Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Bret Brinkmann]

Socks will work if the micron rating is small enough. I have a 10 micron sock coming for siphoning them off. I read others doing the same successfully.

I still haven't been able to ID mine yet. Post 1829 has the videos. Between trying to keep up with this thread and researching new things to help with the outbreak, it doesn't leave much time to look into ID before bedtime. I did get some GAC going. I have the Red Sea nitrate pro test kit coming so I can check low range nitrate verses my ATI high range kit. Just cleaned out nearly a pound of GHA from my LR. It was taking my little 29G tank over...

Question about SeaChem Flourish. There are several types. I am thinking of getting the Flourish Phosphorus given that it is more concentrated and has less other stuff in it too. Would there be any reason not to? Is there a better product?

 

[ncaldwell]

I finally just beat dino's after almost a year, small filter socks didn't work for me as the dino's just grew on them after a couple hours and overflowed. Added a uv sterilizer and boom gone almost overnight. So mad I didn't try on sooner. I hated my tank for so long when I didn't have to

 

[Paullawr]

This was taken 9/28/2017 or around the first of October. Keep in mind, I didn't decide to give up on the tank just yet. The getting worse before better was to be expected.

In between 9/28 and 10/23 I mostly had GHA growing. I stopped dosing nutrients at that point. I let the GHA starve it self out. I also started dosing bacterias to help the process(<--stupid mistake). October 23rd I received my microscope and found a new dino thriving. That day i threw in the towel. I had enough. Started a 10g for fish during the rebuild.

This was 11/06/2017


Since the tank started progressing, I started clearing excess rock and tried straightening up the tank.

6 days later on 11/12/2017


They cyano picture was 9 days ago last week.


Now the progression of the cyano is troubling. Some started growing, then it stopped growing. I didnt take pictures. But after two water changes within 7 days totaling 30% the cyano took off.

This is where I start looking at my salt mix, source water(ro/di), lighting, flow, feedings, etc etc.

Awesome post. Encouragement enough.

 

[Paullawr]

I'll get on it. Now is this stuff Going to harm my fish that eat it? And are my corals going to make it?

It did have a negative effect on my sps frags when it was growing over them. However I cannot be sure if that was due to me trying to remove it (turkey baster) or the dino itself. So 50/50.

Fish should be OK. They don't tend to eat much of it. Probably tastes bad. I don't fancy trying it to find out.

Snails etc are likely to fair less well including micro fauna.

 

[Paullawr]

First I would like to thank you @taricha for your post. I appreciate the help and anyone else who has weighed in thus far.

@taricha you say to siphon out. I assume you mean siphon into a filter bag but I thought this was not asvised as the dinos would just go through. If not what micron filter bag is needed??

Will increasing the nitrates and phosphates help at all or the fact that they are already are significantly above zero do what is needed as it is??

I have read your "end gane" post already @taricha and I do understand what you mean that some algae is going to occur. Any thoughts on why the snails died off if it was not the dinos? Possibly the vodka making the algae not what was needed and eating Cyano killed them off??

Yes will go through sock. When referring to syphon I mean pipe in tank. Other end out to bucket. If you are using a gravel vac of sorts its most likely just going to go through the bag.

 

[Paullawr]

Sorry, but what is GAC?

And James don't expect overnight results. Some have been lucky and it's fine over a month or so others more drawn out.

Keep us posted on successes or otherwise.

 

[Paullawr]

I finally just beat dino's after almost a year, small filter socks didn't work for me as the dino's just grew on them after a couple hours and overflowed. Added a uv sterilizer and boom gone almost overnight. So mad I didn't try on sooner. I hated my tank for so long when I didn't have to

Good to hear further positives in this battle.
This is also why I feel its important to ID to begin with.
UV will work good on cells that distribute in to water column at night (or during black out). However will do diddly squat to the sand dweller that choose not to leave their home.

Therefore UV purchases should be based on type.

 

[taricha]

Socks will work if the micron rating is small enough. I have a 10 micron sock coming for siphoning them off. I read others doing the same successfully.

