Cycling an Aquarium

[brandon429]

Peter you can stop testing now it’s going to read as you interpret it like this for the life of the tank, you are done cycling, time to choose a fish disease protocol

no more api testing is needed for the life of this tank. Not even the nitrate, it’s not accurate enough to base decisions on.

next report: let us know how you’re prepping for fallow and quarantine

Imagine someone taking a fully ready running reef and posting cycle data every day it runs, we will be out to page 180 on its 180th day of life, all set here.

 

[PeterEde]

Peter you can stop testing now it’s going to read as you interpret it like this for the life of the tank, you are done cycling, time to choose a fish disease protocol

no more api testing is needed for the life of this tank. Not even the nitrate, it’s not accurate enough to base decisions on.

next report: let us know how you’re prepping for fallow and quarantine

not even Ammonia?I weent looking at the Seneye reef today?

 

[brandon429]

We don’t track ammonia in cycled reefs. For example Brews tank is cycled, like yours, he’s not testing for ammonia and nitrite

buying seneye is simply going to show you are done cycling

it’s a waste of money, I’ll let you continue on in full doubt mode here I’ve typed about fifteen times you’re finished cycling…focus on fish disease preps


specifically don’t go buy pet store fish and add them, thats skipping preps. Read fish disease forum place all focus on fallow and qt.

recap: your tank is full of coralline live rock many pounds of it all full of teeming life because it’s skip cycle rock, your tank is ready because moving that rock to your tank didn’t uncycle it

each of your new posts is about living coral or an animal in your tank: That means cycled
It didn’t mean the rock started over when you added the rock

it means you are done 100% cycling and can state in today’s ID posts: I have a cycled reef, what animal is this?


here’s your tank using the best live skip cycle rock I’ve seen

 

[brandon429]

I know it’s tricky to view ammonia and nitrite separately from parameters that can slowly drift out of spec like pH or calcium, but those two self balance from here on out. It’s biologically not possible for the reef to lose its control over ammonia if it stays wet and circulating


that should ease the testing concern, ammonia and nitrite are locked in and can handle shock absorber events like an over feed etc. if many fish die at once that’s a disease issue ammonia didn’t cause it

that api kit can’t help you reef any further. If you want to track nitrate buy a high quality nitrate kit to track it. Successful reefs are on this site running 160 ppm nitrate (Paul Bs tank) down to 1 ppm or less, any common zeovit tank runs that low on purpose

so with an acceptable running range of 1-160 ppm, you can see how tracking nitrate isn’t really going to do much for your reef.

 

[PeterEde]

I know it’s tricky to view ammonia and nitrite separately from parameters that can slowly drift out of spec like pH or calcium, but those two self balance from here on out. It’s biologically not possible for the reef to lose its control over ammonia if it stays wet and circulating


that should ease the testing concern, ammonia and nitrite are locked in and can handle shock absorber events like an over feed etc. if many fish die at once that’s a disease issue ammonia didn’t cause it

that api kit can’t help you reef any further. If you want to track nitrate buy a high quality nitrate kit to track it. Successful reefs are on this site running 160 ppm nitrate (Paul Bs tank) down to 1 ppm or less, any common zeovit tank runs that low on purpose

so with an acceptable running range of 1-160 ppm, you can see how tracking nitrate isn’t really going to do much for your reef.

Thanks Brandon. Appreciate your input.

Pretty certain 99% of the life that came on the rock is still alive. That says it all I guess

 

[brandon429]

Also agreed there’s nothing in writing to train us for skip cycling. At any pet store in the world it’s add bottle bac, add ammonia, use api to wait for all zeros


99% of all forum cycles advise the same way, you can see when you posted in the chemistry forum they thought you weren’t ready, nobody is trained to assess rock history as the initial scope of the cycle.

its only this new way from forums (and reef tank conventions) that knows there’s a subset of rocks we can employ to bypass the whole wait and test process



and some part of me thinks fish stores know this, but don’t tell it, because they wouldn’t sell as much bottle bac fifty times a day if they were honest about how skip cycle rocks work. In your case the great rock was added after the bottle bac dry start so it’s ok but trust me they’d have certainly sold you bottle bac for the ready rock anyway lol

 

[PeterEde]

Yes been dosing with stability from start.

