Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mcarroll]

This would verify my assessment, no?

The development of the Phaeocystis blooms in
the North Sea (Lancelot 1995) is apparently due to
the increase of N relative to P and especially silica.
Mucilage development in the Adriatic Sea also seems
to depend largely on the N/P ratio, the physical envi-
ronment and climatic conditions (Rinaldi et al. 1995).

Mass Development of Marine Benthic Sarcinochrysidales (Chrysophyceae s.l. ) in Corsica (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...arcinochrysidales_Chrysophyceae_sl_in_Corsica [accessed Feb 20 2018].

I tend to think so.....gonna have to move this part of the conversation over to your Chrysophyte thread now that we have more info! (I'll be there in a min with a post.)

 

[mcarroll]

Dang....I just wiped the post I was writing in the process of making the post above. :mad: If I had unlimited time I wouldn't care....

I'll have to come back later.....

;Rage;Rage;Rage;Rage;Rage

 

[reeferfoxx]

Dang....I just wiped the post I was writing in the process of making the post above. :mad: If I had unlimited time I wouldn't care....

I'll have to come back later.....

;Rage;Rage;Rage;Rage;Rage

 

[JAMSOURY]

Started dosing Seachem phosphorus in my tank, i used a lot of it just to get my P to 0.10 and I just checked two days later and the Dino’s sucked it all up. Now I’m reading 0.00. I have a 200g tank. My 500ml of P is gone really quick. Anyone have the same problems? Looks like it’s going to be a little challenge/expensive keeping P up

 

[reeferfoxx]

We need to get back on the dino track!

Started dosing Seachem phosphorus in my tank, i used a lot of it just to get my P to 0.10 and I just checked two days later and the Dino’s sucked it all up. Now I’m reading 0.00. I have a 200g tank. My 500ml of P is gone really quick. Anyone have the same problems? Looks like it’s going to be a little challenge/expensive keeping P up

Expensive, yes. Big tanks...
If you havent incorporated a UV unit, I would do so. That will largely reduce the population and have better control of nutrients. Are you dosing nitrates in addition to phosphates?

 

[mcarroll]

I just checked two days later and the Dino’s sucked it all up.

It doesn't change your situaiont, but just FYI it's actually the bacterial breakdown of all the old, dead dino cells that's sucking it all up....not the dino's per se.

Once you get past that "backlog" of detritus, you won't have to dose much. Vaccuuming the sand and rocks is very helpful too, but I would do it as part of a water change where I just threw out the water.

 

[JAMSOURY]

We need to get back on the dino track!


Expensive, yes. Big tanks...
If you havent incorporated a UV unit, I would do so. That will largely reduce the population and have better control of nutrients. Are you dosing nitrates in addition to phosphates?

Yes dosing both!

We need to get back on the dino track!


Expensive, yes. Big tanks...
If you havent incorporated a UV unit, I would do so. That will largely reduce the population and have better control of nutrients. Are you dosing nitrates in addition to phosphates?

yes dosing both!! Nitrates don’t seem to be hard keeping up. Just the phosphates in my case.

 

[JAMSOURY]

It doesn't change your situaiont, but just FYI it's actually the bacterial breakdown of all the old, dead dino cells that's sucking it all up....not the dino's per se.

Once you get past that "backlog" of detritus, you won't have to dose much. Vaccuuming the sand and rocks is very helpful too, but I would do it as part of a water change where I just threw out the water.

Wait so try and vacuum up some of the Dino’s out and keep it clean? I thought I read somewhere here to just let it all get dirty and don’t really worry about scrubbing the glass and all. Thanks for the help

 

[mcarroll]

Wait so try and vacuum up some of the Dino’s out and keep it clean? I thought I read somewhere here to just let it all get dirty and don’t really worry about scrubbing the glass and all. Thanks for the help

I actually try to keep folks from thinking about this thread as if it were a canned solution....your tank and situation are always unique...at least in small ways....so it's important.

I also never claimed "dirty" in this thread...but I've tried a few times to put it down.

So....

Raising nutrient levels: YES
Letting the glass get overgrown: YES

But allowing tank care to slide? NO

Some gravel vacuuming will help as I said, but it's not required...dosing and allowing the bacteria to consume things (and everything that comes after that) is a perfectly valid approach.

Some folks are phobic of water changes in this scenario, so don't do it if that describes you.

I would do them myself.....at least in the circumstance you're in where you seemed to want an alternative to putting all the phosphate in the tank.

Water changes w/gravel vacuuming has the added benefit of removing that carbon source from the tank right then and there. Your overall recovery time should be shorter as a result, regardless of short term performance. Some folks report their bloom growing after a water change....not sure I'd let that stop me, but I would definitely use my judgement from within the situation to decide.

I hope that helps to clarify, but hit me again with any questions you still have!

BTW, it would not be a bad idea to calculate a dose of PO4 and NO3 for your water change bucket when you do that water change. One of the ideas is NOT to lower nutrients in the process.

 

[JAMSOURY]

I actually try to keep folks from thinking about this thread as if it were a canned solution....your tank and situation are always unique...at least in small ways....so it's important.

I also never claimed "dirty" in this thread...but I've tried a few times to put it down.

So....

Raising nutrient levels: YES
Letting the glass get overgrown: YES

But allowing tank care to slide? NO

Some gravel vacuuming will help as I said, but it's not required...dosing and allowing the bacteria to consume things (and everything that comes after that) is a perfectly valid approach.

Some folks are phobic of water changes in this scenario, so don't do it if that describes you.

I would do them myself.....at least in the circumstance you're in where you seemed to want an alternative to putting all the phosphate in the tank.

