Are my fish sick and if so, what is it??

alabella1 · Oct 5, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Wow - that is a LOT of expensive fish in one small tank and the Oreni and Choates are not really good at handling treatment tanks. Here is a wild idea: the tomini is relatively low value and is acting like a "typhoid Mary" in that it is producing a lot of theronts. What about putting it through a TTM protocol? I normally do not suggest those, but in this case, it would get that fish out of the QT for a time, and might even cure it enough to put it back in the copper.

Another option would be to set up a third QT.

Jay

I've done TTM before. I do have a couple more old tanks laying around so another QT is not out of the question. I'm just running out of room to keep them all, lol. What's the issue that the choati and the oreni have and how could I help them? The oreni has been in there for almost 30 days now moving him would not be the worst idea. I know I've unfortunately started his counter over again but since I plan to keep my tank fallow to clear it out, no rush or issue restarting timer on him. He is my single most expensive fish though so I would like to make sure he is kept safest. He's pretty big too... maybe 6" or so.

alabella1 · Oct 17, 2022

I know I haven't updated in a bit. Still fighting the good fight, trying to handle this bioload, keep these tanks clean, keep the copper level at 2.5, etc. It was not a great week. Female Angel passed on Thursday, cleaner wrasse on Saturday and this morning the male angel. Cannot wait for this round of QT to be over and I can do a fish or two at a time. This is stressful and heartbreaking all at the same time
.

Praying I make it to the end of this with no more deaths.

brandon429 · Oct 17, 2022

Alabella

I run large tank cycling threads on forums and we collect patterns that folks display in disease outbreak/cycle issues etc and study them

your thread here has valuable information for us regarding your initial disease expression, would you mind clarifying these questions:

from post #1, you had stated the tank was years matured, and clearly you never had any disease issues. I am to assume all those fish came mixed from a pet store, and all stocked items were not fallowed. Is it accurate to say that in the matured and unmoved state the original system was simply suppressing disease and then after it's move, that was disrupted? I'm trying to figure out the cause for your very first outbreak, it's clear the fish carried issues into the new tank/the rocks probably did as they didn't do a three month fallow

had you bought anything wet literally at all, from a pet store, and added it into your #1 post display before it was moved> I want to try and pinpoint whether you vectored something new in before the move, or was the tank fully stocked for years, nothing new added for years, and then after the move the first disease outbreak hit?

there is for certain a pattern emerging in home move posts where disease outbreak comes after disturbing a fixed tank that originally didn't follow any disease protocol preps. unless you added something new, and wet from the pet store in the weeks and months leading up to the first move, your tank appears to be in line with this emerging trend on home moves.

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

So thankfully no deaths in recent days, BUT, I'm worried about the Purple and Sailfin over in my second tank. It's just them and the female trigger now since I lost the angels. Copper is spot on. I just did a 50% change last night JIC it was ammonia, but the badge looks fine.

The tangs are both swimming on their sides and breathing heavy. What can I do.... I have everything on hand and can do whatever is needed. Oh, also the Purple tang is really losing a lot of his color. The trigger seems ok I guess... she goes up near the top quite a bit though. Oh and the tangs are not eating as viciously as before... or really at all. No pellets, no green or purple seaweed. It's weird and happened very suddenly after the loss of the angels.

#fishmedics

Sharkbait19 · Oct 18, 2022

Any chance the cramped quarters are causing the fish to start fighting each other?

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Sharkbait19 said:
Any chance the cramped quarters are causing the fish to start fighting each other?

They chase each other a tiny bit but right now both of them are acting exactly the same. I read on here the following method to try...

1. Decrease the temperature to 72F for most tropical fish.

2. Decrease the salinity to 1.017 or lower

3. Increase the oxygen saturation to greater than 150% by the addition of pure O2.

4. Turn the lights off

Any of this sound worth trying??

#fishmedics

Sharkbait19 · Oct 18, 2022

Is that as a particular treatment? I haven’t heard of that being done for anything.

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Sharkbait19 said:
Is that as a particular treatment? I haven’t heard of that being done for anything.

alprazo's "salvage protocol"

Reposted with permission. Salvage protocol for very sick fish. Almost daily I read a post from someone describing a fish sick from either ich or velvet and can predict that it will not make it to the morning. There are several techniques that can be employed to reduce the metabolic demands...

www.reef2reef.com

Sharkbait19 · Oct 18, 2022

Seems like it’s being done to slow everything down and reduce stress.
@Jay Hemdal - thoughts?

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Video of them...

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Purple is looking paler by the minute. What can I do??

#fishmedics

#fishmedic

Jay Hemdal · Oct 18, 2022

Sharkbait19 said:
Seems like it’s being done to slow everything down and reduce stress.
@Jay Hemdal - thoughts?

Yes, it’s triage to slow things down, but none of those measures will actually cure fish disease issues, so it only postponed things until you get a proper treatment started.
Jay

Jay Hemdal · Oct 18, 2022

alabella1 said:
Video of them...

