REEFRIED!
Active Member
I thought of doing that. But I gave up and removed my sand. My hope is to beat these dang Dino’s and add sand back. Which I will definitely seed with something like you did.
How much is one pump?
Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment
- Thread starter Beuchat
- Start date
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How much is one pump?
beesnreefs
Well-Known Member
REEFRIED!
Active Member
Oh ok. I have. NP bacto balance in my BRS cart. (Waiting for Christmas to use a hopeful gift card!!). The one I put in my cart (500ml). Doesn’t show a pump top
1 pump = 1 mL according to the bottle
beesnreefs
Well-Known Member
Ahhh gotcha! How big is your tank? How old?
Battled them for months. Literally did almost every suggestion here. 3 day blackout, various bottled bacteria, copepod introduction, feed more, uv sterilizer, daily replacing of filter floss, stopping water changes etc.
While those all helped a bit the thing that finally solved my issue was increasing flow. They no longer settle in my sandbed and i only just see specks on my rocks now that i turned it up from 30 to 50% flow.
While those all helped a bit the thing that finally solved my issue was increasing flow. They no longer settle in my sandbed and i only just see specks on my rocks now that i turned it up from 30 to 50% flow.
beesnreefs
Well-Known Member
I’d definitely start on the low side of the carbon dosing. Better to dose lightly and slowly build up than risk a major bacterial bloom/bottoming out nutrients
bishoptf
Valuable Member
Eh I tried it, did it help or did the UV help, I dunno..still bummed after all these years we do not have better treatments than raise nutrients (which I agree help when things are 0 or are the 0 because of Dinos) and all the other things that go along with trying to out compete them. They have things covered but I still feel like we are in the dark ages, the mantra is out compete them with X or Y.
Really wish we could really fond some quick and effective treatments that you could do before you get them to keep them away or things you can do them once they have set up house and are quick to kick them to the curb. Lots of folks @taricha @ScottB and more have really good advice and guidelines but really wish we could figure out better/quicker ways to avoid them and or deal with them more effectively instead of the months sometimes it takes to deal with them...just another nuisance in the hobby to deal with.
thank you for always updating your tank for my feedback in these test forums. I've personally seen you consult every known method available in reefing for your invasion challenge and you kept the tank running to give each method its chance. Including rip cleans, you did them right too and it grew back. That's one viable set of cells dividing in the system for sure
Can you post updated pic as of today so curious to see
*did you ever reduce the lighting intensity = truly reduced and sustained eight weeks or so, a real cut back
Was wondering if you ever switched back from a lower light setting due to coral issues or was it due to not stopping regrowth
Are you still on the lower light intensity option vs when the invasion started
Can you post updated pic as of today so curious to see
*did you ever reduce the lighting intensity = truly reduced and sustained eight weeks or so, a real cut back
Was wondering if you ever switched back from a lower light setting due to coral issues or was it due to not stopping regrowth
Are you still on the lower light intensity option vs when the invasion started
bishoptf
Valuable Member
Tanks all good now, just took a lomg time to get there and they are still there i see them stringing on my halmedia from time to time. I have started newer tanks and had some of the same issues, maybe cross contamination or other but had issues in one tank even when i had high nitrate and high phosphate, which still makes you wonder what is the real drivers...
Attached is a pic from what it looks like today but have others that have had some and still continue to have some issues. The main difference now is i know what to put look for and different things to do but still a major hassle.
Attachments
Tropic Marin Plus-NP got them under control for me in a matter of days. Still have some visual indications of them in the tank though, trying to get across the finish line.
www.reef2reef.com
Tropic Marin Plus-NP to Combat Dinos?
