DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Jon_W79]

I’m curious if one was running a large algae farm (I refuse to call it a refugium) on a reverse lighting schedule where it’s lit all night, and one was dosing ammonium only at night……would that negate or reduce the desired effect?

I think that it will not negate it that much if you dose down stream from the algae farm and let the ammonia go through the reef tank first(it will partly depend on the water turnover).

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I think that it will not negate it that much if you dose down stream from the algae farm and let the ammonia go through the reef tank first(it will partly depend on the water turnover).

I don’t run an algae farm but I was curious as my understanding was that algae would consume ammonia. Article was interesting (and almost as old as I), light cycle had a large effect on outcome.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t run an algae farm but I was curious as my understanding was that algae would consume ammonia. Article was interesting (and almost as old as I), light cycle had a large effect on outcome.

I expect all photosynthetic organisms can consume ammonia.

 

[brandon429]

Is it true they would only do so during the light phase, o2 generation phase vs the night phase, co2 net emission?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it true they would only do so during the light phase, o2 generation phase vs the night phase, co2 net emission?

I don’t know, as I’ve not seen any data, but I don’t have a reason to assume ammonia uptake happens only during the day.

 

[drawman]

Started my first dose this afternoon of ammonium chloride. I have a few issues going on with the tank so I'm taking it slow and will report findings with a grain of salt.

 

[Jon_W79]

Is it true they would only do so during the light phase, o2 generation phase vs the night phase, co2 net emission?

I found a study that says that an Ulva sp can remove ammonia during no light. I bet that other algae can do it too.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274426034_Ammonia-Nitrogen_Uptake_by_Seaweed_for_Water_Quality_Control_in_Intensive_Mariculture_Ponds#:~:text=The%20algae%20took%20up%20ammonia-nitrogen%20even%20under%20no,an%20increasing%20ammonia-nitrogen%20content%20in%20the%20alga%20cell.

 

[jda]

With corals, they appear to gather for their symbionts all the time, not just when lights are on - anything, not just ammonia. Carbonate and calcium are uptaken at night as well.

This paper on A. Palmata shows that ammonia uptake was 24 hours, but not always optimal at night. A. Palmata is probably not a great source by it's self for translation to aquarium study, but I combined with many other things, probably safe to assume that corals do look for nitrogen 24/7.

https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/68/m068p065.pdf

 

[StevePhx]

Discussing the nitrogen cycle with Dr. Tim and one of the conversation was how nitrifying bacteria consume CO2 as part of the process. The discussion led to could dosing ammonia be a method of of helping reduce CO2 levels in the aquarium using bacteria.

Have you been able to observe a reduction in CO2 or the increase in tank pH?

 

[brandon429]

They consume o2, they’re aerobic, it’s an aerobic process/

where did consuming co2 come into play, he said that?

 

[brandon429]

some alkalinity is consumed in the process.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Discussing the nitrogen cycle with Dr. Tim and one of the conversation was how nitrifying bacteria consume CO2 as part of the process. The discussion led to could dosing ammonia be a method of of helping reduce CO2 levels in the aquarium using bacteria.

Have you been able to observe a reduction in CO2 or the increase in tank pH?

I’m on week five of dosing ammonia to my system now and have observed zero change in ph on weeks one through four. Week five is an outlier as I had my parents three dogs all week while they were on vacation and my ph declined slightly day over day. On day three I started opening the doors and running the bathroom fans for fifteen minutes at 5 am every morning so I could bring that fresh, crisp and refreshing ninety degree morning air in! Ha. Definitely no increases in ph though…. Just my personal observation

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Discussing the nitrogen cycle with Dr. Tim and one of the conversation was how nitrifying bacteria consume CO2 as part of the process. The discussion led to could dosing ammonia be a method of of helping reduce CO2 levels in the aquarium using bacteria.

Have you been able to observe a reduction in CO2 or the increase in tank pH?

The process of nitrification lowers pH and depletes alkalinity.

