Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

Well you see this is what I thought. I’d also be surprised if Walt smith was putting his name on a tub of dirt that had zero benefits.

I kid you not though I was watching a live stream only two week ago today and they were all over miracle mud. I asked if anyone had tried Fiji mud and I was told it’s fake by several audience members and three hosts....! Maybe I should of asked for them to backup the claim.

I watch live streams a lot and the stubbornness gets out of control a lot.
Keep in mind those guys are targeting macro alage growth. If your goals are to grow chaeto at its highest rate, I too would recommend miracle mud. However, the fact that it needs to be changed out doesn't appeal my kiss methods one bit.

 

[Jolanta]

It does seem like those with dino outbreaks have either A. a low bioload to begin with or B. have driven their nutrients down to zero using methods such as carbon dosing, GFO, etc. I think it's a good idea to have a stable, appropriate sized, bioload along with a consistent feeding schedule in order to have your nutrient levels be balanced and available for a diverse crowd of microfauna and algae.

Yes Im really tired to add nutrients so I will be loadinging well with fish both of my tanks and we will see. Also I think natural food is really healthy for aun tanks, I had some brown patches in the sand a week ago

I decided to stop adding nitrate and phosphate and give two time a day a good porcion of natural food I made and I can see only a good things going, I start to see a lot of filter feader creaturs and more and more pods, my corals are opening better too, and my brown pathes on the sand are disapearing.

I also had some crysophytas on my rock and there is no sighn of it anymore.

 

[zachxlutz]

Yes Im really tired to add nutrients so I will be loadinging well with fish both of my tanks and we will see. Also I think natural food is really healthy for aun tanks, I had some brown patches in the sand a week ago I decided to stop adding nitrate and phosphate and give two time a day a good porcion of natural food I made and I can see only a good things going, I start to see a lot of filter feader creaturs and more and more pods, my corals are opening better too, and my brown pathes on the sand are disapearing.I also had some crysophytas on my rock and there is no sighn of it anymore.

Looks great!

 

[reeferfoxx]

@Scubabum Is that your live stream I'm watching on Youtube? ReefBum?

 

[saltyhog]

One question that my friend made and Im curious, has anyone of you infected with dinos have heavy bioload in his tank? My tank always have only few fish and I was wondering maybe thats the problem and only adding more fish we dont need to dose anything anymore.

I would call my bioload fairly light (5 wrasses, a Copperband butterfly and a purple tang in a 6 foot tank). I have 5 fish in QT right now that I plan to add in two groups. They really have completed QT, I was just holding out because I thought I had read not to add new livestock while battling dinos?

 

[Jolanta]

I would call my bioload fairly light (5 wrasses, a Copperband butterfly and a purple tang in a 6 foot tank). I have 5 fish in QT right now that I plan to add in two groups. They really have completed QT, I was just holding out because I thought I had read not to add new livestock while battling dinos?

Yes I think thats our problem, we have light bioloas so our nutrients stay very low. I will let you know how it goes adding more fish.

 

[sfin52]

Nope just run activated granular carbon.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I would call my bioload fairly light (5 wrasses, a Copperband butterfly and a purple tang in a 6 foot tank). I have 5 fish in QT right now that I plan to add in two groups. They really have completed QT, I was just holding out because I thought I had read not to add new livestock while battling dinos?

Yes. Because some dino feed on bacteria and/or ammonia. So adding fish can cause ammonia spikes.

I only added fish because my second form of dinos was a real N fixer(coolia). Cause of getting coolia was ambiguous but I attributed it to high amounts of nitrate. After the bloom the rollercoaster of no3 fell to zero. I felt dosing was supporting coolia with inorganic forms. I needed a more organic form so I chose fish. I added 4 new fish to an already establish 4 fish in a 30g. I dose bacteria to compensate for ammonia.

