Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mdd1986]

Did you run any of the tests from the first post to check it? That's the way to know. Even better is a microscope since they're so cheap...but you can start with the other diagnostics first to get the ball rolling.

This is the section you can use without a scope...

Yes the pictures I posted are from the microscope. I can't really find anything that looks similar to what I see. Doesn't look like dinos, cyano or diatoms to be honest.

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks Randy, yes I always had a bloom after water change but now I cant see any dino in the microscope, the cells I see are round and gold color, wont move and are really really small and my toy microscope dont help, when I had ostreopsis I could see it easy couse they are big. Now all I can see is this, and its with 900 magnification.

Chrysophytes for sure I think now. Someone else had a shot that looked just like this that they actually had done and ID'd at a university. Will try to like it later.

 

[Bob Lauson]

@Bob Lauson have you already been able to read through these parts of the first post? You have the nutrient dosing part down it looks like, but this info might help with the rest of it.....why your current treatments probably aren't a good idea to continue. In a nutshell they prevent system stability. But don't let me stop you from reading!





BTW, how is your CUC? Did they take a hit or get wiped out? If so, don't forget to build them back up once it looks like dino's are on the retreat.

No issues with the CUC - mostly turbos.

 

[mdd1986]

I just did the hydro prexoide test. I see a decent amount of bubbles. Does this still look like dino?

 

[mcarroll]

Chrysophytes too I'm guessing.

@DarkSky (if I'm remembering correctly) has a chrysophyte thread that I think has photos not unlike this.

See what you think – I can't be positive.

 

[mcarroll]

Test 1: Peroxide Test - dinos/diatoms don't bubble.

I just did the hydro prexoide test. I see a decent amount of bubbles. Does this still look like dino?

Sounds like mostly cyano at the very least.

(BTW, this is a great demonstration of cyano's ability to enzymatically deal with peroxide via generation of peroxidase. Established cyano mats apparently have a very significant capabilities in this area.)

I would also do the shake up test to see if the dino's are able to re-coagulate into a glob.

Pretty much nothing else will do that and will just stay broken up.

• Take a sample in a small vial and close it.
• Shake it up to break the sample up into little bits as much as possible.
• Then let it sit – ideally under a light – and see what happens.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Chrysophytes too I'm guessing.

@DarkSky (if I'm remembering correctly) has a chrysophyte thread that I think has photos not unlike this.

See what you think – I can't be positive.

Interesting. His manual removal, 3 day blackout, and vibrant(?) actually did something for a change? Similar to my method of flashing GFO for 24 hours. How long did it take altogether?

 

[mcarroll]

Interesting. His manual removal, 3 day blackout, and vibrant(?) actually did something for a change? Similar to my method of flashing GFO for 24 hours. How long did it take altogether?

Apparently, but that's not what I'm recommending – just the photos.

I haven't seen chrysophytes photograph that way anywhere else except by the professor he was working with.

I'm curious what you think of the comparison too.

 

[bh750]

Large Cell Amphidinium (post #1191)...
See that link for my post rounding up some accounts of mine and others versus this type.
It's been coming up a bunch lately, so I've been thinking a bit and got ideas for a direct cell removal method. This is needed because it is the only kind that we know will not go into the water, and can't be touched by UV or other methods targeting the water column.

What you need:

• A UV unit,
• 5 gal bucket or two
• Tubing for vacuuming out sand
• fresh water (tap is fine)

Siphon the sand surface trouble spots (get all the cyano too - amphidinium hangs out in cyano a lot) into a 5gal bucket or similar. Not a 1/4" airline tube - too small. Think Gravel Vac, but without the wide mouth that slows the flow and lets the sand grains fall back down. 1/2 or 3/4" tube or so. Whatever is quick and relatively painless.

If you aren't wanting to do water changes, run the water that you siphoned out (not the sand - leave it in bucket for later) from your 5 Gal bucket through a UV unit - slowly back into the tank. If you wanna be real thorough, run the water through the UV into a 2nd 5 Gal bucket, then from the 2nd bucket through the UV again back into the tank.
Very few amphidinium should even be in the water - they'll hug the sand - but those that do, should not survive a trip or two through slow-flow (200 gph)UV.

Now for the sand. Scoop with a net as fine as whatever size grains you want to keep and dunk under fresh water (even tap is fine) for 10 seconds.
Then replace the sand back into the tank. The 10 seconds of fresh water will lyse the amphidinium cells, but it should be short enough to allow most of the stronger inverts (pods, shrimp, ostracods, worms, etc) to survive.

That's the best I've got so far on a selective cell killing for Large Cell Amphidinium.

Ok @taricha (and everyone) my UV unit arrived today. I'm going to try two different approaches, the above and a modified. I'll log details and post results as usual. Please weigh in with thoughts. In both cases I will be leaving my new UV on 24/7 in addition to the below, pulling directly from my display tank.

