Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mcarroll]

Well[...]

You got post #2000.

Say cheese!
;Snaphappy

Unfortunately all you win is a case of dino's. ;Stop

 

[Beardo]

So


So the most likely solution is to stop dosing the aquaforest 123 components and take the skimmer offline (or overflowing so no skimming is occuring) and over feed to drive up the nitrates and phosphates even more and allow other algae to reestablish and then try to deal with them.

I would stop dosing everything except Alk and Ca (and mg if you need to). I'm not familiar enough with the AF products to know what they are.
I also wouldn't overfeed to raise nutrients but instead use something like sodium nitrate for nitrates and flourish phosphorous for phosphates. I still use my skimmer though.

 

[Paullawr]

You got post #2000.

Say cheese!
;Snaphappy

Unfortunately all you win is a case of dino's. ;Stop

Is that like a good quality case of wine....?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Well it's looking better today, doesn't seem as much 'dust', no3 about 6ppm and po4 up to 0.04.

Another thing was going to ask, I know I need to halt of any fatty's and aminos etc but was about to go over to ati essentials once my current salt is gone, so all this has happened at an inconvenient time, am I safe to use yet? I'm still dosing my alk cal and mag with seachem atm.

I would give your tank a good 6 months grace period of letting things grow and reestablish. I've tried multiple trials of increasing alk and nutrient reduction only to see a new specie of dino. The increase of alk was a strange one for me but its because corals uptake nutrients as well as coralline algae. Keeping alk in the 7-8 range has been a safe spot for the time being.

 

[Paullawr]

We took a sample this morning for my wife to look at under the microscope. It will be interesting to see what she finds.

I will do the coffee filter test this afternoon aswell.

As for algae, there was quite a bit of green turf algae that we wiped out about 2 months ago with a seahare and trochus snails and crabs. There always has been some light dusting type Cyano that once the turf algae disappeared became more of a matt and proliferated alot and the rust on the sand bed has been around a long time. The trochus snails all dued. We have 1 astrea snail still kicking and the crabs are still living. We rehomed the seahare for now. At this time there is only some brownish hair algae on the back wall. Not very much to be honest.

Glad you got positive ID but the pictures were a good give away in how they were forming.

See this the problem... Change. Alter. Something and it messes that fine line of what was an equilibrium.

Though this can sometimes be a change even out of out control to a degree. Ie sudden temp swing due to unexpectedly warm weather. A heater malfunctioning etc.

Still don't beat yourself up. Who was to know right.

I'm confident now they are in absolutely every tank. Be it in cysts or vegative state. It would be like trying avoid every type of algae from getting in to the tank.

You may however find symptoms can be short lived once you balance again they may go after a couple of months by themselves.

 

[Paullawr]

I would give your tank a good 6 months grace period of letting things grow and reestablish. I've tried multiple trials of increasing alk and nutrient reduction only to see a new specie of dino. The increase of alk was a strange one for me but its because corals uptake nutrients as well as coralline algae. Keeping alk in the 7-8 range has been a safe spot for the time being.

So true.

 

[James Barton]

Anyone have any input for me? Posted on page 100 with my issue.

 

[tonymacc]

You got post #2000.

Say cheese!
;Snaphappy

Unfortunately all you win is a case of dino's. ;Stop

But that's the boo by prize had to put a space as it wouldn't let me put the whole word lol

 

[Paullawr]

Hey everyone I started a new threading figured I'd post here as well.

I've just started battling what I believe to be dinos. My tank is about 4 months old and this stuff just came out of nowhere. It's attached to all my rocks, on my sand, my overflow, and when I blow it off it even will get stuck on my fishes fins. I don't know of it can be toxic to my livestock but I don't know where to start. My foxface will graze at it and my conchs go to town but it is always back with a vengeance. It will get all over my toadstools and mushrooms and now my torch and frogspawn won't open (not sure if the dinos is causing this).

I'm scared for my fish because as soon as I seen it stuck on the find I was thinking fin rot but noticed it wasn't really rotting the fin.

I also have a huge chunk of chaeto in my sump and have been running the lights opposite the dt cycle.