 

[mcarroll]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848602003733

The Amphidinium was outcompeted by diatoms if the Si/N ratio was kept at 1:1 or greater, suggesting that this factor could control its growth in sedimentation ponds

Back-figure your N from your NO3 test (still only a rough number...should be conservative) and your Si ratio from your chosen source of silicate, then you should be able to compute your dose. (Right?)

(Worth noting that's only a sample quote from the abstract.....there are other large concerns addressed too.)

 

[mcarroll]

Is there a Calculator for the Seachem Flourish Phosphorus, Ive found one for the Stump Remover.

I think Seachem does have calculators on their site. They used to have apps for that as well...so check for that too.

 

[Scubabum]

@Scubabum Is that your live stream I'm watching on Youtube? ReefBum?

No @reeferfoxx, ReefBum is Keith Berkelhamer. Here is my latest video after stocking my last fish after a Marine Velvet outbreak... AND after a full siphon of Dino and cleanup of sand bed

 

[taricha]

Back-figure your N from your NO3 test (still only a rough number...should be conservative) and your Si ratio from your chosen source of silicate, then you should be able to compute your dose. (Right?)

(Worth noting that's only a sample quote from the abstract.....there are other large concerns addressed too.)

I remember this paper (along with the Si dosing article by Randy) got a close look a couple years ago during an earlier go round with dinos. I'll have to go back and see why it didn't stick.
Maybe wasn't giving results, maybe only dabbled in and not tested thoroughly, or maybe like in my case it was on the list to try, after a bunch of other stuff.

 

[bh750]

Large Cell Amphidinium (post #1191)...
See that link for my post rounding up some accounts of mine and others versus this type.
It's been coming up a bunch lately, so I've been thinking a bit and got ideas for a direct cell removal method. This is needed because it is the only kind that we know will not go into the water, and can't be touched by UV or other methods targeting the water column.

What you need:

• A UV unit,
• 5 gal bucket or two
• Tubing for vacuuming out sand
• fresh water (tap is fine)

Siphon the sand surface trouble spots (get all the cyano too - amphidinium hangs out in cyano a lot) into a 5gal bucket or similar. Not a 1/4" airline tube - too small. Think Gravel Vac, but without the wide mouth that slows the flow and lets the sand grains fall back down. 1/2 or 3/4" tube or so. Whatever is quick and relatively painless.

If you aren't wanting to do water changes, run the water that you siphoned out (not the sand - leave it in bucket for later) from your 5 Gal bucket through a UV unit - slowly back into the tank. If you wanna be real thorough, run the water through the UV into a 2nd 5 Gal bucket, then from the 2nd bucket through the UV again back into the tank.
Very few amphidinium should even be in the water - they'll hug the sand - but those that do, should not survive a trip or two through slow-flow (200 gph)UV.

Now for the sand. Scoop with a net as fine as whatever size grains you want to keep and dunk under fresh water (even tap is fine) for 10 seconds.
Then replace the sand back into the tank. The 10 seconds of fresh water will lyse the amphidinium cells, but it should be short enough to allow most of the stronger inverts (pods, shrimp, ostracods, worms, etc) to survive.

That's the best I've got so far on a selective cell killing for Large Cell Amphidinium.

@taricha, thanks for this! Glad I stumbled on it just now. Not glad I'm back on this thread :-( So after the process and success I documented last summer here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...ow-along-and-see.253917/page-220#post-3863417

My dinos have been back, for some time awhile. Eventually after the clearup I got Cyano. No surprise maybe after all of the dosing. Also I think it started right after I began adding Reef Roids to my fuges to feed my pods. That may have been the trigger.

Anyway, I'm so glad I read the above. Im about to get a UV, and still will for many reasons. But I was going to run it and cross my fingers. Makes total sense what you say. These dinos have never been anywhere but my sand. I thought maybe I saw some on the walls and rocks a few times but never scraped & tested. And, FWIW, ALL I DO NOW is siphon out the dinos just like you said and run them through a very small micron filter sock. Sometimes I let the water go back into the sump, sometimes down the drain and I do a WC. And....what I'm experiencing now is both Dinos and Cyano at the same time.

