DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[ncjeepguy75]

Was thinking the same. Were you previously dosing nitrates by chance?

Was thinking the same. Were you previously dosing nitrates by chance?

I was previously dosing nitrates.

I am thinking one of two things or even a combination of both…
-maxima clam always sucks up nitrates and phosphates so just par for the course that nitrates are dropping
-by dosing ammonia, it has jump started coral growth and they are using the ammonia and some of the existing nitrates (since alkalinity is also being decreased)

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Well I’ve finally weened off sodium nitrate completely. It hasn’t required as much ammonium chloride as I was starting to think either. I have no clue why my phosphates dropped so drastically or why my alk started rising during my first couple days….. I can’t make heads or tails of it. About a month in and alk consumption is slightly higher now that I’m only dosing ac than it was before I started and was dosing sn. So that’s most likely good news. My phosphate (sodium phosphate) dosing has decreased a bit since I started. I don’t know if things just aren’t taking it up as they have over the last couple years, if the process itself is different between sodium nitrate/sodium phosphate and ammonium chloride/sodium phosphate, just an anomaly in my tank, or I just happened to hit critical mass with binding to rock (the exact week I started ammonia and three plus years of dosing phosphate…hmmm, that would be my luck for sure!) but I’m down to half of my normal dose now.

 

[drawman]

Just had my bottle of ammonium chloride arrive from loudwolf. I think I'll start dosing tomorrow but this week phosphate has bottomed out on me so I have. few things going on. There is good algae growth in the tank so it's not a true bottoming out in my mind but I do want to get a measurable number above 0.

 

[ncjeepguy75]

So here is where I stand…
Dosing 3ml ammonia in my tank.
Nitrates are still dropping (now 6ppm) as is phosphate (.03 ppm).
Alkalinity is holding steady for the time being at 10.4 dkh.

I am wondering at this point do I slightly increase ammonia dose? If so to what?

I am perplexed as dosing ammonia should in theory increase nitrate over time but just the opposite is happening.

Thoughts, speculations, suggestions?
@drawman @A_Blind_Reefer @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

So here is where I stand…
Dosing 3ml ammonia in my tank.
Nitrates are still dropping (now 6ppm) as is phosphate (.03 ppm).
Alkalinity is holding steady for the time being at 10.4 dkh.

I am wondering at this point do I slightly increase ammonia dose? If so to what?

I am perplexed as dosing ammonia should in theory increase nitrate over time but just the opposite is happening.

Thoughts, speculations, suggestions?
@drawman @A_Blind_Reefer @Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy, obviously, is the expert here. I would ask you for more detail. When you say you’re dosing 3 ml, what does that equate to as far as ppm to tank volume? For example, I started at 0.1 ppm twice daily while continuing to dose sodium nitrate. I’m now completely off sodium nitrate and am dosing about 0.3 ppm total daily. Mixed per Randy’s directions, I’m currently at 45 ml, total daily on a 200 gallon system (realistically 160 accounting for rock displacement). Just as an example. My math could be wrong, and I’m only around four weeks into this. I have been dosing nitrate and phosphate since I started this tank several years ago. I fell into the bare bottom, dry rock, trap. I’ve had a mixed reef since the 90’s and never, had a rough start like this.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am wondering at this point do I slightly increase ammonia dose? If so to what?

Experiment time. There's no roadmap.

Ideally, however, nitrate should not be needed if enough ammonium is dosed.

 

[drawman]

So here is where I stand…
Dosing 3ml ammonia in my tank.
Nitrates are still dropping (now 6ppm) as is phosphate (.03 ppm).
Alkalinity is holding steady for the time being at 10.4 dkh.

I am wondering at this point do I slightly increase ammonia dose? If so to what?

I am perplexed as dosing ammonia should in theory increase nitrate over time but just the opposite is happening.

Thoughts, speculations, suggestions?
@drawman @A_Blind_Reefer @Randy Holmes-Farley

Do you have much algae or a good supply of coral?

I would be concerned about phosphate bottoming out and would start dosing that (or feeding phosphate heavy food).

I think if coral are responding well you could slowly ramp up the dosing (while keeping a close eye on phosphate). On paper it sounds like things are responding well and taking up the ammonia before it has a chance to convert to nitrate or you have denitrification going on (do you have a deep sand bed or any bio media?).

 

[ncjeepguy75]

Randy, obviously, is the expert here. I would ask you for more detail. When you say you’re dosing 3 ml, what does that equate to as far as ppm to tank volume? For example, I started at 0.1 ppm twice daily while continuing to dose sodium nitrate. I’m now completely off sodium nitrate and am dosing about 0.3 ppm total daily. Mixed per Randy’s directions, I’m currently at 45 ml, total daily on a 200 gallon system (realistically 160 accounting for rock displacement). Just as an example. My math could be wrong, and I’m only around four weeks into this. I have been dosing nitrate and phosphate since I started this tank several years ago. I fell into the bare bottom, dry rock, trap. I’ve had a mixed reef since the 90’s and never, had a rough start like this.

I’m dosing 3 ml of a 3% ammonia hydroxide solution in about 125 gallons ( guessing due to rock displacement and sump addition)

 

[ncjeepguy75]

Do you have much algae or a good supply of coral?