It looks a little Dusty but will get stringy when clumped together.

I need help!!!!!

Temp 78
Salinity 1.025
Ph 7.8
Ammonia/nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Phosphate 0
Calcium 370
Magnesium 1300
Alkalinity 8

Id say with certainty its dinoflagellates purely based on the stringy nature. Likely ostreopsis based on stringing but would need a microscope ID to be positive.

ostreopsis is highly toxic even to us so if it is that and until proven otherwise, safety first. Where gloves and don't expose open wounds to tank. Even a scratch.

Avoid breathing in spray. It's been known to cause neurological symptoms.

Now that I've scared crap out of you.... Sorry but it's often overlooked just how nasty this stuff is. Whilst I've not known anyone Kark it or end up in the emergency room, it's best not to throw caution to the wind.

The basic check list is as follows.

Get yourself cheap microscope with at least 600zoom better if x1000. Take sample and photograph it. Upload for positive ID.

Stop dosing anything. Stop water changes. Remove phosphate remover and any nitrate removers.

Run carbon 24x7 good sized portion and replace weekly.

Keep on top of husbandry. It's going to be hard work from here on in. However without physical removal the more in their can cause problems. Even of dying as refuels living cells. So export.

If it's osteo it responds well to UV but I'm talking big butt pond variety. Don't bother with aquarium ones. We need to go to town.

Then do everything else as documented on here. Start by taking nitrate and phosphate readings and try keep them stable and detectable.

 

[tonymacc]

I would give your tank a good 6 months grace period of letting things grow and reestablish. I've tried multiple trials of increasing alk and nutrient reduction only to see a new specie of dino. The increase of alk was a strange one for me but its because corals uptake nutrients as well as coralline algae. Keeping alk in the 7-8 range has been a safe spot for the time being.

not intending on increasing anything, I intend on keeping all those 3 params as they are now.

 

[Paullawr]

James do you have much in way of corals.

 

[Paullawr]

Keep it Tony. Let's hope it rescinds.

 

[tonymacc]

Perhaps I should have said that ati essentials is another triton. not sure how long you've had it over your side of the pond.

 

[James Barton]

James do you have much in way of corals.

I only have a few. A frogspawn that now doesn't open. A torch tat also doesn't open. Some candy canes doing fine. Mushrooms getting covered by dinos and toadstools getting covered as well. So Yea, not really much at all. And all I do have is small.

 

[cchomistek]

Glad you got positive ID but the pictures were a good give away in how they were forming.

See this the problem... Change. Alter. Something and it messes that fine line of what was an equilibrium.

Though this can sometimes be a change even out of out control to a degree. Ie sudden temp swing due to unexpectedly warm weather. A heater malfunctioning etc.

Still don't beat yourself up. Who was to know right.

I'm confident now they are in absolutely every tank. Be it in cysts or vegative state. It would be like trying avoid every type of algae from getting in to the tank.

You may however find symptoms can be short lived once you balance again they may go after a couple of months by themselves.

Yup I agree it was a good give away.

What is the course of action at this point though is my question. I have 15-25 nitrate already. I have .12 phophate aswell. So both of those are already detectable. Do I need to raise them even more by dosing to out compete these b******?

Is there a clean up crew that will go after this kind of Dino's with success?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[James Barton]

Id say with certainty its dinoflagellates purely based on the stringy nature. Likely ostreopsis based on stringing but would need a microscope ID to be positive.

ostreopsis is highly toxic even to us so if it is that and until proven otherwise, safety first. Where gloves and don't expose open wounds to tank. Even a scratch.

Avoid breathing in spray. It's been known to cause neurological symptoms.

Now that I've scared crap out of you.... Sorry but it's often overlooked just how nasty this stuff is. Whilst I've not known anyone Kark it or end up in the emergency room, it's best not to throw caution to the wind.

The basic check list is as follows.

Get yourself cheap microscope with at least 600zoom better if x1000. Take sample and photograph it. Upload for positive ID.

Stop dosing anything. Stop water changes. Remove phosphate remover and any nitrate removers.