I started to experience an outbreak of dinoflagellates a few weeks ago. The dinos started to worsen so I started looking in to what they consume to grow/multiply. In that thread, @taricha lead me to the @Beuchat Dinoflagellates Disruptive Treatment Article. There was a post by @Naturalreef in...
www.reef2reef.com
well it looks corrected. that's officially the hardest correction work I've ever seen in fact. I'd call that a save. so that's what persistence looks like
with a good dose of persistence like that, we can pretty much banish any invasion in reefing. you had been working on this in 2022 I recall and from humblefish's site. you were willing to work every method the right way then, it shows now. you worked until it complied, that's shocking work thread material for best practices options.
with a good dose of persistence like that, we can pretty much banish any invasion in reefing. you had been working on this in 2022 I recall and from humblefish's site. you were willing to work every method the right way then, it shows now. you worked until it complied, that's shocking work thread material for best practices options.
CBonito
Valuable Member
This is what I had and I beat it in 3 days.
It was getting all over everything and getting my corals pretty upset. It started in the sand and you cannot get rid of it. I let my diamond goby handle that, then it moved to the rocks and really got me mad.
I have about 90-100 gallons of water volume. My display is 3'x2'x12" tall 45 gallons. I have a decent sized refugium tank in back and a little below the display and a 36" sump too under the tank...just for mind-visual sake.
This stuff would look like it was almost gone every morning and then by lights out, it would be all over the place making bubble threads on my acros, covering my rock and sending me into borderline rage. No matter how many times I blasted it off the corals and rocks, it was back in a few minutes. So I sat and thought about it, read a million threads on it became discouraged, drank vodka and decided to just take up basketweaving instead.
I bought an icecap 27watt UV and plumbed it off my return manifold and feeding the refugium for simplicity sake. Don't worry about what type you got. You're gonna MAKE IT water-borne!
So I started letting it accumulate throughout the day, that's right...let it build up over the day! Don't turn the lights off...give them what they want and let them proliferate... And I waited until about a minute or two before lights out, and then I struck. lol
Hit that stuff with a big old turkey baster real hard. go through the rock work several times and make it fly! Theres going to be a lot of stuff flying around in the water and it will look pretty bad. Don't worry...keep blasting! Make sure to turn your pumps up and yes if you have SPS corals they slime like crazy from it which is good because they're cleaning themselves. Don't worry about them they're fine. Anyway, you want that overflow to be pulling hard so turn those return pumps up! Once the lights go out and the suspended crap has mostly gone down the overflow for a while, give a dose of peroxide in the typical 1 ml-per10 gallon thingy. Now wait about 2 hours...you're going to have a lot of that dino crap in your filter bags if you have them and if you use "reef teepee" dispensers, you MAY go through a roll...I dunno. lol
Whether it's the waterborne type or not, you have to blast it good man! Get it in the water and out of the tank to the overflow...TO THE UV which in my case was set to a slow flow rate of about 100-110gph which i guess is kind of kill mode. I think this is pretty important.
After the 2 hours have gone by since the peroxide dose, take the filter socks out and scrub them good. Make them white again and put them back.
Not sure if it matters, but I always feed live phytoplankton at night before I go to bed, and I continued with that.
It may be a variable or not. I'm treating it as not deviating from my norm.
Go to bed dummy, it's 3 in the morning!
Observe the following morning. The first morning after for me was questionable, but as the day drew to a close, I noticed there were slightly less total accumulations...the second day was even less. I saw a few bubbles here and there. Yesterday, I didn't notice anything and today it can be said they're gone. I mean, nothing blows off the rocks at all. I'm blown away how clean the tank is. Now bear in mind, I did the SAME THING each night. I didn't start drinking beer and rocking out when I noticed less. It's not party time yet. I repeated the process each night.
Don't mess with your sand!!!! Worst thing you can do! Get a diamond goby if you don't have one now. He will do it for you properly without disturbing the bacteria and weakening the allies...you are not eliminating the dinos entirely by doing what I did it would be harder to do that...What you're doing is forcing their "army" down to a size that another army in your tank can now handle so to speak. You'll be killing a lot of it yourself, but ultimately the tank will take care of the rest.
Try it...but follow the directions...if you have a UV, peroxide and a turkey baster, it's free right?
