Apex conversion to GHL

[LostSoul]

I have a question if you have the time. I have had a KHD for about 3 or 4 years now. Out of that time i have only had it on a tank for about a year. I could never get it to read steady. Replaced the probe, sent it in to be looked at, moved it to different areas of the tank and sump, i have feed it wagu steak. Nothing i have ever done have i been able to eliminate the unstable readings. By unstable i will say .5 to 1 dkh jump. Sometimes it will read stable for about 2 days and then jump and come down to a number that is higher than the previous and then fall back to that number.

I question the science behind this thing. If it measured based on X amount of reagent to get the probe to a particular PH value. How does it do this when you have a naturally fluctuating PH in your tank. My ph will jump just like anyone elses. Any points and or temps.

 

[Billldg]

I have a question if you have the time. I have had a KHD for about 3 or 4 years now. Out of that time i have only had it on a tank for about a year. I could never get it to read steady. Replaced the probe, sent it in to be looked at, moved it to different areas of the tank and sump, i have feed it wagu steak. Nothing i have ever done have i been able to eliminate the unstable readings. By unstable i will say .5 to 1 dkh jump. Sometimes it will read stable for about 2 days and then jump and come down to a number that is higher than the previous and then fall back to that number.

I question the science behind this thing. If it measured based on X amount of reagent to get the probe to a particular PH value. How does it do this when you have a naturally fluctuating PH in your tank. My ph will jump just like anyone elses. Any points and or temps.

Ph should not effect the KHD. I have found that if the pumps are not properly calibrated or air bubbles are in the feed line they can cause it to read wrong. I would start by calibrating the pumps again and fill you sample line, making sure their are no bubbles in the line and then remove it and measure the amount of water that comes out and manually put that value in. @Ditto, @Vinny@GHLUSA, any other ideas to help

 

[LostSoul]

Ph should not effect the KHD. I have found that if the pumps are not properly calibrated or air bubbles are in the feed line they can cause it to read wrong. I would start by calibrating the pumps again and fill you sample line, making sure their are no bubbles in the line and then remove it and measure the amount of water that comes out and manually put that value in. @Ditto, @Vinny@GHLUSA, any other ideas to help

Thank you for responding. i have gone back and forth with Vinny for what seems like years. So no air, everything is calibrated. its calibrated so much as i have gone in and put 8 ml for the sample line. filled sample line to 8 ml (with graduated cylinder and cut off any tube that was in excess. Because you cant put in 8.5 it has to be a solid number. I was just curious if you had an aha idea.

But let me cicle back to my question about the PH. If the ph probe is measuring how much of x it takes to lower to a particular ph. Wouldn't the ph of what is going in affect it becuase it would take more or less of x to get it down?

 

[Billldg]

Thank you for responding. i have gone back and forth with Vinny for what seems like years. So no air, everything is calibrated. its calibrated so much as i have gone in and put 8 ml for the sample line. filled sample line to 8 ml (with graduated cylinder and cut off any tube that was in excess. Because you cant put in 8.5 it has to be a solid number. I was just curious if you had an aha idea.

But let me cicle back to my question about the PH. If the ph probe is measuring how much of x it takes to lower to a particular ph. Wouldn't the ph of what is going in affect it becuase it would take more or less of x to get it down?

WELL, their has to be a solution, I have no doubt, WE just need to help you figure it out. I am still learning the system, and thus, have limited knowledge. Lets see if @Ditto and @Vinny@GHLUSA either has another solution, or maybe it can be past on further down the chain of GHL members that are smarter than use. As far as PH, I am not a chemist, and thus, can't give you an honest answer on it effecting it or not. That may be something you will need to ask Randy Holmes on the Chemistry forum for a Chemist by trade answer. One thing I learned is that GHL will not give up on helping you.

 

[Ditto]

That is a science question I have an idea how to answer it but do not want to be wrong so did ask someone else. But can also say my PAB swings because I have a CO2 scrubber and my KH Director stays steady between .2 and .3 6 test per day. If I drop it down to 2 I do see larger swings .5 but also expected. I am dosing 24 times a day.