Run carbon 24x7 good sized portion and replace weekly.

Keep on top of husbandry. It's going to be hard work from here on in. However without physical removal the more in their can cause problems. Even of dying as refuels living cells. So export.

If it's osteo it responds well to UV but I'm talking big *** pond variety. Don't bother with aquarium ones. We need to go to town.

Then do everything else as documented on here. Start by taking nitrate and phosphate readings and try keep them stable and detectable.

Well you've succeeded at spooking me. Do of beer to remove my chaeto and stop running the light on my sump?

What is the best way for me to remove it? I just blew all my rock off with a oowerhead with hopes that most of it will get filter through the overflow to my filter socks.

I know you say it's toxic so will it harm my fish and inverts? My foxface has been eating it along with my lawnmower blenny.

And what kind of price am I looking st spending on this UV?

 

[Paullawr]

Well you've succeeded at spooking me. Do of beer to remove my chaeto and stop running the light on my sump?

What is the best way for me to remove it? I just blew all my rock off with a oowerhead with hopes that most of it will get filter through the overflow to my filter socks.

I know you say it's toxic so will it harm my fish and inverts? My foxface has been eating it along with my lawnmower blenny.

And what kind of price am I looking st spending on this UV?

Before a UV we need to identify the strain. It's likely osteo but still I cannot be 100% based on photos as there's hundreds of strains of these things. Just that osteo starts this way before going nuts.

Blasting it off rocks is a bad idea you are distributing it. Blast only with syphon at hand. Ie loosen and suck it up and export. Filter socks mostly useless. Most will pass through. You need something with a far smaller micron to remove.

As I say we need to keep it under check though.

There some remidial things we can do.

One ditch the sand. Sand plays a crucial role in their development cycle. Now getting rid of the sand won't just stop them. This isn't like stopping a flea or worm cycle but it does put a dent in their armour when fighting them.

You will still get them on rocks but it will be less and less husbandry at this time is a relief.

UV have a look on amazon for pond UV. Go with one you can afford. Set it up and run it. If it's osteo they will move in to the water column at night. What you could do if proven it is that strain and you do buy UV is to. Run it a long with three day total black out of tank. Ie tarpaulin the. Whole thing to stop Light. Whilst running UV.

Blackouts don't kill dinos despite being urban myth but coupled with UV could Filter Out a large amount.

Remember dinos are not algae they are protists. Google it. The more you know about this beast the better.

Get your nitrates to around 5ppm and phosphate up. Maintain them and will take it from there.

Still I do recommend a mscope. Just. To Be 100%. I could be wrong it could Be some odd cyano etc else. If I'm right we still need to. Identify strain.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Yup I agree it was a good give away.

What is the course of action at this point though is my question. I have 15-25 nitrate already. I have .12 phophate aswell. So both of those are already detectable. Do I need to raise them even more by dosing to out compete these b******?

Is there a clean up crew that will go after this kind of Dino's with success?

Thoughts anyone?

Keep an eye on your phosphates and to be honest I don't put much faith in tritration po4 testers. They can shift. If you know anyone with a hanna phosphorous ULR or phosphate LR checker, they will be more accurate. Plus easier to use.

I do suspect though that maybe with recent algae die off or any snail/invert die off, you could have seen a temporary nutrient increase. Also the best time to test is in the AM before feeding or in the PM before feeding.

In my experience with dinos, I will see a 0.03 to 0.05ppm po4 daily reduction.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Is that like a good quality case of wine....?

More like whine ;Hilarious;Facepalm;Shy

 

[cchomistek]

Ok here is what was found under the microscope.

The last one was a screenshot from a video she took. As you can see there are some larger ones and some smaller dinoflagellates.

So I guess we can confirm that it is dinoflagellates. Now to figure out what type. And what can be done to get rid of them.

@taricha

Can I get an ID. Talking with my wife she believes we possibly have two types the amphidium and the prorectrum type of Dino's.

Or if anyone else wants to chime in it would be appreciated. As the latter type is toxic could it have been what may have killed the snails?