Bolus dosing

[areefer01]

Yes.

I knew if I spoke up on this thread, I would get accused of being on the payroll.

I didn't say that at all nor implied that. Please do not put words in my mouth. My foot is there more often than not but that isn't fair.

The reason why I pointed that out is because I found it strange that you are a bit over zealous in defending the method.

I personally do not care what hobbyist use as I do not pay a stipend to them so have no say. I'm sure some use it and it works. Just like moonshine, DSR, Triton, Berlin, Kalkwaser, AFR, or whatever. We all have different skill sets some of which mask the solution we choose.

For example I run a very high nutrient system with phosphates over 2.2 ppm and keep large colonies of Acropora. Is that All For Reef? Is it my feeding habits? Is it my deep sand bed? Lights? Never mind, we know it isn't the lights because those are Neptune SKY's. But you get the idea.

My point I guess is your passion about it is clear but it isn't changing any minds here that disagree with it. And I'm not sure why you are going to that extreme. In my opinion.

Hope your day is well.

 

[Mo.]

When you say it works, what does that mean, and what was it compared to?

It works- my corals are alive and growing.
Compared to withering and dying!

And also

Compared to the last thing I used- Kalkwasser. And then back to bolus after a few months.

I have used both for a few months at a time. I have given the reasons why I have switched back and forth before.

Both methods have worked for me. Standard balling worked too, so I could work out my daily alk dose and then convert that to a bolus dose.

Ultimately, I don’t think switching back and forth is a good idea.

I wish I knew more about trace element precipitation with Kalkwasser.

 

[Mo.]

Perhaps it contains some carbonate.

Exactly my thoughts, but apparently it was said that it didn’t. But I don’t have that first hand….in which case it puzzles me. As it definitely wouldn’t have hydroxide in it. So what else?!

The assumption was that for some unexpected reason bicarb alone can do it. I don’t know…..

 

[GARRIGA]

You know I bought the biggest delltec Calcium reactor, certain that I would be using it and it’s still brand new unused in my sump room. Next to the Kalkwasser tank!

Calcium reactor something I might eventually get. That's years from now, however but can't argue with the fact that's likely the most cost effective and post setup easiest to maintain sodium chloride free solution. Especially if effluent can pass through a Fuge as added co2 not what I seek. Can't give mine away and the leading indicator if I go Sticks. Airtight homes great for the electric bill but not air we breath.

 

[Mo.]

I didn't say that at all nor implied that. Please do not put words in my mouth. My foot is there more often than not but that isn't fair.

The reason why I pointed that out is because I found it strange that you are a bit over zealous in defending the method.

I personally do not care what hobbyist use as I do not pay a stipend to them so have no say. I'm sure some use it and it works. Just like moonshine, DSR, Triton, Berlin, Kalkwaser, AFR, or whatever. We all have different skill sets some of which mask the solution we choose.

For example I run a very high nutrient system with phosphates over 2.2 ppm and keep large colonies of Acropora. Is that All For Reef? Is it my feeding habits? Is it my deep sand bed? Lights? Never mind, we know it isn't the lights because those are Neptune SKY's. But you get the idea.

My point I guess is your passion about it is clear but it isn't changing any minds here that disagree with it. And I'm not sure why you are going to that extreme. In my opinion.

Hope your day is well.

It wasn’t you I was referring to it was pod01 post 594.

Bolus dosing

I can't do the whole hog with the bolus dosing malarky as my lights are already maxed out, which appears to be key to any perceived benefit. And here we go again…. Raising the light intensity is not a necessity. Especially if you’re already maxed out. But you’ve read the document and you’ve...

www.reef2reef.com

He got a bit personal but hey ho! As you can see I have thick skin.

Maybe I’m coming across as over zealous, but that’s because this thread has only had one way traffic and I was hoping a few would have tried it by now and we could have a serious discussion about its merits. That was my frustration- I know it works, I want to know why. And why my observations are contrary to what I think I should have seen in terms of alk and pH trends.