 

[Jon_W79]

With corals, they appear to gather for their symbionts all the time, not just when lights are on - anything, not just ammonia. Carbonate and calcium are uptaken at night as well.

This paper on A. Palmata shows that ammonia uptake was 24 hours, but not always optimal at night. A. Palmata is probably not a great source by it's self for translation to aquarium study, but I combined with many other things, probably safe to assume that corals do look for nitrogen 24/7.

https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/68/m068p065.pdf

Awesome paper. It appears (from the paper) that if symbiotic corals don’t get an ideal amount of ammonia and/or nitrogen from food then they may try to get ammonia from the water. I think that is at least partly why it is not always "optimal" to get ammonia from the water for Palmata.

I think that acropora corals (and some other corals) are a lot more dependent on ammonia in a reef tank than in the ocean, because I believe there is a lot less available food in the water in a reef tank for these corals than in the ocean.

I wonder if acropora in the ocean consume more nitrogen per hour in the day or night or if it is about the same. From data I saw from an ammonia monitor on a reef tank, the average ammonia level per hour at night was about half what the average was during the day.

 

[brandon429]

If that data came from a non seneye study, doubt it

Seneyes show no diurnal change in avg nh3 rates in reef tanks

 

[Jon_W79]

If that data came from a non seneye study, doubt it

Seneyes show no diurnal change in avg nh3 rates in reef tanks

It was a seyneye.

 

[brandon429]

Do you have the log was wanting to see how far off it is from the others on the site, link that to their display stocking rate and degree of live rock used

 

[MoshJosh]

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate.

For this reason, I thought it would be useful to provide some DIY directions for ammonia dosing.

There are many materials that could be used for ammonia dosing, including some household ammonia solutions, but in order to give better assurance of purity, I'm electing the show directions using food grade ammonium chloride and food grade ammonium bicarbonate.

Ammonium Chloride
Ammonium chloride, NH4Cl is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus hydrochloric acid (HCl). The reason I mention that fact relates to the impact on alkalinity. Dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. I'm ignoring the fact that if it is converted into nitrate, alk is lost, because if that nitrate is later used, all the alk lost comes back.

However, the HCl that is effectively dosed will steadily deplete alk. Adding the equivalent of 50 mg/L nitrate (0.81 meq/L; coming from NH4Cl) will have depleted 0.81 meq/l (2.3 dKH) of alkalinity. That may need to be made up for in some other fashion, such as adding more alkalintiy supplement.

High quality ammonium chloride is readily available and inexpensive. Loudwolf is one brand, but there are many. Aim for food grade or ACS reagent grade. Amazon carries many Loudwolf is $7 for 4 ounces, which contains 38,000 mg of ammonium, and is equivalent to 131,000 mg of nitrate, enough to raise 100 L of aquarium water to 5 ppm nitrate about 262 times. So cost is not significant.

Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium bicarbonate, also known as baking ammonia, NH4 HCO3 is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus CO2 and water.

As mentioned above, dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. The CO2 and water also do not impact alkalinity. Thus, ammonium bicarbonate is a net alk neutral way to dose ammonia.

High quality ammonium bicarbonate is also available from Amazon as baking ammonia. It is readily available and inexpensive. One brand sells 11 ounces for $15, so it's cost is similar to the Loudwolf ammonium chloride per unit of ammonia added (one needs to use more of the ammonium bicarbonate than the ammonium chloride, evening out the cost).

Stock Solution
Using either of these materials, we will make a stock solution for dosing. Keep it closed up as it will smell of ammonia and slowly loses ammonia to the air. Ammonium bicarbonate will have a higher pH, smell more, and lose ammonia to the air faster.

13.5 grams of ammonium chloride (about 3 - 4.6 teaspoons, varies by brand) in 1 L RO/DI water.
OR
20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate (about 4 and 3/4 teaspoons) in 1 L RO/DI water.

Both solutions contain approximately 4300 mg/L (4.3 mg/mL) ammonia, equivalent to 15,700 mg/l nitrate.

