Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, that is correct. Carbon will reduce the amount of excesive bacterioplancton in the water column typical os this escenario . Protein skimmer is needed to keep water oxigenation

You are asserting that activated carbon binds plankton?

What is the evidence for that?

 

[Beuchat]

Hi,

A quick question for anyone that has used this method :

At high organic carbon doses or when starting/incrementing the carbon dose, have you experience an increase in ammonia concentration (or in algae growth, due to ammonia increase) ? . This can occur due to another process which is not full denitrification.

Thanks.

 

[Beuchat]

You are asserting that activated carbon binds plankton?

What is the evidence for that?

Hi Randy, not all types of plankton, but bacterioplankton

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy, not all types of plankton, but bacterioplankton

I know a few bacteria will settle on GAC and grow there, like on other surfaces, but I’ve never seen anyone claim that GAC appreciably reduces bacteria in the water.

What is the evidence that convinced you it does?

 

[Beuchat]

I know a few bacteria will settle on GAC and grow there, like on other surfaces, but I’ve never seen anyone claim that GAC appreciably reduces bacteria in the water.

What is the evidence that convinced you it does?

Hi Randy, This was a personal communication from a hobyst that I trust. He read this in a scientific paper with the conclusion of that GAC removes more bacteria from the water column than the protein skimmer. I will try to find it.

 

[Miami Reef]

Hi Randy, This was a personal communication from a hobyst that I trust. He read this in a scientific paper with the conclusion of that GAC removes more bacteria from the water column than the protein skimmer. I will try to find it.

A scientific paper said that carbon adsorbs bacteria, similarly to how GFO adsorbs phosphates? Interesting. I’m aware that bacteria can grow on it, but I wouldn’t think the carbon would actually adsorb bacteria.

I’m pretty skeptical, too. I need to see that paper.

 

[Troylee]

A scientific paper said that carbon adsorbs bacteria, similarly to how GFO adsorbs phosphates? Interesting. I’m aware that bacteria can grow on it, but I wouldn’t think the carbon would actually adsorb bacteria.

I’m pretty skeptical, too. I need to see that paper.

Agreed! I find that hard to believe cause I’m running a zeo tank currently and dosing all sorts of bacteria and tropic Marin wants you to use carbon with zeo bac etc… seems to me that would defeat the purpose lol..

 

[Miami Reef]

Agreed! I find that hard to believe cause I’m running a zeo tank currently and dosing all sorts of bacteria and tropic Marin wants you to use carbon with zeo bac etc… seems to me that would defeat the purpose lol..

I actually have some questions about your zeovit journey. I just sent you a pm.

 

[bishoptf]

Has anyone confirmed if this works with Ostreo dino type, I am intrigued but for at least Ostreo we know that a UV works well but I like the idea of running without the UV. I know I need to turn off the UV if going to try this and read through all the pages of the thread but I didnt see anyone state that they had Ostreo and had this work. From most of the pics it looks like most have amphid but thought I would ask.

 

[REEFRIED!]

Hello all. I am about to try this carbon dosing method. I am going to use the vodka, vinegar, sugar mix. At least this way I can make a stiff drink with the vodka as looking at my tank is deflating.

A small background. My tank (120 total water volume) is only 8 months old. Started with dry rock and sand. I went no lights and only fish for 6 weeks. Turned lights on slowly and added a few frags. Slowly ramped up light duration, and intensity. Mostly duration at first as my first frags were softies, LPS. By about 4.5 months in I had 15-30 sps frags and had my lights dialed in (with par meter). Things looked great. I went through the common uglies and all progression was normal. About 5 months in I got Dino’s. Confirmed LCA, via microscope. I read about 259 pages of Dino threads. I decided that dosing silica was the safest and possibly the most reliable method. I tried a small blackout, (24 hours). Did nothing. Also worth noting that when I got Dino’s my nitrate was about 5ppm and my phosphate was low. 0.01. Which could just as well be zero. Both using Hanna checkers.

I first got my nitrate to 10-15ppm and like to try and keep my phosphate at 0.05-0.1. Which is considerably harder than keeping nitrate levels stable. Then I started dosing silica. I have been dosing for 6-7 weeks. I do not notice any difference. Originally my microscope sample was 95% LCA. 5% other random stuff. After 6 weeks of silica dosing the most recent sample is 90% LCA, 5% diatoms. Not the results I was hoping for. I do notice more brown film algae on the glass, but not sure it’s diatoms.

I am at the point where I was going to remove the sandbed. I actually started to remove some of it slowly last week. About 5% of total sand removed when I found this thread. It’s funny as people say they have “bad” Dino outbreaks then post pics and I chuckle. Mine is BAD. I will update this thread tomorrow as it is midnight here now. They cover 95% of my sandbed. The 5% being shaded areas under rocks, however they are there also just not as prevalent. They cover all rock work exposed to light and a lot of areas not exposed to direct light. They blow off the rocks easy enough with a turkey basted but come right back. I mean right back. I have many times stirred up/blown basted my sand bed. When I first start it looks amazing, for about 6 minutes!! By the time I get to the end of the tank, the place I started has visual Dino’s. The whole sandbed is populated an hour later. If I leave the sand alone within one week it is a complete mat of Dino’s. The part of the tank I removed sand from gets them in the bare glass. And if any random granules of sand blow over there they are covered in no time at all.

