Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mcarroll]

Been adding ~0.04 ppm daily and it decreased, have upped it to 0.03 morning and evening, so i guess i should up the dose to atleast 0.05 every morning and evening?

Something like that, yes! At the very least establish a positive trend where PO4 is steadily increasing.

[Edit] Other microbal life is present, have small patches of green cyano, green film algae, corals are looking pretty good actually. Especially the LPS. Some sort or brown/green hairalgae

Definitely good....hopefully it will mean a quick recovery once you get levels up consistently!! Fingers crossed!

Brown snotty powder .

Kinda sounds more like diatoms, but impossible to be sure without looking through a microscope.

As long as it's still gone!!!

 

[The new fish on the block]

*UPDATE*

It seems that my Dino has gone away and been replaced with diatoms

 

[Lowefx]

Here you can see cyano over top of the dinos. Behind the cyano, near the bubble gum chalice, is where it is clearing up. Not sure if this is a coincident or not. Either way, tomorrow I'm doing a 30% water change and hopefully adding a UV 57w.

 

[zachxlutz]

I'm leaning amphidinium at the moment. Got video?

I had a pretty hard time getting the photo... not sure I'll be able to get any video. I'll try tomorrow morning. I've been adding .12-.15 ppm phosphates to the tank daily. I just spent a good long time blowing the rocks off (and damaging my tiny frogspawn in the process, ugh). I'm hoping this clears up soon. It's kind of an eye sore.

 

[Lowefx]

Here you can see cyano over top of the dinos. Behind the cyano, near the bubble gum chalice, is where it is clearing up. Not sure if this is a coincident or not. Either way, tomorrow I'm doing a 30% water change and hopefully adding a UV 57w.

McCarrol, what does this mean? Also my LPS are dieing one by one.

 

[Cscultho]

The ostreposis still has a foot hold in my tank even after keeping my P&N elevated, (0.1-0.25) & (10-20) respectively. The large water change i did on Friday seems to have reduced the dino population considerably but the dino still pops up on the sand bed in smaller sizes. With that said, i continue to remove the sand bed slowly where the ostreposis pops up in hopes of allowing the good algae to take hold.

What i find interesting is even after running such high P&N levels for over a month one would expect to see another algae creep in but cyna and green algae are still not taking hold.

should i shut down my UV to allow the good algae to take hold????

 

[taricha]

@Lowefx just looked back through and saw that this is large cell amphidinium.
This kind doesn't respond to UV, and is typically low or non toxic. However your coral problems would make me run GAC in case toxins are having an effect.
Don't know of good methods for cell removal with this kind other than siphoning.
I've wondered if using a powerhead with a venturi intake to make tiny bubbles would lift mucus/dinos/cyano off the sand.
The people that have battled Large Cell Amphidinium successfully (myself included) relied more heavily on elevated nutrients and adding algae ave associated grazers. Things turned for me when I put blobs of chaeto right on top of the brown patches.

The lightening may be places where some grazers are having an effect.

 

[Lowefx]

@Lowefx just looked back through and saw that this is large cell amphidinium.
This kind doesn't respond to UV, and is typically low or non toxic. However your coral problems would make me run GAC in case toxins are having an effect.
Don't know of good methods for cell removal with this kind other than siphoning.
I've wondered if using a powerhead with a venturi intake to make tiny bubbles would lift mucus/dinos/cyano off the sand.
The people that have battled Large Cell Amphidinium successfully (myself included) relied more heavily on elevated nutrients and adding algae ave associated grazers. Things turned for me when I put blobs of chaeto right on top of the brown patches.

The lightening may be places where some grazers are having an effect.

Should I try to put a blob of Cheato on top of the dense dino spots? I literally just bought a UV about an hour ago, Dang!

 

[mcarroll]

@Lowefx and @Cscultho it could be a matter that you need a fresh innoculation – whether from a new ball of chaeto, some detritus from a healthy system, or some new live rock, etc.

It could also be some other limiting nutrient, but that seems less likely. A Triton test could give you some answers on this.

I think RHF has said that Fe is the next most likely limiting ingredient if you just wanted to do aggressive water changes or actually dose some Fe-oriented plant fertilizer.

@Lowefx what corals specifically are having trouble? Do you have a full tank shot you could post (or have already) that includes them?

 

[Cscultho]

@Lowefx and @Cscultho it could be a matter that you need a fresh innoculation – whether from a new ball of chaeto, some detritus from a healthy system, or some new live rock, etc.

It could also be some other limiting nutrient, but that seems less likely. A Triton test could give you some answers on this.

I think RHF has said that Fe is the next most likely limiting ingredient if you just wanted to do aggressive water changes or actually dose some Fe-oriented plant fertilizer.