 

[remus67]

Hi guys!
I hope it's the right topic to add some issues found in my own cycling process. I am encountering some odd values.
54 liters tank
6/7 kg live rock from 2 different places
hob skimmer and filter in place and running
temp. 25 Celsius
salinity 1025
Using Red Sea Reef Mature and testing kits, I have the following results:

Day 3
pH - 8.25
kH - 11
Ammonia - 1
Nitrite - 0.8
Nitrate - 40

Day 6
pH - 8.20
kH - 10
Ammonia - 1.2
Nitrite - 0.1
Nitrate - 20
My Seachem Ammonia badge is in alarm zone colour and, according with tests results it should be in toxic area, isn't it!?
Looks to me Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate values are confusing. I was thinking I have brought some dead organisms with the live rock...
Any thoughts?

 

[Lasse]

Hi guys!
I hope it's the right topic to add some issues found in my own cycling process. I am encountering some odd values.
54 liters tank
6/7 kg live rock from 2 different places
hob skimmer and filter in place and running
temp. 25 Celsius
salinity 1025
Using Red Sea Reef Mature and testing kits, I have the following results:

Day 3
pH - 8.25
kH - 11
Ammonia - 1
Nitrite - 0.8
Nitrate - 40

Day 6
pH - 8.20
kH - 10
Ammonia - 1.2
Nitrite - 0.1
Nitrate - 20
My Seachem Ammonia badge is in alarm zone colour and, according with tests results it should be in toxic area, isn't it!?
Looks to me Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate values are confusing. I was thinking I have brought some dead organisms with the live rock...
Any thoughts?

In day 3 - much of your nitrates (if not all) is because of your high nitrite concentrations. Nitrite in the water interfere with your nitrate readings. In day 6 - your nitrite interfere lesser - your nitrate readings are both real nitrate and interference of nitrite. I do not know the real interfering factor for Red Seas tests - but your results indicate that it is around 50. In your last readings it means that around 5 ppm of the nitrate reading is nitrite interference and 15 ppm is the real value.

Your ammonia have raised and probably because of to much adding of ammonia. I do not know how Red Seas maturing kit are supposed to work. you may need to read the manual. However - I would considering to stop dose from the maturing kit till ammonia drops to safe levels according to the seachem ammonia badge

Sincerely Lasse

 

[remus67]

Hi Lasse, thanks for input!
I strictly followed Red Sea's instructions. I.e. for days 4 and 5 I've just checked temp. and salinity (no adjustments needed) and added 1.5 ml NOPOX (50 l tank, half of 100 liters dose). Day 4, also added some RODI water (about 300ml) due to evaporation. That's it.

 

[Lasse]

This is difficult because IMO - if you have started to do after a certain method - you should follow it strictly. But what I have some difficulties with Red sea is their recommendations to use organic carbon (NoPoX) in the start and before the nitrification cycle is completed - in my world - it is counterproductive.

But to change method now - its not good - it can do more harm than good in the long run IMO. My recommendation will therefore be - follow your Red Sea plan strictly and comeback later on if it not work out the way they say.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[remus67]

I am too "young" in saltwater to afford to ask Red Sea what the heck they are doing! Nevertheless, according with their plan and timing, on day 10 I should add the cuc team! I have seriously doubts my parameters are going to accept that
Anyway, tomorrow is the 7th day and I am going to perform a water change, as per instructions. Will see what happens...

 

[Azedenkae]

I am too "young" in saltwater to afford to ask Red Sea what the heck they are doing! Nevertheless, according with their plan and timing, on day 10 I should add the cuc team! I have seriously doubts my parameters are going to accept that
Anyway, tomorrow is the 7th day and I am going to perform a water change, as per instructions. Will see what happens...

Lasse is right, the Red Sea method is indeed counterproductive to the ideals of cycling. I'll be honest, I don't think they actually understand how nitrifiers work at all.

The purpose of cycling is to establish nitrifiers, specifically those that are autotrophic. Red Sea is trying to do a bit too much by establishing denitrification too, but that can always be done afterwards. More importantly, nopox can just allow the growth of heterotrophs that compete directly with the nitrifiers, making it kinda counterproductive.