Water changes w/gravel vacuuming has the added benefit of removing that carbon source from the tank right then and there. Your overall recovery time should be shorter as a result, regardless of short term performance. Some folks report their bloom growing after a water change....not sure I'd let that stop me, but I would definitely use my judgement from within the situation to decide.

I hope that helps to clarify, but hit me again with any questions you still have!

BTW, it would not be a bad idea to calculate a dose of PO4 and NO3 for your water change bucket when you do that water change. One of the ideas is NOT to lower nutrients in the process.

Perfect! That clarifies a lot!! Thanks!!

 

[IKD]

Yes dosing both!

yes dosing both!! Nitrates don’t seem to be hard keeping up. Just the phosphates in my case.

Hi Jamsoury, I had the same experience with dosing a lot of Flourish up front to get levels around 0.1. I have a 265g and re-ordered some more Flourish this week. Even at ‘steady’ level, I still need to add ~10-15ml per day to keep levels around .8-.14 range. The Nitrate levels were much easier to sustain as you are seeing too.

 

[Bob Lauson]

Started dosing NeoPhos two nights ago to raise my PO4. When I started I was at 0.04 ppm, dosed 7 ml, 24 hours later was at 0.08ppm. Did another 7 ml dose and a day later I was at 0.12 ppm. So feeling good about that. Going to skip a day of dosing and check tomorrow. Nitrates at 10 ppm and staying there. I ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here in two days.

 

[g5flier]

I was about 2.5 months into this new 75 gallon no sand bed system, started it with Live Rock, no issues beyond typical start up issues with diatoms, went away for a week, long dive trip came back to really disgusting brown slimy DINO’s all over the rock, it was pretty bad but none of the SPS sticks in the tank were impacted. Went on to R2R read thru a lot of this thread, confirmed it was dino’s with a microscope, watched a great video on YouTube from AmroAzul about his battle with Dino’s and immediately started the process of trying to get them out of my tank.

Using the same way that worked for AmroAzul’s system I stopped feeding corals, began running UV 24/7, over several days I took my zero nutrients tank to 0.1ppm Phosphate by dosing about 0.5ml per day of aquavitro activate and about 5-10 ml per day of potassium nitrate, cleaned as much of the dino’s off the surfaces as I could, added new carbon to the reactor and started praying!

Daily testing, daily dosing, daily cleaning. I’m now 9 days into this and my tank is remarkably coming back. I’ve got some hair algae, and very minor amount of Dino’s left. I will continue to test, dose, clean and run UV for several more weeks but this is actually working and my corals (all SPS) haven’t missed a beat. It’s not over by any means but its 100% better then it had been 10 days ago. Thanks to everyone sharing their processes on R2R to knock these Dino’s down!

1. Stop any coral feeding
2. Slowly bring up nutrients to 5ppm Nitrate and 0.1 Phosphate
3. Run UV 24/7
4. Stop water changes
5. Run Carbon and replace every 4-5 days

 

[Bob Lauson]

Also added a couple thousand pods last night

 

[Mike S]

I joined the micscope club today. After staring at a slide for the better part of an hour I'm not sure that I'll ever start a siphon with my mouth again! I've spent some time going back through this thread looking for images of the different types of dinos and I think that I predominately have ostreopsis with some prorocentrun. Ostreopsis is seed shaped and prorocentrum is more oblong correct?

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

...Ostreopsis is seed shaped and prorocentrum is more oblong correct?

I believe that is correct.

Update on my tank. NO3 and PO4 seemed to have stabilized for the most part. Haven't dosed PO4 in about a week. When I clean out some of the GHA, then PO4 actually goes up a little. NO3 dosing is about once every three to four days. Still get dino growth during the day which gets worse as the week goes on until my weekly cleaning. It almost all goes away at night. Still need to change out the GAC weekly too. Working on setting up the UV now. No more dinos in the fuge though since I switched to blue light only.

Tried sucking out the dinos using an air pump and line feeding into a 5 micron sock but it was painfully slow and my air pump couldn't draw in water fast enough to get it all off of the GHA. The larger 1/2 inch hose works faster over all for me. Just let it sit in a bucket for 30 minutes while I watch a show on Netflix, it collects on the bottom, then poor the water minus the bottom sludge back in. The air pump also gets clogged with bits of GHA which further reduces the flow making the dinos even more difficult to suck out. :mad:

I'd like to add to my CUC but I'm worried about toxins. I think some snails are much more sensitive than others. My ninja star and orange chestnuts died quickly while most of the ceriths lived. ;Dead Getting a lot of bubble algae too. Do tangs eat bubble algae and GHA? Thinking of getting a small one and giving it away when it grows up. Don't trust emerald crabs.....;Bored

 

[Beardo]

I joined the micscope club today. After staring at a slide for the better part of an hour I'm not sure that I'll ever start a siphon with my mouth again! I've spent some time going back through this thread looking for images of the different types of dinos and I think that I predominately have ostreopsis with some prorocentrun. Ostreopsis is seed shaped and prorocentrum is more oblong correct?

That's correct. Feel free to post pics though.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks I don't have a way of taking a picture yet. Might pick up a USB camera for my microscope. Need to do a little digging into what is available.

 

[JAMSOURY]

Hi Jamsoury, I had the same experience with dosing a lot of Flourish up front to get levels around 0.1. I have a 265g and re-ordered some more Flourish this week. Even at ‘steady’ level, I still need to add ~10-15ml per day to keep levels around .8-.14 range. The Nitrate levels were much easier to sustain as you are seeing too.

Ok cool, I’m just trying to figure out how much I need to add. Ordering some more to keep the levels steady

 

[mcarroll]

I joined the micscope club today. After staring at a slide for the better part of an hour I'm not sure that I'll ever start a siphon with my mouth again!

That's at least the third or fourth comment just like that in this thread. (Maybe I'm remembering one from my scope thread.)