@Lowefx what corals specifically are having trouble? Do you have a full tank shot you could post (or have already) that includes them?

Thanks @mcarroll. Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a triton test and what will I be looking for with triton?

Is Fe healthy for a reef aquarium? I thought heavy metals are something we don't want in our systems? Again for give me for my ignorance of the finer details of reading...

 

[Lowefx]

@Lowefx and @Cscultho it could be a matter that you need a fresh innoculation – whether from a new ball of chaeto, some detritus from a healthy system, or some new live rock, etc.

It could also be some other limiting nutrient, but that seems less likely. A Triton test could give you some answers on this.

I think RHF has said that Fe is the next most likely limiting ingredient if you just wanted to do aggressive water changes or actually dose some Fe-oriented plant fertilizer.

@Lowefx what corals specifically are having trouble? Do you have a full tank shot you could post (or have already) that includes them?

Posted below is a red chalice with yellow rim about 50% gone. My rainbow monti is losing its color from the center (just noticed this yesterday), the galaxia is losing a head a day, and the bubblegum chalice is a good size, and as you can see it's starting to recede.
I'd like to try the triton water test...

 

[Lowefx]

Added

 

[Eddie Rogers]

@taricha and @mcarroll thank you for the ID of prorocentrum dinos back in post #715. Do you know if a UV sterilizer has any effect on them? They do seem to disappear at night and then come charging back once the light is on

 

[taricha]

@taricha and @mcarroll thank you for the ID of prorocentrum dinos back in post #715. Do you know if a UV sterilizer has any effect on them? They do seem to disappear at night and then come charging back once the light is on

My prorocentrum were knocked back considerably by UV.
Tend to the other parts as well.

 

[mcarroll]

Posted below is a red chalice with yellow rim about 50% gone. My rainbow monti is losing its color from the center (just noticed this yesterday), the galaxia is losing a head a day, and the bubblegum chalice is a good size, and as you can see it's starting to recede.

It's possible this may have been from prior stress from before stabilizing the system....possibly toxin exposure.

Have alk, ca and mg been stable during all this? How about salinity?

 

[zachxlutz]

I've been continuing to blow the rocks and sand off whenever possible. I'm not sure if I'm really making any progress yet though. I've dosed 21.1 ml (.81 ppm!) of phosphorus in the last 11 days and every day I check the phosphates the levels are between 0 ppb and 12 ppb (0.00-0.037). I've been upping my dose each time but keep coming back to super low phosphates! I can't believe how nutrient limited my tank is! Should I pull more of the macros out of the refugium? I hesitate to remove it for some reason. There is a lot of room left to grow in the refugium area... I don't think the macros are limited by anything but nutrients. My pH has been rising considerably in the last few days... leading me to believe that the additional nutrients are increasing photosynthesis in the tank thus raising the pH. I'll continue to report in.

 

[Lowefx]

It's possible this may have been from prior stress from before stabilizing the system....possibly toxin exposure.

Have alk, ca and mg been stable during all this? How about salinity?

Alk is the only thing that has not been stable. I try to keep it near 8.3 as possible. A few weeks ago it dropped to 6.5 because I was on vacation. Otherwise salinity is always stable at 1.026 with help from the ATO.

 

[mcarroll]

Alk is the only thing that has not been stable. I try to keep it near 8.3 as possible. A few weeks ago it dropped to 6.5 because I was on vacation. Otherwise salinity is always stable at 1.026 with help from the ATO.

That's a pretty steep drop – I forgot you mentioned that before – that could be it. Not a lot of nutrients in the system historically either...needed for dealing with repair and stress demands.

Try to keep things as perfect as you can going forward....that's probably all you can do now. As long as they aren't already gone, they'll make a big comeback in the healthy environment.

 

[Lowefx]

That's a pretty steep drop – I forgot you mentioned that before – that could be it. Not a lot of nutrients in the system historically either...needed for dealing with repair and stress demands.

Try to keep things as perfect as you can going forward....that's probably all you can do now. As long as they aren't already gone, they'll make a big comeback in the healthy environment.

Trying to keep it stable. After my 25g water change yesterday, I'm actually showing more polyp extension from sps. I tried to direct feed the red/yellow chalice, but no sign of feeders. I now have a UV sterilizer, should I hook it up or not?

 

[mcarroll]

That mostly depends on the particular dino you have.....there's (at least) one that doesn't seem to go into the water column in any appreciable numbers, so they'll never see the UV. Microscope ID required...but I can't remember if you diagnosed or not? Depending on that diagnosis, "most dino blooms" seem to respond.....unless you think you might return the UV, I'd hook it up.