I would be concerned about phosphate bottoming out and would start dosing that (or feeding phosphate heavy food).

I think if coral are responding well you could slowly ramp up the dosing (while keeping a close eye on phosphate). On paper it sounds like things are responding well and taking up the ammonia before it has a chance to convert to nitrate or you have denitrification going on (do you have a deep sand bed or any bio media?).

Only have one little tuft of green hair algae and no macro in sump since my nutrients are already fairly low.

Coral…2 Goni, Duncan, 2 large frogspawn, torch, yellow and purple pocillopora, huge toadstool leather with a bunch of frags, green star, dragon soul favia, 2 trumpet coral, mushrooms, psamsocora, frammer, Kenya tree, finger leather, tons of generic paly polyps,blasto, pulsing Xenia. So I don’t think there is a lack of coral.

Maxima clam.

No deep sand bed and no filter media.

 

[ncjeepguy75]

Experiment time. There's no roadmap.

Ideally, however, nitrate should not be needed if enough ammonium is dosed.

@Randy Holmes-Farley experimenting we will go! And of course document every step of the way!

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I’m dosing 3 ml of a 3% ammonia hydroxide solution in about 125 gallons ( guessing due to rock displacement and sump addition)

Sounds like you can bump it up quite a bit, but follow Randy’s advice on maximum recommended dosing. I ended up putting it in on a doser for ease, I only have 1 and 10 ml automatic pipettes to measure with my vision limitations so it can be a pain.

 

[Jon_W79]

So here is where I stand…
Dosing 3ml ammonia in my tank.
Nitrates are still dropping (now 6ppm) as is phosphate (.03 ppm).
Alkalinity is holding steady for the time being at 10.4 dkh.

I am wondering at this point do I slightly increase ammonia dose? If so to what?

I am perplexed as dosing ammonia should in theory increase nitrate over time but just the opposite is happening.

Thoughts, speculations, suggestions?
@drawman @A_Blind_Reefer @Randy Holmes-Farley

I think that you shouldn't increase the dose of ammonia during the day for now and you should also start dosing ammonia at night, because I believe a lot more of the ammonia will be converted to nitrate at night instead of being used used by algae and/or corals. I think this can help prevent nitrate and phosphate from getting too low and/or help keep them more stable.

If there is no photosynthesis when dosing, ammonia dosing may be very similar to nitrate dosing(with the exception of nitrifying bacteria).

 

[keatonmjenkins]

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate.

For this reason, I thought it would be useful to provide some DIY directions for ammonia dosing.

There are many materials that could be used for ammonia dosing, including some household ammonia solutions, but in order to give better assurance of purity, I'm electing the show directions using food grade ammonium chloride and food grade ammonium bicarbonate.

Ammonium Chloride
Ammonium chloride, NH4Cl is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus hydrochloric acid (HCl). The reason I mention that fact relates to the impact on alkalinity. Dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. I'm ignoring the fact that if it is converted into nitrate, alk is lost, because if that nitrate is later used, all the alk lost comes back.

However, the HCl that is effectively dosed will steadily deplete alk. Adding the equivalent of 50 mg/L nitrate (0.81 meq/L; coming from NH4Cl) will have depleted 0.81 meq/l (2.3 dKH) of alkalinity. That may need to be made up for in some other fashion, such as adding more alkalintiy supplement.

High quality ammonium chloride is readily available and inexpensive. Loudwolf is one brand, but there are many. Aim for food grade or ACS reagent grade. Amazon carries many Loudwolf is $7 for 4 ounces, which contains 38,000 mg of ammonium, and is equivalent to 131,000 mg of nitrate, enough to raise 100 L of aquarium water to 5 ppm nitrate about 262 times. So cost is not significant.

Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium bicarbonate, also known as baking ammonia, NH4 HCO3 is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus CO2 and water.

As mentioned above, dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. The CO2 and water also do not impact alkalinity. Thus, ammonium bicarbonate is a net alk neutral way to dose ammonia.

High quality ammonium bicarbonate is also available from Amazon as baking ammonia. It is readily available and inexpensive. One brand sells 11 ounces for $15, so it's cost is similar to the Loudwolf ammonium chloride per unit of ammonia added (one needs to use more of the ammonium bicarbonate than the ammonium chloride, evening out the cost).

Stock Solution
Using either of these materials, we will make a stock solution for dosing. Keep it closed up as it will smell of ammonia and slowly loses ammonia to the air. Ammonium bicarbonate will have a higher pH, smell more, and lose ammonia to the air faster.

13.5 grams of ammonium chloride (about 3 - 4.6 teaspoons, varies by brand) in 1 L RO/DI water.
OR
20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate (about 4 and 3/4 teaspoons) in 1 L RO/DI water.

Both solutions contain approximately 4300 mg/L (4.3 mg/mL) ammonia, equivalent to 15,700 mg/l nitrate.