All I can see in the video is that the water is cloudy, there is too much uneaten food, and the fish are breathing moderately fast. You need to siphon out all that food, do a water change test for ammonia and ensure the tank has good aeration. Trouble is, there is likely other underlying issues that don’t show in the video.

This thread is at 7 pages and covers a variety of issues in two, or is it three different tanks? I’m working so many active cases that I need to go back and re-read all the previous posts to try and figure out what you’ve tried already. Can you break things down into specific issues for us?

Jay

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Yes, it’s triage to slow things down, but none of those measures will actually cure fish disease issues, so it only postponed things until you get a proper treatment started.
Jay

Ok, so trying to do what I can to calm them down and hopefully it's just some sort of stress.

alabella1 · Oct 18, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
All I can see in the video is that the water is cloudy, there is too much uneaten food, and the fish are breathing moderately fast. You need to siphon out all that food, do a water change test for ammonia and ensure the tank has good aeration. Trouble is, there is likely other underlying issues that don’t show in the video.

This thread is at 7 pages and covers a variety of issues in two, or is it three different tanks? I’m working so many active cases that I need to go back and re-read all the previous posts to try and figure out what you’ve tried already. Can you break things down into specific issues for us?

Jay

Understood. I don't expect you to go back and read 7 pages every time. I'll try to lay out specifics when i have issues going forward. Just didn't want to clog the feed with 100 posts. The water is not usually that cloudy. I tried tonight to feed them frozen mysis but i soaked it in garlic and added a little selcon. Still not interested at all. Additionally i just had a desk lamp shining in the side so the video would have more light. After posting the video I did another 50% change and siphoned all waste out of there. I had also done 50% last night. So if it is ammonia related, hoping that will help.

Yes, 3 tanks - the 155g DT, a 20 long QT and a 24 QT. I also have a 65gal with all my coral which i have not moved any of to the new tank. DT is fallow and temp raised to 86.

So... to catch up. These tangs were in the DT 2 weeks ago and that's when i noticed the sailfin and the trigger had a good amount of white spots and or dust which you guys said looked like ich. I pulled everyone out and into QT they went. They are in a 24 gal fluval aio tank with a sponge in the back and nothing else. Eheim air pump with the two plastic bubblers. I also have a mighty jet return pump. Should be plenty of surface agitation. They've been doing well. They looked all clear, but the 2 angels that were in there with them died over the past week so now it's just these two and the trigger. They were doing so well and looked healthy and happy up until like yesterday or the day before. I'm ready to treat with absolutely anything, just let me know.

How long should I go with the temp low. Don't want to stress them. Salinity only lowered a little. Didn't want to go 1.025 all the way down to like 1.016 or whatever. I'll keep water changing everyday, whatever you think needs to be done.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 18, 2022

alabella1 said:
Understood. I don't expect you to go back and read 7 pages every time. I'll try to lay out specifics when i have issues going forward. Just didn't want to clog the feed with 100 posts. The water is not usually that cloudy. I tried tonight to feed them frozen mysis but i soaked it in garlic and added a little selcon. Still not interested at all. Additionally i just had a desk lamp shining in the side so the video would have more light. After posting the video I did another 50% change and siphoned all waste out of there. I had also done 50% last night. So if it is ammonia related, hoping that will help.

Yes, 3 tanks - the 155g DT, a 20 long QT and a 24 QT. I also have a 65gal with all my coral which i have not moved any of to the new tank. DT is fallow and temp raised to 86.

So... to catch up. These tangs were in the DT 2 weeks ago and that's when i noticed the sailfin and the trigger had a good amount of white spots and or dust which you guys said looked like ich. I pulled everyone out and into QT they went. They are in a 24 gal fluval aio tank with a sponge in the back and nothing else. Eheim air pump with the two plastic bubblers. I also have a mighty jet return pump. Should be plenty of surface agitation. They've been doing well. They looked all clear, but the 2 angels that were in there with them died over the past week so now it's just these two and the trigger. They were doing so well and looked healthy and happy up until like yesterday or the day before. I'm ready to treat with absolutely anything, just let me know.

How long should I go with the temp low. Don't want to stress them. Salinity only lowered a little. Didn't want to go 1.025 all the way down to like 1.016 or whatever. I'll keep water changing everyday, whatever you think needs to be done.

Are the tangs being treated with anything?
The low temp and low salinity just buys you some time, it isn’t a treatment in itself.
Jay

alabella1 · Oct 19, 2022

@Jay Hemdal, They have been in Copper Power for 2 weeks now. Looking a tiny bit better today, but still refuse to eat. Trigger still fine and eating fine. Tangs still breathing somewhat heavy and the purple is constantly going in and out of color.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 19, 2022

alabella1 said:
@Jay Hemdal, They have been in Copper Power for 2 weeks now. Looking a tiny bit better today, but still refuse to eat. Trigger still fine and eating fine. Tangs still breathing somewhat heavy and the purple is constantly going in and out of color.

What is the current level of copper?
Jay