Personally I would never suggest the Red Sea Mature product to anyone. There are a lot of products on the market that are like that, and it is annoying.

Though I do want to ask - when you say live rock, do you mean like dry rock, live rock with plenty of living creatures, or kinda live rock but with macroorganisms dead/dying?

 

[remus67]

The Red Sea method is indeed counterproductive to the ideals of cycling. I'll be honest, I don't think they actually understand how nitrifiers work at all.

The purpose of cycling is to establish nitrifiers, specifically those that are autotrophic. Red Sea is trying to do a bit too much by establishing denitrification too, but that can always be done afterwards. More importantly, nopox can just allow the growth of heterotrophs that compete directly with the nitrifiers, making it kinda counterproductive.

Personally I would never suggest the Red Sea Mature product to anyone. There are a lot of products on the market that are like that, and it is annoying.

Though I do want to ask - when you say live rock, do you mean like dry rock, live rock with plenty of living creatures, or kinda live rock but with macroorganisms dead/dying?

Azedenkae, to be honest (being the first ever saltwater tank I'm dealing with), I am not sure I can identify a live rock with dead organisms! The rock arrived wrapped in wet paper. It wasn't dry, for what I can say. Anyway, I will attach a close-up picture with some newly forms (identified by others as zoas or palythoas) which are growing day-by-day. Not sure what else lives/dies inside the rocks thought...

 

[Azedenkae]

Azedenkae, to be honest (being the first ever saltwater tank I'm dealing with), I am not sure I can identify a live rock with dead organisms! The rock arrived wrapped in wet paper. It wasn't dry, for what I can say. Anyway, I will attach a close-up picture with some newly forms (identified by others as zoas or palythoas) which are growing day-by-day. Not sure what else lives/dies inside the rocks thought...

Gotcha, not all good. I guess my question was more of, the quality of the live rock - when you got them did they kinda have things die off or not.

Even when using live rock, my recommendation is still to cycle as usual with ammonia-dosing (to 1ppm). Since you already have ammonia, it'd be a matter of waiting for both ammonia and nitrite to drop to zero before dosing ammonia, and potentially then it'd just be a test of nitrification. At least, that's how I'd go about it.

If you want to be absolutely certain you will save as much (macro) life as possible, I'd recommend instead doing water changes to bring parameters down, then stocking the tank slowly instead. After all, the point of live rock (as opposed to dry rock) is also kinda to have enough nitrification into the system from the start as well. It also makes a lot of the Red Sea Mature Kit redundant.

 

[narkicu187]

Very useful info. Thank you.

 

[CRD23]

Very useful article. I just started cycling my first saltwater tank (40 g breeder). Provided lot of insights on why and what I should expect.

 

[Geebs19]

Not a new reefer here but I am cycling a new tank that’s replacing my old one. Started out with all new, nothing came from the old tank.
I’m about a month and a half in. Used bottled bacteria.
Ammonia -0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- somewhere near 50
ordered the Hanna nitrate kit to get a better reading, I hate reading colors.

my question is my nitrates have been staying very high. I’ve done 1 25% water change. And have brown algae with some patches of green. Pics below. Just curious if I’m doing something wrong ir on the right track.

 

[Freenow54]

Cycling a new aquarium.​

One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank goes through as it matures but this addresses the one most commonly discussed.


What is cycling?

The term cycling comes from the process known as the “Nitrogen Cycle”. When a plant or animal decays, or an animal expels waste, nitrogen is released. In our aquariums we initially see this as ammonia. Bacteria converts the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. When we have enough bacteria to quickly convert ammonia to nitrate, we say that our tank has cycled. This is deceiving because the process doesn’t stop at this point and it is never complete. For this reason we need to think of this as establishing a large enough bacteria population to support fish, not completing a cycle.


Ammonia is a waste product of a fish’s cellular activity which is expelled through their gills. If the ammonia in the water is higher than in their blood it cannot be released and builds up in the fish causing cell damage. Nitrosomonas bacteria use ammonia as food and convert it to nitrite.