Going to the extreme is just to prove a point. I’ve done that many times in the past. Buck the trend. See what merits there may be. Not just follow the crowd.

I have a medical background if I see something that makes sense I like to know more about it. This makes a
Little sense to me, but only since I tried it.
I’m not in the German forums, otherwise I probably would have had it all explained by fellow German reefers by now….

 

[Pod_01]

Ok-

How many times did I say that I was not affiliated?!

Not sure what you mean by I have nothing to show?

I posted the pH curve, which I find interesting. I posted my personal observations. I also explained why I currently use Kalkwasser.

You can see my old tank thread here

Mo's 1000G SPS Tank

6ftx8ftx3ft Currently using ATI Hybrid Lights and the Aquaforest system. They are working extremely well for me. Please excuse the fish trap. After 4 years, my copperband has decided to eat some scans whilst I was away. Going to catch him for the sin bin! Cheers Mo Wow that is Amazing...

forums.reefcentral.com

and you can see My new one here.

Monster Build - Mo’s Reef 2

Hi, I’m about to build a new SPS system. The tank will be 8ftx 8ftx 27”. My last tank measured 6ft x 8ft x 3ft. I had a tank thread on Reef Central at the time. Here’s a photo of the old tank….

www.reef2reef.com

You will see I know how to grow a coral or two and have been doing it for some time.

Yes- many companies want me to be affiliated and I guess you can see why, but I have paid for everything I use
On this system.

I hope that clears that up.

I saw something interesting in bolus.

like it and I’m interested in hearing and learning a thing or two about why or how it works.

It not working is nonsense, because I have used it .

I’m happy to answer any questions about my system, but this thread is about bolus and why it works or why it doesn’t.

Cheers
Mo

Oh sorry mate,
I must have missed the post where you provide link to the article that discusses how Iodine provides protection from light. Feel free to point me back where you provided the link or article name or anything etc…
This is one of FM claims…
Please don’t tell me to look for it, that is not an answer.

Good to know that you have no affiliation with FM but honestly with some of the responses I was not so sure so I had to ask. Don’t take it personal I always ask questions like this, on a forum it is impossible to tell who is who…

As for the rest of the respons, was that aimed at me?
I don’t recall once question your reef keeping ability… If I did please let me know where I said it?

You posted one pH curve and I posted 3.
I see nothing special in any of them, but perhaps I am missing something. Maybe you can elaborate how BOLUS substantially improved your pH.

You use BOLUS, I use BOLUS but I see no gains in pH. The peak is same as before, with the lights on the initial ramp up is perhaps quicker. Fresh air makes most of the difference, that is my observation.

I see no drastic coral growth explosion.
I don’t like dosing peptides, especially when I don’t understand how my corals benefit from them.

 

[Mo.]

Calcium reactor something I might eventually get. That's years from now, however but can't argue with the fact that's likely the most cost effective and post setup easiest to maintain sodium chloride free solution. Especially if effluent can pass through a Fuge as added co2 not what I seek. Can't give mine away and the leading indicator if I go Sticks. Airtight homes great for the electric bill but not air we breath.

Nah- no need anymore.

Too many other methods that work. Choose one.

 

[Mo.]

Oh sorry mate,
I must have missed the post where you provide link to the article that discusses how Iodine provides protection from light. Feel free to point me back where you provided the link or article name or anything etc…
This is one of FM claims…
Please don’t tell me to look for it, that is not an answer.

Good to know that you have no affiliation with FM but honestly with some of the responses I was not so sure so I had to ask. Don’t take it personal I always ask questions like this, on a forum it is impossible to tell who is who…

As for the rest of the respons, was that aimed at me?
I don’t recall once question your reef keeping ability… If I did please let me know where I said it?

You posted one pH curve and I posted 3.
I see nothing special in any of them, but perhaps I am missing something. Maybe you can elaborate how BOLUS substantially improved your pH.