Dosing

Don't be overly afraid of dosing ammonia due to toxicity, but one cannot dose substantial amounts all at once. IMO, it is safe to add 0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate) at once to any reef tank, and one can likely add more, if it mixes in well. Don't dose it right onto a fish, but dosing 2-3x that amount at once is also likely OK. Of course, using a dosing pump to spread out the dosing is fine and may be preferable, but be sure to guard against dosing pumps out of control (e.g., stuck on). Stock solutions can be increased or decreased in potency to match pumping needs. The ammonia could also be put into an ato since exact daily dosing is not required.

To add 0.1 mg/L ammonia to an aquarium, you would need to add 2.3 mL of either stock solution to a 100 L (26 gallon) aquarium. You may need to add this amount multiply times per day to dose enough.

I'd add it to a sump, if possible, to dilute it well before it gets to the main tank. Most folks dosing ammonia wouldn't also be using media intended to push the nitrogen cycle in various ways, but if you do, dose downstream of that media.

Of course, if anything seems to react badly the first time or two that you dose, stop dosing, double check the amounts, and perhaps come back to this thread for further discussion of what might be happening.

This article has a lot more on ammonia in reef aquaria, although some parts of it may not be correct (such as the utility of products such as Prime):

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Happy Reefing!

but can I add it to my kalk ATO solution?

 

[Jon_W79]

Do you have the log was wanting to see how far off it is from the others on the site, link that to their display stocking rate and degree of live rock used

I'm not sure if I do. This is based on memory and a post I made a while ago. I looked for the info the other day, but I think I didn’t find the exact data I saw. It may be from jason2459 from I think around 2017 or it may be CoralClasher, or maybe someone else.

 

[jda]

Awesome paper. It appears (from the paper) that if symbiotic corals don’t get an ideal amount of ammonia and/or nitrogen from food then they may try to get ammonia from the water. I think that is at least partly why it is not always "optimal" to get ammonia from the water for Palmata.

I think that acropora corals (and some other corals) are a lot more dependent on ammonia in a reef tank than in the ocean, because I believe there is a lot less available food in the water in a reef tank for these corals than in the ocean.

I wonder if acropora in the ocean consume more nitrogen per hour in the day or night or if it is about the same. From data I saw from an ammonia monitor on a reef tank, the average ammonia level per hour at night was about half what the average was during the day.

I caution people not to read too much into studies that just have one coral. They are not nothing, but also might not say much. A. Palmata might be one of the worst since it appears headed for extinction even before humans interfered with where it lives - this coral is not great at living in our current world. There are other studies out there in the GBR and other wild places that also indicated that corals will gather building blocks and energy 24/7. This was just one that I found quickly since I do not link studies much and mostly just read them.

Most other studies show that corals are excellently efficient at gathering nitrogen from ammonia and it is there largest, and preferred source.

In any case, I think that most over estimate how much food that acropora can catch in the wild. The biologist in the Coral Sea that we talked to said that nearly no plankton comes to the areas where the acropora grows, when it does, it is seasonal and there is no evidence that they can catch or digest anything caught in polyps - LPS and softies are different and appear to be able to digest things of the right size. Bacteria and small things that stick in the slime coat appear the other other sources of energy and building blocks other than the sun, sulphur in the water, nitrogen in ammonia, meta and poly phosphates, carbon in bicarbonate. You see one study that says that corals eat a lot and another that they do not eat a lot.

These corals do not need a lot of nitrogen or phosphorous. Sulphur is abundant in the ocean and so are sugars from light. N and P are only really needed to grow and form new organic tissue, not for daily function. Most hobbyists think that nitrate, or nitrogen is fuel or food or something and that more of a surplus is better.

As for timing, the bottom line is: who cares. If you want stuff to be healthy then provide it all of the time and let the corals get what they want, when they want. Only humans are dumb enough to try and outsmart nature and think that they can do it better. Feeding the fish and stuff before lights out might let them process and dump waste into the night for the corals to eat... crabs, shrimp and stuff can follow a bit later.