 

[Billldg]

I said I would need to take a step back for a while to honestly compare GHL...WELL...this is true, but I can't stay back from posting about helping others in their GHL venture into a great reefing controller venture. Below is a small thing I noticed about the GHL Dashboard that I felt was frustrating initially, that is until I opened up my mind and started to reprogram it to the GHL way.

When adding sensors to the chart you have to remember that their is not a save button, you have to click on the + sign to save it. Below are some pictures of what I am talking about. I will hopefully help you personalize you Dashboard as well in the process.

The picture below is my current GHL dashboard:

You see the brush on the top right, click on it to open the tools to rearrange and personalize your Dashboard.

Now, do you see the + sign, if you click on it, that is how you can add tiles to your Dashboard.

The Cross symbol allows you to move the tile anywhere you want, the trash can symbol is obvious, lol, the pound sign will allow you to change the size of the tile, and the brush will allow you to add sensors and such, if available to the tile.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Great thread bill, thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Clo]

@Billdogg Ok, but can be nosey and ask why the BRS/Neptune merger initially made you feel like you couldn't be impartial?

 

[Billldg]

@Billdogg Ok, but can be nosey and ask why the BRS/Neptune merger initially made you feel like you couldn't be impartial?

LOL...you are kinda putting me between a rock and a hard place being a man of principal and a Mod.

I have always respected the videos that BRS put out, they are truly a wealth of knowledge to help reefers out. They helped me out when I was scared to get into this hobby. I watched their videos for roughly a year before I felt confident enough to jump into this hobby, This is coming from a person that is pigheaded and has no issue jumping into something. Saying that, I am only that hardheaded when I understand something about what I am going into. Doing this conversion, and paying a small fortune to bring this honest comparison to the reefers that can't afford it, I was HONESTLY hoping that BRS would do it for me. They have the resources and time to do it properly, I DON'T!!! I was hoping that they would do a honest comparison since they have the time. I truly respect what BRS has done in the hobby, but I felt let down as I have constantly supported them and defended them. To put it simply, as a @Bulk Reef Supply diehard supporter and defender, I feel a little betrayed. It may be my own self ignorance, I am not perfect, but still. I feel that we can no longer trust what they say because it would be like Neptune doing aa honest comparison on GHL, or Ecotech on Sicce, or Hanna on any tester. I truly hope I am wrong in this, I really DO!!!

I am a passionate person, and thus, react off of my feelings at that givin time. When you are leanign towards one or the other, you can not be impartial. That is what I truly wanted in this comparison so no one can complain.

 

[Clo]

I think those are valid concerns I have, I've kind of always taken BRS videos with a grain of salt because they're still a merchant after all. I think Thomas's videos are the best, like the quick down and dirty of certain products.

I'm wondering how much harder it will become to get GHL products in the US if/when BRS decides to stop carrying them. Technically with the merger, they have no incentive to carry their competitor's products... And, I feel like I have not seen a single BRS GHL profilux only focused video, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Billldg]

I think those are valid concerns I have, I've kind of always taken BRS videos with a grain of salt because they're still a merchant after all. I think Thomas's videos are the best, like the quick down and dirty of certain products.

I'm wondering how much harder it will become to get GHL products in the US if/when BRS decides to stop carrying them. Technically with the merger, they have no incentive to carry their competitor's products... And, I feel like I have not seen a single BRS GHL profilux only focused video, but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think getting GHL products will be an issue. GHL is also aware of what just happen, and will find a way to take care of US GHL reefers. As far as any GHL BRS videos, their are none, and now you are starting to understand my problem. Dealing with GHL, I quickly found that they are still about the reefer, not the bottom line.

The funny thing is, most people have complained about Thomas. I kinda like him as he is active and funny and quirky, LOL!!!