Approach 1 (Taricha's above

• Siphon water and sand into a bucket
• Run water from bucket through UV (I'll have two of them inline) and back into display
• Dunk sand in fresh water for 10 secs
• Place sand back into tank

Approach 2 (using a 10 micron sock)

• Siphon water and sand through a 10 micron sock (NMO so is actually 10 microns)
• Water comes out of sock and into sump
• Dunk sand in fresh water for 10 secs
• Place sand back into tank

Theoretically no dinos should get through the sock, I'm thinking.

I still also have cyano. So while I optimistically wait for more success stories on dosing Si to beat these large celled Amphidiunium this is my plan. Crossing fingers!

 

[zachxlutz]

I still also have cyano. So while I optimistically wait for more success stories on dosing Si to beat these large celled Amphidiunium this is my plan. Crossing fingers!

No real advice from me on your UV plan (i dealt with ostreopsis & lca), I just set my pump in the tank and let it run and that did the trick for the ostreopsis.

Re: amphidinium: I've been dosing Si for a few days now and it's been testing 0.00 every time following dosing. I've upped my dose a bit in order to try and see some appreciable Si in the water. I'll try and remember to tag you when I post an update, or follow my thread (in sig below) if you want to try and keep up, I'll definitely be posting on both this thread and my personal thread.

 

[bh750]

No real advice from me on your UV plan (i dealt with ostreopsis & lca), I just set my pump in the tank and let it run and that did the trick for the ostreopsis.

Re: amphidinium: I've been dosing Si for a few days now and it's been testing 0.00 every time following dosing. I've upped my dose a bit in order to try and see some appreciable Si in the water. I'll try and remember to tag you when I post an update, or follow my thread (in sig below) if you want to try and keep up, I'll definitely be posting on both this thread and my personal thread.

Awesome. Thanks!!

 

[costacarles]

.

 

[costacarles]

Hey guys, some help with ID needed

Tank and micro views, and video

NO3 around 2-3
PO4 0.06








Thanks!

Anyone else on the ID of those?

 

[mcarroll]

Hm.....not sure, but someone will be!

 

[mcarroll]

@costacarles have you already started with the stuff on the first post of this thread?

 

[mdd1986]

Sounds like mostly cyano at the very least.

(BTW, this is a great demonstration of cyano's ability to enzymatically deal with peroxide via generation of peroxidase. Established cyano mats apparently have a very significant capabilities in this area.)

I would also do the shake up test to see if the dino's are able to re-coagulate into a glob.

Pretty much nothing else will do that and will just stay broken up.

• Take a sample in a small vial and close it.
• Shake it up to break the sample up into little bits as much as possible.
• Then let it sit – ideally under a light – and see what happens.

So i did the filter test and nothing passed through the coffee filter paper So I don't think its Dinos. Also it didn't form clumps again after shaking it up. I did look at @DarkSky thread which is helpful thank you for the link. Since I started with totally dry rock and Sand, The stuff growing on my rocks looks very similar to what he has.So maybe it is chrysophyte? I'm not sure what zoom he has some of those pictures. But mine were 600x. Most of mine still looked clear not green in color. Although its hard to see when its in the clumps since its all green there.

 

[Beardo]

Hey guys, some help with ID needed

Tank and micro views, and video

NO3 around 2-3
PO4 0.06








Thanks!

Both Prorocentrum and Coolia.
The first image of a single dino is Prorocentrum (oval shape with a flatish end)
The next couple images of single dinos are Coolia (more round in shape)
Last couple of images look like encysted dinos.

 

[Beardo]

Thank you for the response. In all sincerity-how do we know what is right? Are the things I am doing hurting? I have no idea. Response seems to be 30% success with Vibrant and/or H2O2 dosing. I am trying a limited shotgun approach ( if such a high thing is possible).

I am really trying to be patient but long for the days on my past aquariums started with live rock where my wife and I could enjoy a clean aquarium with glass of wine and talk about the day. Now I look at my aquarium and resist the urge to try some nuclear option.

I feel your pain, I battled dinos for 3 years with Ostreopsis being one of them. Out of desperation, I tried everything that was out there as possible solutuons without success. It wasn't until I implemented the strategies outlined in this thread along with a properly sized UV that I finally had success.
As far as UV sizing , I found that somewhere in the 0.5 watts/gallon to be appropriate. I had tried a smaller unit before and was unsuccessful.

 

[Jolanta]

Chrysophytes for sure I think now. Someone else had a shot that looked just like this that they actually had done and ID'd at a university. Will try to like it later.

I will be very thankfull if you find the picture or link

 

[mcarroll]

@Jolanta here.....lemme know if it's close, or just coincidence that I thought so.

Chrysophytes too I'm guessing.

@DarkSky (if I'm remembering correctly) has a chrysophyte thread that I think has photos not unlike this.

See what you think – I can't be positive.