The Dino’s don’t seem to bother my sps and lps, but they drive my zoa’s mad. They are all just slowly melting. I had one frag darken up and start to stn. I tossed it. I have another that is starting to stn. In my head it was from overdosing silica although I have read enough that it is virtually impossible to do. I started dosing it slowly and slowly ramped up. It is probably one of a million reasons.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I will post pics of the most grotesque sandbed in the hobby tomorrow. And start dosing carbon tomorrow night. Worth a shot. I know my tank is not mature by any means and my microbiome is not fully established, but 5 months of battling Dino’s and they are only getting worse! I did add some established live rock from the lfs about a month and half ago. At this point most of my coraline has died off as it gets covered in Dino’s quickly.

 

[Beuchat]

I am at the point where I was going to remove the sandbed. I actually started to remove some of it slowly last week. About 5% of total sand removed when I found this thread. It’s funny as people say they have “bad” Dino outbreaks then post pics and I chuckle. Mine is BAD. I will update this thread tomorrow as it is midnight here now. They cover 95% of my sandbed. The 5% being shaded areas under rocks, however they are there also just not as prevalent. They cover all rock work exposed to light and a lot of areas not exposed to direct light. They blow off the rocks easy enough with a turkey basted but come right back. I mean right back. I have many times stirred up/blown basted my sand bed. When I first start it looks amazing, for about 6 minutes!! By the time I get to the end of the tank, the place I started has visual Dino’s. The whole sandbed is populated an hour later. If I leave the sand alone within one week it is a complete mat of Dino’s. The part of the tank I removed sand from gets them in the bare glass. And if any random granules of sand blow over there they are covered in no time at all.

Hi Reefried,

Dinos are more prevalent on sand because the lack of competence for space, but you don´t need to remove it. Any attempt to blow out the dinos (out of sand or rocks) will result in further propagation.

Just let them stay as long as they do not cover corals or other invertebrates. Star with a small dose ( I do not remember for vodka, vinegar, sugar) and gradually increase. You will see how dinos start to decrease.

Normally it takes around 2-3 weeks for a significative progress. If it does not works, use Red Sea NOPOX/Tropic Marin Elimi NP/Xepta NP Out. You will get a biofilm covering sump walls and mechanical filters. If you allow nitrate or phosphate concentrations drop to zero at any time, the method wont´work.

Good luck!

 

[Red2143]

If you allow nitrate or phosphate concentrations drop to zero at any time, the method wont´work.

How do you prevent zero? By dosing nitrate and phosphate? So it's a constant back and forth?

 

[Beuchat]

How do you prevent zero? By dosing nitrate and phosphate? So it's a constant back and forth?

For example. Also removing the skimmer cub, increasing feeding, etc .

 

[REEFRIED!]

Hi Reefried,

Dinos are more prevalent on sand because the lack of competence for space, but you don´t need to remove it. Any attempt to blow out the dinos (out of sand or rocks) will result in further propagation.

Just let them stay as long as they do not cover corals or other invertebrates. Star with a small dose ( I do not remember for vodka, vinegar, sugar) and gradually increase. You will see how dinos start to decrease.

Normally it takes around 2-3 weeks for a significative progress. If it does not works, use Red Sea NOPOX/Tropic Marin Elimi NP/Xepta NP Out. You will get a biofilm covering sump walls and mechanical filters. If you allow nitrate or phosphate concentrations drop to zero at any time, the method wont´work.

Good luck!

Thank you for the reply. I am starting the treatment tonight. Yes I have given up on blowing off sand. I leave it, occasionally the Dino’s mat, almost like Cyano and blow away. The sand is white for a couple hits and more populate it.

I will definitely try to keep nutrients elevated. Today my nitrate was 13.4ppm, and phosphate was 0.02ppm. Which is the +\- for the Hanna test so it may be zero. I dosed phosphate to get to 0.06 by tomorrow. I may have to keep dosing during carbon treatment. I hope this is ok? I will monitor and possibly remove skimmer cup, as I want to keep tank oxygenated.

Is it ok to leave UV on? I shut it off. Also I’m assuming g no water changes during treatment? And I am leaving my cO2 scrubber on, to keep PH up, is this ok? Also should I remove activated carbon?


I will update this thread.

 

[REEFRIED!]

Here are pics of the Dino’s today. I told you guys it was crazy!!! I chuckle when people say they have a bad outbreak and they have a few brown dustings on their sand!!!

 

[Beuchat]

Is it ok to leave UV on? I shut it off. Also I’m assuming g no water changes during treatment? And I am leaving my cO2 scrubber on, to keep PH up, is this ok? Also should I remove activated carbon?

UV is OK. NO water changes. Co2 scrubber is OK. Don´t need to remove activated carbon

 

[Beuchat]

Here are pics of the Dino’s today. I told you guys it was crazy!!! I chuckle when people say they have a bad outbreak and they have a few brown dustings on their sand!!!

Wow, that´s is really a good one! . Ensure to syphon out the dead ones

 

[REEFRIED!]

Wow, that´s is really a good one! . Ensure to syphon out the dead ones

I will wait a week or two then siphon. I will still baste the rocks off as I want to keep the corals happy.

 

[Miami Reef]

Here are pics of the Dino’s today. I told you guys it was crazy!!! I chuckle when people say they have a bad outbreak and they have a few brown dustings on their sand!!!

Wow. I can’t wait to see the turnaround.

 

[REEFRIED!]

Wow. I can’t wait to see the turnaround.

Fingers crossed. If not I’ll just drink my carbon solution.