Nitrite is also harmful to fish. In a fish, nitrites hinder the ability of its blood to carry oxygen. Nitrites are a serious issue in fresh water systems. The same receptors in a fish that would absorb nitrites have a higher affinity for chlorides. The chlorides in saltwater block nitrites from being absorbed and protects the fish in marine systems. We rely on a different species of bacteria, Nitrobacter, to convert nitrite to nitrate.

Nitrates are relatively harmless for fish unless it reaches very high levels. Nitrates leaves our tank in any number of ways. We get rid of it via water changes. Algae and some corals can consume it as food.

The last part of the cycle is when nitrate is converted to nitrogen gas. This is done by anaerobic bacteria inside porous rock or within deep sand beds. Not every aquarium has the necessary conditions for this to occur

What conditions do I need for the cycle to occur?

To provide a good environment for the bacteria, we only need to make sure they are wet, oxygenated, and the pH is between 6.5 and 8.5. They will grow best at a temperature close to where we keep our tanks however they will still survive and reproduce at temperatures between 45F and 100F. We also want to monitor ammonia during this process. If ammonia gets over 5ppm it can slow down the rate bacteria reproduce. Above 10ppm it can stall the cycle.


How does rock affect the cycle?

The rock in a marine tank is the core of its filtration system. We use porous rock to provide as much surface area as possible for bacteria to grow on. The water flowing around the rock brings the ammonia and nitrites to the bacteria. If the rock is large enough it may have anaerobic bacteria deep within it that can convert the nitrates to nitrogen gas.

There are many types of rock that are available in our hobby. I won’t get into all of the different types but I do want to address how dry and live rock impacts the cycle

Dry rock is just that. It is rock that has been dried out and has nothing alive on it. Dry rock can be “clean” where it is considered safe to put directly into an aquarium. If it is not clean it will need to be cured prior to use. Either way, it will not contain nitrifying bacteria. This isn’t a problem as nitrifying bacteria are everywhere and it would be impossible to keep them out of our aquarium even if we wanted to.

Live rock is rock that does have living bacteria on it. The main reason to use live rock is to speed up the cycling process. Just like with dry rock, not all live rock is ready to put immediately in an aquarium. For simplicity I am going to put live rock in 2 broad categories. If your live rock came directly out of a marine system and is kept submerged in quality water during transport you can put it directly into your tank. If the rock was exposed to air or shipped damp then it needs to be cured prior to use. The bacteria on this rock will be fine but other living things may have died and should be removed prior to putting it in your tank.

How do I feed the bacteria?

There are many different takes on this and it is largely a matter of opinion. So here are the most common ways from worst to best in my opinion.

Adding a fish – while it will work as an ammonia source, why would you make a fish suffer in an environment in which it can’t properly shed its toxins?

Ghost feeding – When you add food to the tank you are adding much more than just what breaks down to ammonia. While none of it will be a problem, other than possibly algae, this is an uncontrolled process.

Adding a shrimp – The shrimp will decay and create ammonia, but again, this is an uncontrolled process. How much ammonia will this add and how quickly? I don’t know.

Dosing pure ammonia – This is the only method I will ever use in the future. You can measure exactly how much you need to add to achieve a specific level of ammonia. You can measure just how quickly your bacteria consume it to judge the health of your bacteria population.

How do I recommend doing it?

I’m glad you asked! I’ll start from the point where the tank is set up, filled, has flow, and temperature is in the normal range. It doesn’t matter if you used live or dry rock.

I will either use pure ammonia or ammonium chloride to raise the total ammonia to 2ppm. I will test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates daily until ammonia is near 0ppm. I will then dose it back up to 2ppm while continuing daily tests. I will repeat this process in a smaller tank until ammonia goes from 2ppm to 0ppm within 24 hours. In tanks that are 90g+ that will be stocked slowly I will only dose to 1ppm ammonia after the initial dose and consider it cycled when it drops from 1ppm to 0ppm in 24 hours. This is to limit nitrates in larger tanks. Keep in mind that a 120g system that drops 1ppm in a day can support more fish than a 40g tank that drops 2ppm in a day.