Dosing

Don't be overly afraid of dosing ammonia due to toxicity, but one cannot dose substantial amounts all at once. IMO, it is safe to add 0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate) at once to any reef tank, and one can likely add more, if it mixes in well. Don't dose it right onto a fish, but dosing 2-3x that amount at once is also likely OK. Of course, using a dosing pump to spread out the dosing is fine and may be preferable, but be sure to guard against dosing pumps out of control (e.g., stuck on). Stock solutions can be increased or decreased in potency to match pumping needs. The ammonia could also be put into an ato since exact daily dosing is not required.

To add 0.1 mg/L ammonia to an aquarium, you would need to add 2.3 mL of either stock solution to a 100 L (26 gallon) aquarium. You may need to add this amount multiply times per day to dose enough.

I'd add it to a sump, if possible, to dilute it well before it gets to the main tank. Most folks dosing ammonia wouldn't also be using media intended to push the nitrogen cycle in various ways, but if you do, dose downstream of that media.

Of course, if anything seems to react badly the first time or two that you dose, stop dosing, double check the amounts, and perhaps come back to this thread for further discussion of what might be happening.

This article has a lot more on ammonia in reef aquaria, although some parts of it may not be correct (such as the utility of products such as Prime):

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Happy Reefing!

If you can’t afford it you can always just pee in your tank. Same same but different.

 

[Jon_W79]

I think that you shouldn't increase the dose of ammonia during the day for now and you should also start dosing ammonia at night, because I believe a lot more of the ammonia will be converted to nitrate at night instead of being used used by algae and/or corals. I think this can help prevent nitrate and phosphate from getting too low and/or help keep them more stable.

If there is no photosynthesis when dosing, ammonia dosing may be very similar to nitrate dosing(with the exception of nitrifying bacteria).

If it is true that corals don’t use much ammonia at night, then to some extent I think that dosing ammonia during the day is like hitting the gas pedal for coral growth and that dosing at night can put the brake on coral growth if the extra nitrifying bacteria that are created make a net reduction of ammonia for corals during the day(that reduces growth). I guess you should decide what may be better at this point.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think that you shouldn't increase the dose of ammonia during the day for now and you should also start dosing ammonia at night, because I believe a lot more of the ammonia will be converted to nitrate at night instead of being used used by algae and/or corals. I think this can help prevent nitrate and phosphate from getting too low and/or help keep them more stable.

If there is no photosynthesis when dosing, ammonia dosing may be very similar to nitrate dosing(with the exception of nitrifying bacteria).

I don’t know that there is more conversion to nitrate at night, but if there is, that may well be a reason to avoid dosing at night, IMO.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you can’t afford it you can always just pee in your tank. Same same but different.

Certainly different as human urine contains very little ammonia. People mostly excrete nitrogen as urea.

 

[Cpc83]

Certainly different as human urine contains very little ammonia. People mostly excrete nitrogen as urea.

Here is my issue, I carbon dose to keep control of phosphate (.04-.12) and Im stuck dosing nitrate( was neo nitro 80ml a night to maintain 2-2.5 with in 24hrs) if I don't carbon dose phosphate rises and still nitrate will go to 0 within 48hrs. If I dose neo nitro my alk goes thru the roof in 7 day from 9ish to 12.8. So I can fix the alk with a good water change but wc won't add nitrates. My thoughts is to dose ammonia bicarbonate on a pump dosing every few hours. Will ammonia bicarbonate affect ph in tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is my issue, I carbon dose to keep control of phosphate (.04-.12) and Im stuck dosing nitrate( was neo nitro 80ml a night to maintain 2-2.5 with in 24hrs) if I don't carbon dose phosphate rises and still nitrate will go to 0 within 48hrs. If I dose neo nitro my alk goes thru the roof in 7 day from 9ish to 12.8. So I can fix the alk with a good water change but wc won't add nitrates. My thoughts is to dose ammonia bicarbonate on a pump dosing every few hours. Will ammonia bicarbonate affect ph in tank?

I do not think dosing ammonium bicarbonate will have much impact on pH.

 

[Jon_W79]

I don’t know that there is more conversion to nitrate at night, but if there is, that may well be a reason to avoid dosing at night, IMO.

I just saw a paper (link below) that shows that symbiotic corals consume ammonium during the night and day, I have also seen an ammonia monitor on a reef tank show that there is a lot more ammonia during the day than at night, so I think It would probably be good to dose more ammonia per hour at night, or maybe only dose it at night.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.4319/lo.1978.23.4.0725&ved=2ahUKEwjj8ImXo8aAAxXSnWoFHSleAzsQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1qA8TVwl5urii2KatDSdal

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I just saw a paper (link below) that shows that symbiotic corals consume ammonium during the night and day, I have also seen an ammonia monitor on a reef tank show that there is a lot more ammonia during the day than at night, so I think It would probably be good to dose more ammonia per hour at night, or maybe only dose it at night.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.4319/lo.1978.23.4.0725&ved=2ahUKEwjj8ImXo8aAAxXSnWoFHSleAzsQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1qA8TVwl5urii2KatDSdal

I’m curious if one was running a large algae farm (I refuse to call it a refugium) on a reverse lighting schedule where it’s lit all night, and one was dosing ammonium only at night……would that negate or reduce the desired effect?