You use BOLUS, I use BOLUS but I see no gains in pH. The peak is same as before, with the lights on the initial ramp up is perhaps quicker. Fresh air makes most of the difference, that is my observation.

I see no drastic coral growth explosion.
I don’t like dosing peptides, especially when I don’t understand how my corals benefit from them.

Mate- maybe you should use a different method?!


You questioned my authenticity. The next step would be, as has already been done about others, to “show us your tank” - so I put my reefing cv out for you in case you had any other misgivings about me.

I’m just a passionate reefer that gets good results because I put the time and effort in and sometimes goes against the grain
To stimulate decent discussion.

Full stop.

 

[Mo.]

Oh sorry mate,
I must have missed the post where you provide link to the article that discusses how Iodine provides protection from light. Feel free to point me back where you provided the link or article name or anything etc…
This is one of FM claims…
Please don’t tell me to look for it, that is not an answer.

Good to know that you have no affiliation with FM but honestly with some of the responses I was not so sure so I had to ask. Don’t take it personal I always ask questions like this, on a forum it is impossible to tell who is who…

As for the rest of the respons, was that aimed at me?
I don’t recall once question your reef keeping ability… If I did please let me know where I said it?

You posted one pH curve and I posted 3.
I see nothing special in any of them, but perhaps I am missing something. Maybe you can elaborate how BOLUS substantially improved your pH.

You use BOLUS, I use BOLUS but I see no gains in pH. The peak is same as before, with the lights on the initial ramp up is perhaps quicker. Fresh air makes most of the difference, that is my observation.

I see no drastic coral growth explosion.
I don’t like dosing peptides, especially when I don’t understand how my corals benefit from them.

Btw mate.

If you have high ambient co2 levels then that trumps any method you use.

Try Kalkwasser
As per Chris Meckley.


Or open some windows and monitor your ambient co2 and then try bolus again. Or wack on an oversized skimmer and skim dry.

 

[Mo.]

For example I run a very high nutrient system with phosphates over 2.2 ppm and keep large colonies of Acropora. Is that All For Reef? Is it my feeding habits? Is it my deep sand bed? Lights? Never mind, we know it isn't the lights because those are Neptune SKY's. But you get the idea.

My point I guess is your passion about it is clear but it isn't changing any minds here that disagree with it. And I'm not sure why you are going to that extreme. In my opinion.

Hope your day is well.

Btw- how did you get your phos up that high. Big fish? Just feeding heavily.

Can I see the corals/ tank? You have a tank thread?

Cheers
Mo

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It works- my corals are alive and growing.
Compared to withering and dying!

That’s a low hurdle that I would certainly expect to be true.

I think the whole concept should be compared to some other timing of dosing of the same product. If bolus is not visibly improved over some other spread out dosing of the same product, then I see little reason to have it be a special method.

 

[GARRIGA]

Btw mate.

If you have high ambient co2 levels then that trumps any method you use.

Try Kalkwasser
As per Chris Meckley.


Or open some windows and monitor your ambient co2 and then try bolus again. Or wack on an oversized skimmer and skim dry.

Don’t forget algae.

 

[areefer01]

Btw- how did you get your phos up that high. Big fish? Just feeding heavily.

Hard to say. Dry rock, tank merger, not paying attention, rock or substrate soaking it up, not managing it, etc. I also started to feed hourly small portions with two frozen feedings. I keep a lot of captive bred or raised fish so they arrive small. Few large fish being pink square anthias and a gold lined rabbit.

Can I see the corals/ tank? You have a tank thread?

No build thread here. Here is a video from a few months back. I've actually moved some rocks around recently but here it is at 2.2 ppm of phosphate. I should note that I've lowered it as low as .36 using lanthanum chloride slowly and diluted. If I don't stay on top of it then whatever is bound is released and I repeat the dance...

My post is sort of derailing the thread. SPS on the middle to right side is a table efflo, montipora, and the large green is a acropora from Palau. Right side not as visible is a bunch of unknown sps, red planet, etc.