But I still have questions!

Ok, let me see if I can answer some of the more common ones.


If nitrifying bacteria are everywhere, why are “bacteria in a bottle” products so popular?

Nitrifying bacteria are everywhere so that isn’t the problem. Some bacteria can double their population in 20 minutes. Luck would have it that these tend to be the more poisonous kind. Nitrifying bacteria are relatively slow reproducers and it takes between 8 and 24 hours for them to double their population. If you start with dry rocks it can take a month or two to produce enough bacteria to support even a few small fish. Using bacteria in a bottle instantly provides a larger source of bacteria to speed up the front end of this process.

My cycle went fine for 3 weeks but now it stalled, what happened?

It could be any number of things. Did you let your ammonia go to high? Do you have a pH issue?

Your nitrifying bacteria may be being outcompeted for resources with other bacteria and/or algae. They may process ammonia fine at first but they will eventually go dormant. When this happens, your cycle will stall until a more marine friendly bacterium reproduces enough to begin the cycling process again. Bacteria in your tank are in constant competition for food. Eventually the one best suited to your specific system will thrive.


Can I vacuum out too much bacteria by cleaning? Will cleaning my sand bed cause my tank to cycle?

No, you cannot hurt your bacteria population by routine vacuuming or water changes. These bacteria are very difficult to remove from solid surfaces and would be difficult to remove even with scrubbing.

If your sand bed is very dirty you may cause an ammonia spike that is larger than your current bacteria population can handle but you haven’t done any harm to your bacteria population.

Can I use old tank water to cut back on my new tanks cycle time?

You can, but it won’t help much. The majority of the bacteria is going to be growing on hard surfaces, not floating in the water. There will be some, however, so you will likely introduce a strain of bacteria into your new tank that will eventually work very well.

I never measured any nitrite during my cycle, is this a problem?

No, odds are this is not a problem. It is possible that you had a larger initial population of Nitrobacter bacteria (nitrite eaters) compared to Nitrosomonas bacteria (ammonia eaters). In this case the nitrite was processed to nitrate almost as soon as it was produced.

Another possibility is that you have a large population of Nitrospira bacteria. These bacteria convert ammonia into nitrite and then to nitrate within the same cell structure so the nitrite is never released into the water to be measured.

My tank has been empty for 6 months, did my bacteria starve?

No. It is almost impossible to starve bacteria. They will adjust their metabolism and reproduction rates based on the food supply. As the amount of available food goes down, they will process it slower and reproduce less. If they go without food long enough they will go into a cystic stage (typically around a year without food). Once food is available again it will take longer for them to recover from this stage but they are still viable.

This does not mean that your tank is ready for fish after sitting dormant for up to a year. Bacteria is part of the food chain and is consumed by many different organisms. Just because your bacteria didn’t starve doesn’t mean it didn’t get eaten or is still viable. Every aquarium will respond differently based on its unique biology.

Why can I add more fish to an older aquarium faster than a new aquarium?

Let’s say you have 2 identical aquariums set up one year apart. They both have the exact same number and size of fish and both have 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite. They must have the same amount of bacteria, right? Well, no. The older tank will have a larger population of bacteria that is processing ammonia at a slower rate. The younger tank will have a smaller population of bacteria with faster metabolisms. If you add new fish to the younger tank you need to wait for the population to increase which can take days. In an older aquarium, the bacteria only need to become more active which can happen in a matter of hours.

Absolutely Perfect. Love the question part as well. I used an article called How to Fishless Cycle a Tank with Pure Ammonia. I have been suggesting that to people who are just starting forever

 

[Freenow54]

Not a new reefer here but I am cycling a new tank that’s replacing my old one. Started out with all new, nothing came from the old tank.
I’m about a month and a half in. Used bottled bacteria.
Ammonia -0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- somewhere near 50
ordered the Hanna nitrate kit to get a better reading, I hate reading colors.

my question is my nitrates have been staying very high. I’ve done 1 25% water change. And have brown algae with some patches of green. Pics below. Just curious if I’m doing something wrong ir on the right track.

Maybe because you left your lights on. My article and BRS suggests same prevents the ugly phase while cycling