I still haven't been able to ID mine yet. Post 1829 has the videos. Between trying to keep up with this thread and researching new things to help with the outbreak, it doesn't leave much time to look into ID before bedtime. I did get some GAC going. I have the Red Sea nitrate pro test kit coming so I can check low range nitrate verses my ATI high range kit. Just cleaned out nearly a pound of GHA from my LR. It was taking my little 29G tank over...

Question about SeaChem Flourish. There are several types. I am thinking of getting the Flourish Phosphorus given that it is more concentrated and has less other stuff in it too. Would there be any reason not to? Is there a better product?

Large cell amphidinium for yours. When this thread refers to Flourish for dosing P, we mean the Flourish Phosphorus. Not just Flourish. Don't add other stuff without good reason to.

 

[taricha]

My phosphates finally came off 0 and are now at .06 after 3 days of dosing Brightwell Neophos. and I will continue dosing 10ml until I get to .1 ppm. My nitrates are currently 5ppm and I wil keep feeding heavier but stop the KNO3 dosing.

Keep the feeding same for now. And Dose to increase N. Don't elevate nutrients through overfeeding. Dosing simple inorganic forms of P&N is more helpful.
After dinos are long gone and things are stabilized, then feeding can be adjusted to whatever new healthy consistent level will be, and dosing can become rare.

 

[Paullawr]

Socks will work if the micron rating is small enough. I have a 10 micron sock coming for siphoning them off. I read others doing the same successfully.

I still haven't been able to ID mine yet. Post 1829 has the videos. Between trying to keep up with this thread and researching new things to help with the outbreak, it doesn't leave much time to look into ID before bedtime. I did get some GAC going. I have the Red Sea nitrate pro test kit coming so I can check low range nitrate verses my ATI high range kit. Just cleaned out nearly a pound of GHA from my LR. It was taking my little 29G tank over...

Question about SeaChem Flourish. There are several types. I am thinking of getting the Flourish Phosphorus given that it is more concentrated and has less other stuff in it too. Would there be any reason not to? Is there a better product?

Yes if the sock is small enough of course it will. Most people don't have 10 micron socks but do generally have access to a standard syphon.

However yes this is correct 10 micron or lower ie 1 micron diatom filter will trap them.

 

[James Barton]

And James don't expect overnight results. Some have been lucky and it's fine over a month or so others more drawn out.

Keep us posted on successes or otherwise.

I will Paul. I have some of the brs rox. 8 carbon, is that considered GAC? Also I not really sure where I should put it since there isn't a really good spot in my sump I could put it where I know the water will flow through it rather than around it.

I hope I can get this under control. I'm looking for a microscope now so I can ID this bugger.

 

[Beardo]

I will Paul. I have some of the brs rox. 8 carbon, is that considered GAC? Also I not really sure where I should put it since there isn't a really good spot in my sump I could put it where I know the water will flow through it rather than around it.

I hope I can get this under control. I'm looking for a microscope now so I can ID this bugger.

The BRS rox .8 is GAC and works well. I put it in a media bag, rinse well with DI water and drop it in the sump.

 

[James Barton]

The BRS rox .8 is GAC and works well. I put it in a media bag, rinse well with DI water and drop it in the sump.

Will just dropping it in the sump anywhere work? I'm online now looking at carbon reactors (my wife is going to kill me) and if sterilizers. Could you link me an example of a pond sized uv sterilizer that would work with my tank? There are a ton and all are rated for much larger volumes of water.

 

[Paullawr]

I will Paul. I have some of the brs rox. 8 carbon, is that considered GAC? Also I not really sure where I should put it since there isn't a really good spot in my sump I could put it where I know the water will flow through it rather than around it.

I hope I can get this under control. I'm looking for a microscope now so I can ID this bugger.

I use rox. It's pretty good in a baggy left near some flow. In fact I tried running in a reactor once but as so fine just went through floss/sponge etc over time....
So baggy in sump should so it. There will be water moving past it.