A couple questions:

- First when you say "Large Cell" Amph, is there actually a small cell or regular Amph?

- Also, wouldn't a better way to be removing the sand (and water that drained with it) completely? Rather than run it through UV and back into tank? Why do that? Asking b/c I've been removing it completely and havent gotten rid of my Dinos :-(

- Finally, is the goal to keep removing them (over a few cycles maybe) to help other things establish and balance them out?

I'm really glad you posted this. I'm still getting the UV to help me win the battle with both Dinos and Cyano. Or I'k gonna just quit the hobby after fighting this on and off for over 5 years

 

[reeferfoxx]

No @reeferfoxx, ReefBum is Keith Berkelhamer. Here is my latest video after stocking my last fish after a Marine Velvet outbreak... AND after a full siphon of Dino and cleanup of sand bed

Beautiful tank!

 

[tonymacc]

Well my dinos vanished before I could get a sample for the microscope, although I was lazy in that respect but have been pretty busy with work, but not at all lazy with the dosing, no3 has been steady between 8 and 12ppm on redsea test kit and po4 has remained at .08ppm, also redsea test kit. I have a few more clumps of hair growing and a couple patches of cyano but I haven't seen any snot for a few days now.

 

[Paullawr]

Such good news Tony

 

[Paullawr]

And thanks for the weekly update.

 

[saltyhog]

Does ostreopsis form biofilms on glass? Since I've started dosing (nitrates steady at 5, PO4 bouncing between 0.06 and 0.12) I've gone from having to clean my glass daily to every 5-6 days. The sand now looks to be 80% or more improved. Still some on the rocks but that is much less also.

My SPS looks better. Some have actually become more colorful. My blue and purple acros have gotten darker though. I think they will be fine once acclimated to these parameters.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Does ostreopsis form biofilms on glass? Since I've started dosing (nitrates steady at 5, PO4 bouncing between 0.06 and 0.12) I've gone from having to clean my glass daily to every 5-6 days. The sand now looks to be 80% or more improved. Still some on the rocks but that is much less also.

My SPS looks better. Some have actually become more colorful. My blue and purple acros have gotten darker though. I think they will be fine once acclimated to these parameters.

If its a brown film, my scope shows some kind of tiny dino.

 

[taricha]

@taricha, thanks for this! Glad I stumbled on it just now. Not glad I'm back on this thread :-( So after the process and success I documented last summer here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...ow-along-and-see.253917/page-220#post-3863417

My dinos have been back, for some time awhile. Eventually after the clearup I got Cyano. No surprise maybe after all of the dosing. Also I think it started right after I began adding Reef Roids to my fuges to feed my pods. That may have been the trigger.

A couple questions:

- First when you say "Large Cell" Amph, is there actually a small cell or regular Amph?

- Also, wouldn't a better way to be removing the sand (and water that drained with it) completely? Rather than run it through UV and back into tank? Why do that? Asking b/c I've been removing it completely and havent gotten rid of my Dinos :-(

- Finally, is the goal to keep removing them (over a few cycles maybe) to help other things establish and balance them out?

I'm really glad you posted this. I'm still getting the UV to help me win the battle with both Dinos and Cyano. Or I'k gonna just quit the hobby after fighting this on and off for over 5 years

Yeah, in my linked posts, yours was one of the success accounts I pointed to. Sorry you got a relapse.

There's another strain of amphidinium that shows up in people's tanks and is like 1/5th the diameter of these, and it swims more actively, going into the water. People have reduced it with uv.

Some people aren't wanting to do water changes. This gives them that option. And some people want to keep their sand beds - like me. This method tries to protect some sandbed diversity.

Yes, grow other things, while removing Dinos until Dinos are pushed out or run down or burn out.