000 l = 1mg/ml
for 100 gallons ~=380 liters
380 liters x 0.125 mg/l =47.5 mg

47.5 mg x 1mg/ml = 47.5ml of your 1 liter soln with (2 x 500mg cipro)

Your 1 liter bottle can treat your tank about 20 + times.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I just got finished doing a 7’x3’x1.25’ frag tank for a bubble coral that had bjd and a few other lps starting to show signs of it. Plus I has some rfa and other nems from a tank buy out that were sickly.

I did 500mg tablet every day for 7 days. No ill affects on anything in the tank. Zoas, nems, sps, shrooms, basically everything is is in there. Macros in sump are fine and so is the pod population. Fish are also good. Bubble looks 100% better, minus the heads that died before treatment and the nems look great now.

I am so glad @AquaBiomics put this out there. I now know I am not alone and crazy, as I have been using cipro for corals for years. Just never in a full blown reef. (The frag tank is basically a reef at this point lol) Always in a qt previously, but it has saved a many of sps and lps I have taken in from neglected tanks or bad/late shipments at the lfs.

I noticed you did the treatment for 7 days straight. How did your dosage compare to Eli’s original dosage. I see you used a 500mg tab but how much volume of water did you have. It seems your dosage was stronger, more often and longer without ill effects.

I did my first dose last night and followed Eli’s original dosing instructions. I’m more trying this for the nems i have in the tank. I had a gig get a bacterial infection. I removed it and treated it with cipro in its own tank. The other nems though have been looking a bit sick too. Im hoping this helps as i would rather not remove all the others i have.

I was thinking a daily dose for the week may be better for the nems. Similiar to treating when in a HT tank but at a lower dose I guess. Any thoughts?

 

[beesnreefs]

Thanks for this great writeup, @AquaBiomics - trying this as well. Just put first dose in the tank.

I pulled about 100 mL of tank water before dosing in case you still want to run before and after tests. Sample is in the freezer. Let me know.

Fingers crossed this works! Lost 5 torches in the last month. So heartbreaking.

 

[ADAM]

@BobbyCline @MERKEY

 

[MERKEY]

@BobbyCline @MERKEY

I've been quietly following lol

 

[BobbyCline]

@BobbyCline @MERKEY

Been there...done this...extreme rates

 

[swee10]

Is there a way to order Cipro without needing a script from a vet.

It may be available other places but here is one.

ciprofloxacin - Free shipping | Chewy

ciprofloxacin - Shop Chewy for low prices and the best products! We carry a large selection and the top brands like Ciprofloxacin, Midland Vet Services, and more. Find everything you need in one place. FREE shipping on orders $49+ and the BEST customer service!

www.chewy.com

 

[KrisReef]

This seems to have solved my jelliless polyp dissolution. I thought my one of my fish had gone rogue and was eating lps. They did not show classic brown jelly at any time. The polyps appeared to be being eaten with chunks of flesh falling off.

I ordered from CHEWY and the 30 x 500 mg arrived in two days. Followed the original 0.125mg/liter and treated ever other day at night the entire display system. No losses except for the disease symptoms. No more torch dissolving.

Thanks

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I finished a full week treatment this last week. I wanted to try this for my anemones as one had a bacterial infection that was removed but the others were looking a bit sick as well. Taking them all out to treat would be a pain and i thought i would give this a try first.

I decided to treat everyday for a week at the original prescribed amount. The first two days i treated at lights out but the last 5 days i had to treat a couple hours before lights out because of my schedule. Not sure if this affected much.

I removed carbon and GFO. I ran my skimmer but removed the collection cup. I also treated my other two systems in this way because I’m sharing tools and in an out of the tanks so water ends up getting mixed. Thought it the best way to be complete.

I did not notice any negative effect on the living things. Fish good, coral good, inverts good, macros good, and pods good. I did notice a rise in PO4. I did loose a couple different heads from different coral but those were already in bad shape and don’t believe the treatment caused this but only confirmed there sickness.

I did notice one of my BTAs that spent most days looking deflated now stays inflated durning the day. The others, two gigs and a mag I’m not quite sure about yet. Part of me thinks it was helpful but the other isn’t totally sure yet. I’m still monitoring everything.

Not sure whats up with @AquaBiomics hope things are okay. Wanted to try the bacteria testing but no response here or from his website.

@Eagle_Steve still curious about my questions above on your quoted post?

I think this is a useful tool and hope others report their findings here. The bacteria side of things is super interesting and we need more testing done.

 

[beesnreefs]

I finished a full week treatment this last week. I wanted to try this for my anemones as one had a bacterial infection that was removed but the others were looking a bit sick as well. Taking them all out to treat would be a pain and i thought i would give this a try first.