I originally bought of the bay one of those USB microscope. Think it was advertised at 500x not sure if accurate in reality but was good enough to capture. On highest zoom (whatever it really was) it took some zoom adjustments to get in to focus and basically required sitting lense of scope on scoop of sand. Or nearest to it.
Still it worked OK and will capture video. Which can be converted to gif and uploaded here. Thought that isn't necessary.

If you haven't got dome pick up. Some. Nitrate and phosphate to dose.

 

[James Barton]

I use rox. It's pretty good in a baggy left near some flow. In fact I tried running in a reactor once but as so fine just went through floss/sponge etc over time....
So baggy in sump should so it. There will be water moving past it.

I originally bought of the bay one of those USB microscope. Think it was advertised at 500x not sure if accurate in reality but was good enough to capture. On highest zoom (whatever it really was) it took some zoom adjustments to get in to focus and basically required sitting lense of scope on scoop of sand. Or nearest to it.
Still it worked OK and will capture video. Which can be converted to gif and uploaded here. Thought that isn't necessary.

If you haven't got dome pick up. Some. Nitrate and phosphate to dose.

I'm on brs now putting together an order. Is there a specific brand of N and P I should get?

Also, this is now what my chaeto looks like. What should be done here?

 

[Paullawr]

Re brands. There are the commercial options ie everything from stump remover (seriously) or seachem.
http://www.seachem.com/planted.php

Alternatively DIY with buying some potassium nitrate and sodium phosphate. There are a number of ratios I've seen on Web but when I tried one of them it made quite a weak solution so added a fair bit to RO give it a good shake and dosed a couple of ml at a time (waited a few hours then tested again) to find out how much it was raising nitrate.

 

[James Barton]

Re brands. There are the commercial options ie everything from stump remover (seriously) or seachem.
http://www.seachem.com/planted.php

Alternatively DIY with buying some potassium nitrate and sodium phosphate. There are a number of ratios I've seen on Web but when I tried one of them it made quite a weak solution so added a fair bit to RO give it a good shake and dosed a couple of ml at a time (waited a few hours then tested again) to find out how much it was raising nitrate.

Should I be worried about the growth on the chaeto? And should I be blowing off my corals daily to keep them from being infested?

 

[Paullawr]

Re the corals as i say on my earlier post not sure if dinos killed them or me blowing them with a baster did. Though I suspect it was dino toxin. See how you get on by blowing them just be careful.

I'd dunk the chaeto in some fresh salt water and give it a rinse putting any critters back you can spot. At this stage I wouldn't be too overly concerned with the growth on the macro algae.

Ultimately do what you feel comfortable with. The main thing is when we start treating tank with nutrients then we want to be aggressive and getting rid of excess snot. The less of the mess the easier it will be to balance and prevent the good guys being turned in to food for the things we don't want.

 

[Paullawr]

Ultimately we know nutrient balancing works. I'm not necessarily sold on the magic behind the science as I like to have some form of conclusive proof that doing x y is making z. Still too many success stories to say that it doesn't work.

It you do have floaty dinos then UV will kick their domed shaped butt$ back to prehistoric earth. Will certainly give you the upper hand. Let's get the scope first and take it from there.

 

[cchomistek]

Ultimately we know nutrient balancing works. I'm not necessarily sold on the magic behind the science as I like to have some form of conclusive proof that doing x y is making z. Still too many success stories to say that it doesn't work.

It you do have floaty dinos then UV will kick their domed shaped butt$ back to prehistoric earth. Will certainly give you the upper hand. Let's get the scope first and take it from there.

I know nutrient balance is key for sure. In my situation I have high po4 and no3 and still have large amphidium on my sand. I would of thought with these nutrients it should out completed by other algaes. I am going to stop dosing aquaforest 123 today and siphon my sand to 5 micron sock and add some cheato on the sand to try and out compete the dinos. (Hopefully my tangs don't take a liking to the cheato)