Edit: 7 year old tank. Started with ESV 2 part, switched to AFR for single head dosing. Both work great no complaints.

Cheers
Mo

Hope your day is well.

 

[Mo.]

Hard to say. Dry rock, tank merger, not paying attention, rock or substrate soaking it up, not managing it, etc. I also started to feed hourly small portions with two frozen feedings. I keep a lot of captive bred or raised fish so they arrive small. Few large fish being pink square anthias and a gold lined rabbit.



No build thread here. Here is a video from a few months back. I've actually moved some rocks around recently but here it is at 2.2 ppm of phosphate. I should note that I've lowered it as low as .36 using lanthanum chloride slowly and diluted. If I don't stay on top of it then whatever is bound is released and I repeat the dance...

My post is sort of derailing the thread. SPS on the middle to right side is a table efflo, montipora, and the large green is a acropora from Palau. Right side not as visible is a bunch of unknown sps, red planet, etc.

Edit: 7 year old tank. Started with ESV 2 part, switched to AFR for single head dosing. Both work great no complaints.





Hope your day is well.

Nice tank! Congratulations..

How do you dose the lanthanum?

Cheers
Mo

 

[Mo.]

Don’t forget algae.

If your nutrients are higher than you want.

 

[Mo.]

That’s a low hurdle that I would certainly expect to be true.

I think the whole concept should be compared to some other timing of dosing of the same product. If bolus is not visibly improved over some other spread out dosing of the same product, then I see little reason to have it be a special method.

Bolus, seems to give a higher pH as shown in the graph I posted of standard balling V bolus.

Also, I can’t quantify it, but I think my polyp extension was better when bolus dosing…. That could be wrong, it would need others with the same observation.

the pH graph definitely tells
Me that my alk has been dosed that day. That’s a nice trick.

I don’t think it’s magic, but I would personally use bolus over standard dosing. As the pH trends the same way every time I have tried it vs standard balling.

Not as high as Kalkwasser in my experience, but I guess kalk eventually runs out of steam unless you move to slurry dosing…..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Bolus, seems to give a higher pH as shown in the graph I posted of standard balling V bolus.

Also, I can’t quantify it, but I think my polyp extension was better when bolus dosing…. That could be wrong, it would need others with the same observation.

the pH graph definitely tells
Me that my alk has been dosed that day. That’s a nice trick.

I don’t think it’s magic, but I would personally use bolus over standard dosing. As the pH trends the same way every time I have tried it vs standard balling.

Not as high as Kalkwasser in my experience, but I guess kalk eventually runs out of steam unless you move to slurry dosing…..

Higher pH than what? That’s the big issue I have with the claims in terms of even understanding what is claimed.

Assuming it is all bicarbonate, there is no possible scenario that I can imagine where boosting alk from, say, 6 to 8 dKH each morning by bolus will be higher than the pH attained by keeping the tank at 8 dKH, but I certainly can imagine it to be higher than the same tank kept at 6 dKH.

 

[Mo.]

Higher pH than what? That’s the big issue I have with the claims in terms of even understanding what is claimed.

As I stated - Standard balling V bolus method dosing.

You can see it in the graph I posted.

I swapped from normal all day balling dosing to bolus and the pH gradually went up.

Assuming it is all bicarbonate, there is no possible scenario that I can imagine where boosting alk from, say, 6 to 8 dKH each morning by bolus will be higher than the pH attained by keeping the tank at 8 dKH, but I certainly can imagine it to be higher than the same tank kept at 6 dKH.

Also, I’ve just looked at the alk graphs. After dosing the bolus, the Alk does not shoot up. Only the pH does…..

Don’t ask me why. It’s just what the apex shows. But I was testing at 12pm and 8 pm.

 

[Mo.]

 

[Mo.]

You can see the alk is pretty stable (throughout the day) and the pH spikes.

I think this is the dilemma. Where does 600ml bolus of alk dosed at 10.30 go? It hasn’t boosted the alk reading. The alk was tested 5 times that day. I usually check it once a day.