 

[RobB'z Reef]

LOL...you are kinda putting me between a rock and a hard place being a man of principal and a Mod.

I have always respected the videos that BRS put out, they are truly a wealth of knowledge to help reefers out. They helped me out when I was scared to get into this hobby. I watched their videos for roughly a year before I felt confident enough to jump into this hobby, This is coming from a person that is pigheaded and has no issue jumping into something. Saying that, I am only that hardheaded when I understand something about what I am going into. Doing this conversion, and paying a small fortune to bring this honest comparison to the reefers that can't afford it, I was HONESTLY hoping that BRS would do it for me. They have the resources and time to do it properly, I DON'T!!! I was hoping that they would do a honest comparison since they have the time. I truly respect what BRS has done in the hobby, but I felt let down as I have constantly supported them and defended them. To put it simply, as a @Bulk Reef Supply diehard supporter and defender, I feel a little betrayed. It may be my own self ignorance, I am not perfect, but still. I feel that we can no longer trust what they say because it would be like Neptune doing aa honest comparison on GHL, or Ecotech on Sicce, or Hanna on any tester. I truly hope I am wrong in this, I really DO!!!

It's possible they could do it without compromising themselves. It just takes a different mindset. It doesn't have to always be one or the other really. Like the good, better, best approach. Except in this scale best isn't necessarily best. Take cars for example, a Kia will get you from A to B just like a BMW or Tesla will. All of them have things they do well or not well and some arguably better or worse in comparison. But at far different price points. Each of us as consumers has to decide where the value proposition lies. Given unlimited funds everyone with few exceptions will get a gold plated version of a thing that fundamentally does what far less versions do with stated compromises. Not sure if I'm effectively communicating my thoughts but there's a line to be walked there. Now if they have the integrity and the vision to walk it, they'd gain and/or retain reefers trust across the board. Ryan might have that, but I seriously doubt Bertram does.

 

[Ditto]

I think those are valid concerns I have, I've kind of always taken BRS videos with a grain of salt because they're still a merchant after all. I think Thomas's videos are the best, like the quick down and dirty of certain products.

I'm wondering how much harder it will become to get GHL products in the US if/when BRS decides to stop carrying them. Technically with the merger, they have no incentive to carry their competitor's products... And, I feel like I have not seen a single BRS GHL profilux only focused video, but maybe I'm wrong.

GHL has a warehouse that they ship products from if you order directly from them in the United States. They expanded and moved it before COVID happen.

 

[Clo]

GHL has a warehouse that they ship products from if you order directly from them in the United States. They expanded and moved it before COVID happen.

Thanks for letting me know!
I plan to buy the Profilux and KHD from my LFS though since they've been good to me. I may get leak sensors and expansions through GHL directly though.

 

[LostSoul]

WELL, their has to be a solution, I have no doubt, WE just need to help you figure it out. I am still learning the system, and thus, have limited knowledge. Lets see if @Ditto and @Vinny@GHLUSA either has another solution, or maybe it can be past on further down the chain of GHL members that are smarter than use. As far as PH, I am not a chemist, and thus, can't give you an honest answer on it effecting it or not. That may be something you will need to ask Randy Holmes on the Chemistry forum for a Chemist by trade answer. One thing I learned is that GHL will not give up on helping you.

Guess I will wait and see. I bought another KHD in hopes it would work better. However after realizing the parts are nothing more than a ph probe, mixing motor and mother board (dosing pumps separate). I don't think that a new KHD is going to fix those issues. Next step is to tear apart the motors in the dosing pumps and see if that cleaning will help.

 

[vangvace]

It's possible they could do it without compromising themselves. It just takes a different mindset. It doesn't have to always be one or the other really. Like the good, better, best approach. Except in this scale best isn't necessarily best. Take cars for example, a Kia will get you from A to B just like a BMW or Tesla will. All of them have things they do well or not well and some arguably better or worse in comparison. But at far different price points. Each of us as consumers has to decide where the value proposition lies. Given unlimited funds everyone with few exceptions will get a gold plated version of a thing that fundamentally does what far less versions do with stated compromises. Not sure if I'm effectively communicating my thoughts but there's a line to be walked there. Now if they have the integrity and the vision to walk it, they'd gain and/or retain reefers trust across the board. Ryan might have that, but I seriously doubt Bertram does.