I decided to treat everyday for a week at the original prescribed amount. The first two days i treated at lights out but the last 5 days i had to treat a couple hours before lights out because of my schedule. Not sure if this affected much.

I removed carbon and GFO. I ran my skimmer but removed the collection cup. I also treated my other two systems in this way because I’m sharing tools and in an out of the tanks so water ends up getting mixed. Thought it the best way to be complete.

I did not notice any negative effect on the living things. Fish good, coral good, inverts good, macros good, and pods good. I did notice a rise in PO4. I did loose a couple different heads from different coral but those were already in bad shape and don’t believe the treatment caused this but only confirmed there sickness.

I did notice one of my BTAs that spent most days looking deflated now stays inflated durning the day. The others, two gigs and a mag I’m not quite sure about yet. Part of me thinks it was helpful but the other isn’t totally sure yet. I’m still monitoring everything.

Not sure whats up with @AquaBiomics hope things are okay. Wanted to try the bacteria testing but no response here or from his website.

@Eagle_Steve still curious about my questions above on your quoted post?

I think this is a useful tool and hope others report their findings here. The bacteria side of things is super interesting and we need more testing done.

Similar experience to what you and @KrisReef had.

Was able to get a vet friend to call in a script for ciprofloxacin for me on Sunday, May 2nd. I had ordered from Chewy but was worried waiting 2 more days would have been disasterous. Had already lost 4 torches and two were starting to go to pot (a single head green and a 3-head indo gold variant).

Also reached out to @AquaBiomics about the pre-and-post testing but have not heard back yet. Still, I took about 75 mL of water out of the display and tossed in the freezer before applying the first treatment.

Other than a UV, I do not run any filtration beyond the biological - no skimmer, carbon, etc.

Calculated water volume at 60 gallons (approximately) so, making a 10 mg/mL and using his dosing of 0.125 mg/L I did 28 mg (2.8 mL) of cipro directly into the display mid-day on May 2nd. I did not turn lights off or do anything different.

Monday the green torch was about 50% melted away - no sign of "jelly", just literally melting away from the skeleton. When I started treatment on Sunday it was probably 20% melted away so I did not expect it to survive anyway.

The 3-head indo, it's head in the front was about 50% melted away when I started treatment on May 2nd. The next day it had totally bailed.

However.....

No other euphyllia showed any signs of distress on Monday. And, the other two heads on the indo were inflated more than they had been in a week.

I did a second treatment on Tuesday and a third treatment on Thursday. Then, on Saturday, just before my weekly water change I pulled another 75 mL of water from the display and tossed it in the freezer.

If Eli from AquaBiomics does end up wanting to do a pre-and-post test on my system I've got the samples frozen and ready to go!

My final takeaways:

• It's been 4 days since the final treatment and 1 week since the last torch issue. Prior to starting cipro, I was seeing torches begin to melt every 2-3 days. Sitting here typing this and looking at my tank, all my euphyllia have never looked better! I am certain the treatment worked.
• I know Eli titled this thread as being about "Brown Jelly" but, like others, I never saw jelly. Rather, one day the torches looked great, the next day they were super retracted, deflated, and just started "melting away" within about 24 hours. This seems to have stopped.
• No other corals or inverts seemed to have suffered from this. All my snails, starfish, crabs, corals, even berghia nudibranchs all seem absolutely fine.
• All fish seemed unaffected as well.

In the end, I lost some of my most favorite corals but, believing this treatment worked, have every intention of replacing them.

My wife suggested I use the "extra" cipro as a dip for new euhphyllia before adding them to the tank. I think I'm going to do that!

 

[Coralqueendom]

@Coralqueendom (somebody else check my math)

500mg + 500mg/1000 l = 1mg/ml
for 100 gallons ~=380 liters
380 liters x 0.125 mg/l =47.5 mg

47.5 mg x 1mg/ml = 47.5ml of your 1 liter soln with (2 x 500mg cipro)

Your 1 liter bottle can treat your tank about 20 + times.

and then how soon after to do a water change?

 

[Coralqueendom]

@Coralqueendom (somebody else check my math)

500mg + 500mg/1000 l = 1mg/ml
for 100 gallons ~=380 liters
380 liters x 0.125 mg/l =47.5 mg

47.5 mg x 1mg/ml = 47.5ml of your 1 liter soln with (2 x 500mg cipro)

Your 1 liter bottle can treat your tank about 20 + times.

thank you for your reply!!

 

[MrKlumZ]

I had my entire collection of high end torches and hammers wiped out last year including some of my lps as well. Wish this information was available at that time. Searched everywhere and could not find a solution. I dipped all my euphyllia daily in a peroxide dip and iodine, chemiclean, and amino acid dip. It prolonged the life of my euphyllia but still ended in mass death.

thank you so much for this write up. Definitely good to know a way to combat this disease. Almost dropped out of this hobby last year but decided to do a reboot again this year.