If you dont have a UV, quit putzin around and get one. Any one with a halfway decent reef with corals and fish they care about should have one. I'm a believer.
I did not add any chemicals, I do not have carbon or gfo in my house at all, and my photoperiod has been tweaked (intensified) for BETTER coral growth, but never turned off. They say no white lights...well whatever! No blackout period. No water changes, no dosing changes, no nothing typically asked during chemical treatment.
No black bag over my tank.
I'm not some expert elite reefer stud with a Marine Biology Degree here. I just know that if you kill a little more of something each day faster than it can recuperate, it will eventually DIE DIE DIE. And that is good good good! I don't know if one type of dino is more or less vulnerable to UV, but in my case the UV killed them, or they would have come right back like I repeated for a week before this like a helpless fanatic.
I am leaving the UV on duty for good because it seems like a good idea and I am also waiting on some Keys Live Mud for my fuge and Sand for my display from Florida Pets to increase the microdiversity in my tank. I think the reason this happened in my case is being an idiot who knows better and using fake rock instead of live rock, but that is only speculation. MOST of the tanks I see with this are fake rock tanks and that's usually where this stuff is the worst since there is no opposition to it.
Again, just try it and let me know how it works for you.
P.S. This shot has me PTSD-ing hard man...hehe. It's the "should I take all my sand out and start over?" look.
No, don't do that...my sand is like new today. immaculate.
It was getting all over everything and getting my corals pretty upset. It started in the sand and you cannot get rid of it. I let my diamond goby handle that, then it moved to the rocks and really got me mad.
I have about 90-100 gallons of water volume. My display is 3'x2'x12" tall 45 gallons. I have a decent sized refugium tank in back and a little below the display and a 36" sump too under the tank...just for mind-visual sake.
This stuff would look like it was almost gone every morning and then by lights out, it would be all over the place making bubble threads on my acros, covering my rock and sending me into borderline rage. No matter how many times I blasted it off the corals and rocks, it was back in a few minutes. So I sat and thought about it, read a million threads on it became discouraged, drank vodka and decided to just take up basketweaving instead.
I bought an icecap 27watt UV and plumbed it off my return manifold and feeding the refugium for simplicity sake. Don't worry about what type you got. You're gonna MAKE IT water-borne!
So I started letting it accumulate throughout the day, that's right...let it build up over the day! Don't turn the lights off...give them what they want and let them proliferate... And I waited until about a minute or two before lights out, and then I struck. lol
Hit that stuff with a big old turkey baster real hard. go through the rock work several times and make it fly! Theres going to be a lot of stuff flying around in the water and it will look pretty bad. Don't worry...keep blasting! Make sure to turn your pumps up and yes if you have SPS corals they slime like crazy from it which is good because they're cleaning themselves. Don't worry about them they're fine. Anyway, you want that overflow to be pulling hard so turn those return pumps up! Once the lights go out and the suspended crap has mostly gone down the overflow for a while, give a dose of peroxide in the typical 1 ml-per10 gallon thingy. Now wait about 2 hours...you're going to have a lot of that dino crap in your filter bags if you have them and if you use "reef teepee" dispensers, you MAY go through a roll...I dunno. lol
Whether it's the waterborne type or not, you have to blast it good man! Get it in the water and out of the tank to the overflow...TO THE UV which in my case was set to a slow flow rate of about 100-110gph which i guess is kind of kill mode. I think this is pretty important.
After the 2 hours have gone by since the peroxide dose, take the filter socks out and scrub them good. Make them white again and put them back.
Not sure if it matters, but I always feed live phytoplankton at night before I go to bed, and I continued with that.
It may be a variable or not. I'm treating it as not deviating from my norm.
Go to bed dummy, it's 3 in the morning!