They could, but they also long pause and show great hesitance when GHL is mentioned on their livestreams and steer back to their preferred product. Ryan seemed against carrying any other controllers because he didn't/doesn't see a need for overlapping products. (Cannot fault him for that sound logic) Even before the Trident was out and the carried the KHD there wasn't any mention of it while pushing the Hanna checkers. (Not that the Hanna checkers are bad mind you)

In a good, better, best... would you trust Kia if they said their product was the best 95% of the time without an actual test drive of competitors? Its a tough spot to be.

Thanks for letting me know!
I plan to buy the Profilux and KHD from my LFS though since they've been good to me. I may get leak sensors and expansions through GHL directly though.

It should also be noted that BRS only very recently started offering most of the GHL line. Before then it was just doser pumps and the KHD.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

They could, but they also long pause and show great hesitance when GHL is mentioned on their livestreams and steer back to their preferred product.

Well sure, some of that may be due to Ryan having a preference (he's a reefer, we all have one - note the rampant fanboy cults across this forum) so you can't fault him for that. It is hard however to separate that from where Bertram is interdicting internally within to drive profits and customer focus. I mean Amazon has house brands too, you just have to make a choice, be spoon fed or make your own conclusions. That they did at least start carrying them means they are listening to some extent to the customer base. It's ok for them to say our house brand is the best, because they are invested and they take pride. why invest in something you believe isn't the best right? They can however simply realize we're all smart ppl and show everything out there and let us decide. All interesting thought exercises...

In a good, better, best... would you trust Kia if they said their product was the best 95% of the time without an actual test drive of competitors?

I'm not sure that's where i was going with that. perhaps it wasn't the best analogy maybe this, that or the other and refrain from grading at all? Here is the strengths and weaknesses of each and the price point. you decide.

 

[vangvace]

Well sure, some of that may be due to Ryan having a preference (he's a reefer, we all have one - note the rampant fanboy cults across this forum) so you can't fault him for that. It is hard however to separate that from where Bertram is interdicting internally within to drive profits and customer focus. I mean Amazon has house brands too, you just have to make a choice, be spoon fed or make your own conclusions. That they did at least start carrying them means they are listening to some extent to the customer base. It's ok for them to say our house brand is the best, because they are invested and they take pride. why invest in something you believe isn't the best right? They can however simply realize we're all smart ppl and show everything out there and let us decide. All interesting thought exercises...

Definitely interesting to think about. Watching their view on controllers from the 52 weeks of reefing compared to their newer subtle product push content like the BRS 160 that makes the how to guides or "investigates" videos possible. When they push a brand, like say Pentair UV for example, they only carried and talked about that one product... well who else makes UV products and how is their quality?

I'm not sure that's where i was going with that. perhaps it wasn't the best analogy maybe this, that or the other and refrain from grading at all? Here is the strengths and weaknesses of each and the price point. you decide.

I took it as one of their recent marketing turns (good, better, best) and rolled with it. I think the strength and weaknesses method is cleaner; similar to the quick equipment guides they are currently producing.

 

[rtparty]

I bet we see some BRS GHL videos in the near future

 

[LostSoul]

Guess I will wait and see. I bought another KHD in hopes it would work better. However after realizing the parts are nothing more than a ph probe, mixing motor and mother board (dosing pumps separate). I don't think that a new KHD is going to fix those issues. Next step is to tear apart the motors in the dosing pumps and see if that cleaning will help.

so tore apart the doser last night cleaned it all up. still having issues. Went ahead and bought the Alkatronic last night. Such a shame. this was 3 days. nothing being dosed.