 

[KrisReef]

thank you for your reply!!

You are welcome.

I never did any water changes following treatment(s). This dose is so low, and from my understanding the antibiotic degrades very quickly in light, so I never saw any reason to change water as a result of chemicals added during these treatments.

I am planning a 25% change, just because. I don't do regular water changes but I want to vacuum up the areas where dirt is accumulating over the past year or two in my system.

 

[LRT]

Similar experience to what you and @KrisReef had.

Was able to get a vet friend to call in a script for ciprofloxacin for me on Sunday, May 2nd. I had ordered from Chewy but was worried waiting 2 more days would have been disasterous. Had already lost 4 torches and two were starting to go to pot (a single head green and a 3-head indo gold variant).

Also reached out to @AquaBiomics about the pre-and-post testing but have not heard back yet. Still, I took about 75 mL of water out of the display and tossed in the freezer before applying the first treatment.

Other than a UV, I do not run any filtration beyond the biological - no skimmer, carbon, etc.

Calculated water volume at 60 gallons (approximately) so, making a 10 mg/mL and using his dosing of 0.125 mg/L I did 28 mg (2.8 mL) of cipro directly into the display mid-day on May 2nd. I did not turn lights off or do anything different.

Monday the green torch was about 50% melted away - no sign of "jelly", just literally melting away from the skeleton. When I started treatment on Sunday it was probably 20% melted away so I did not expect it to survive anyway.

The 3-head indo, it's head in the front was about 50% melted away when I started treatment on May 2nd. The next day it had totally bailed.

However.....

No other euphyllia showed any signs of distress on Monday. And, the other two heads on the indo were inflated more than they had been in a week.

I did a second treatment on Tuesday and a third treatment on Thursday. Then, on Saturday, just before my weekly water change I pulled another 75 mL of water from the display and tossed it in the freezer.

If Eli from AquaBiomics does end up wanting to do a pre-and-post test on my system I've got the samples frozen and ready to go!

My final takeaways:

• It's been 4 days since the final treatment and 1 week since the last torch issue. Prior to starting cipro, I was seeing torches begin to melt every 2-3 days. Sitting here typing this and looking at my tank, all my euphyllia have never looked better! I am certain the treatment worked.
• I know Eli titled this thread as being about "Brown Jelly" but, like others, I never saw jelly. Rather, one day the torches looked great, the next day they were super retracted, deflated, and just started "melting away" within about 24 hours. This seems to have stopped.
• No other corals or inverts seemed to have suffered from this. All my snails, starfish, crabs, corals, even berghia nudibranchs all seem absolutely fine.
• All fish seemed unaffected as well.

In the end, I lost some of my most favorite corals but, believing this treatment worked, have every intention of replacing them.

My wife suggested I use the "extra" cipro as a dip for new euhphyllia before adding them to the tank. I think I'm going to do that!

Hopefully @AquaBiomics gets alot more data in and is able to identify more pathogens.
Cipro is a wide treating antibiotic and not only successful with BJD.
I had a mushroom with full on tissue necrosis. Falling apart just handling it.
Gave a few 2 hr dips at 125mg/half gallon system every other night and mushroom came back and never better really.

 

[135zman]

Could someone confirm my dosage for a 160 total gallon system? I’m seeing different dissolving techniques to get the concentrated solution with some weaker than others. Based on p1 original post of dissolving one 500 mg pill in 50ml of RODI, is my dosage 7.57ml?

160 gallons = 606 liters x .125 medication rate = 75.75 ml / 10 = 7.57ml dose amount

Thank you for checking by math since the original post was based on only dissolving one 500 mg pill in 50ml water creating 10mg/ml concentrate versus much more diluted medicated solution of two 500 mg in 1 liter of water (1000ml) creating 1mg/ml concentrate.

 

[beesnreefs]

Could someone confirm my dosage for a 160 total gallon system? I’m seeing different dissolving techniques to get the concentrated solution with some weaker than others. Based on p1 original post of dissolving one 500 mg pill in 50ml of RODI, is my dosage 7.57ml?

160 gallons = 606 liters x .125 medication rate = 75.75 ml / 10 = 7.57ml dose amount

Thank you for checking by math since the original post was based on only dissolving one 500 mg pill in 50ml water creating 10mg/ml concentrate versus much more diluted medicated solution of two 500 mg in 1 liter of water (1000ml) creating 1mg/ml concentrate.

Your math looks right to me!

 

[reefinlikeAgirl]

I’m having an outback of bjd right now. Ciprofloxacin will be here tomorrow morning and I’m dosing the tank! I’ll take a sample in the morning. Where do I send it?

 

[mfollen]

Fantastic read.

Has anyone used both Chemiclean and cipro at the same time? If so, any negative effects?