Observe the following morning. The first morning after for me was questionable, but as the day drew to a close, I noticed there were slightly less total accumulations...the second day was even less. I saw a few bubbles here and there. Yesterday, I didn't notice anything and today it can be said they're gone. I mean, nothing blows off the rocks at all. I'm blown away how clean the tank is. Now bear in mind, I did the SAME THING each night. I didn't start drinking beer and rocking out when I noticed less. It's not party time yet. I repeated the process each night.
Don't mess with your sand!!!! Worst thing you can do! Get a diamond goby if you don't have one now. He will do it for you properly without disturbing the bacteria and weakening the allies...you are not eliminating the dinos entirely by doing what I did it would be harder to do that...What you're doing is forcing their "army" down to a size that another army in your tank can now handle so to speak. You'll be killing a lot of it yourself, but ultimately the tank will take care of the rest.
Try it...but follow the directions...if you have a UV, peroxide and a turkey baster, it's free right?
If you dont have a UV, quit putzin around and get one. Any one with a halfway decent reef with corals and fish they care about should have one. I'm a believer.
I did not add any chemicals, I do not have carbon or gfo in my house at all, and my photoperiod has been tweaked (intensified) for BETTER coral growth, but never turned off. They say no white lights...well whatever! No blackout period. No water changes, no dosing changes, no nothing typically asked during chemical treatment.
No black bag over my tank.
I'm not some expert elite reefer stud with a Marine Biology Degree here. I just know that if you kill a little more of something each day faster than it can recuperate, it will eventually DIE DIE DIE. And that is good good good! I don't know if one type of dino is more or less vulnerable to UV, but in my case the UV killed them, or they would have come right back like I repeated for a week before this like a helpless fanatic.
I am leaving the UV on duty for good because it seems like a good idea and I am also waiting on some Keys Live Mud for my fuge and Sand for my display from Florida Pets to increase the microdiversity in my tank. I think the reason this happened in my case is being an idiot who knows better and using fake rock instead of live rock, but that is only speculation. MOST of the tanks I see with this are fake rock tanks and that's usually where this stuff is the worst since there is no opposition to it.
Again, just try it and let me know how it works for you.
P.S. This shot has me PTSD-ing hard man...hehe. It's the "should I take all my sand out and start over?" look.
No, don't do that...my sand is like new today. immaculate.
Herbie's Reef
Active Member
been carbon dosing for about 2 months now, I no longer have dinos on my rock but my sand is absolutely covered with prorocentrum. I am currently dosing 25ml of a sugar water solution nightly, 8ml of NP-Bacto balcance, and using plus-NP to raise nutrients when needed. I stopped seeing any improvement after about 2 weeks of dosing. I am considering stopping this and moving to other methods, I know I get a massive amount of bacteria blooming each night as my glass has a bacteria film in the mornings and my ph now drops to 7.7 at night, before carbon dosing it was 8.0 at night. I am also considering continuing with the carbon dosing and attempting to increase it, the only thing is that I am already over double the amount of carbon dosing that Tropic Marin says should be the MAX daily dose for my system. I do dose many different bottled bacterias to to add biodiversity. @Beuchat what do you think? Should I keep increasing my carbon dose? Would it be safe? Or should I try other methods at this point?
fishface NJ
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translated: But dosing only NP-Bacto balance? don't you dose anything else? do you feed the corals?
been fighting LCA & SCA for the last month. 2 weeks ago i started silicate dosing. I will say that I have more diatoms but not enought to outcompete the dinos. have not done a water change in 1.5 months NO3 is up to about 25 but less than 50 Slaifert test. Since I'm dosing silicates the Hanna Checker for phophorus is not accurate on PO4 but I was at .1-.14 before dosing silicates. Going to the try the NO Bacto-Balance. What else do I have to lose if it works great if not then well on to something else.
Question should I continue to dose silicates? When I take a sample there are not a ton of dinos but maybe 20-30 max on the slide and probably 15-20 diatoms.
Question should I continue to dose silicates? When I take a sample there are not a ton of dinos but maybe 20-30 max on the slide and probably 15-20 diatoms.
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