ANOTHER THREAD - SETTING HEATER CONTROL IS ABSURD!

[BeanAnimal]

So you don't have a problem with dismissing somebody as "dumb" and "moronic" without knowing the accuracy and/or context of the quote? Methinks you are the one being insulting.

The irony is palpable. You have verbally attacked and insulted me and called me argumentative based on my response to another person’s citation of a quote, accurate or not. You do so without knowing the accuracy of the quote yourself (the irony).

A simple apology would be appropriate.

To answer your begged question. I called the sentiment of the quote dumb, not the person, because it is.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The problem I have is that one would expect the hysteresis to be +/- equal amounts from nominal for the Heater Function and GHL states as such, but my testing has proven otherwise. This just seems to get glossed over and not addressed. See posts in thread quoted below.

I see no issue with using the terms nominal and hysteresis.

Interesting. In my testing I did not see that but was more focused on cooling difference on/off point and have not had a chance to actually look at heating.

 

[Lucas815]

For accuracy, I managed to find the BRS video I was talking about.

It's about the Vertex Cerebra controller, from 8 years ago.

The interesting part start at about 1 minute and goes on for a couple minutes.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank you very much for posting!

“If in today’s environment your product testers requested instructions, you failed and should probably start over”.

I stand by my comments, his take is ridiculous in context to any system beyond the most basic, be it an aquarium controller, lawn irrigation system or 3D printer or new car.

Intertwined with the filler and platitudes (it is aimed at sales after all) he does make some good points that may not be evident. The most outstanding is that “anything” can be done. The context (not intended) here is the size of the market and cost to “get it done”. He also mentions expectations several times… we all have expectations but reality often doesn’t fulfill them.

The story arc of the Vertex Cererbra promises vs reality (and BRS infomercial) case in point.

Overall his general point (better UIs are better) is obvious but sound. However, some of the statements used to frame the point are just silly.

Thanks again for posting.

 

[Lucas815]

Thank you very much for posting!

“If in today’s environment your product testers requested instructions, you failed and should probably start over”.

I stand by my comments, his take is ridiculous in context to any system beyond the most basic, be it an aquarium controller, lawn irrigation system or 3D printer or new car.

Intertwined with the filler and platitudes (it is aimed at sales after all) he does make some good points that may not be evident. The most outstanding is that “anything” can be done. The context (not intended) here is the size of the market and cost to “get it done”. He also mentions expectations several times… we all have expectations but reality often doesn’t fulfill them.

Overall his general point is sound, but some of the statements used to frame the point are just silly.

Thanks again for posting.

Its far from impossible to make a complex system intuitive to use, but I do agree it's an extra hard engineering challenge to do so, on top of the challenge of actually making the product work at all.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Did anyone read my post further above, and the manual for which I posted the link? At all?

Oh boy, what a useless discussion. Hysteresis can be explained simple and plain:

The difference between upper and lower switching point.

If this is too much to understand then I really would recommend to look into other options.

Also in the manual is mentioned, that the hysteresis for the temperature control is special and includes also the switching points of the substrate heater to ensure that it - in case it is present - runs with priority.

The cooling difference has been introduced to avoid that heater and chillers run in competition!

Again - RTFM if you want to know the details

Or, even better:
Just set your desired temperature and leave it alone, if you must then adjust the hysteresis to your liking, who cares if the lower switching point is 77.9 or 77.8 degree as long as the set temperature is IN AVERAGE met by the actual temp.?

this is definitely the last reply in this time consuming leading to nowhere completely useless thread, I am sorry but we are all very busy with developing new products, implementing new functions and improve everything on a daily basis

 

[BeanAnimal]

Its far from impossible to make a complex system intuitive to use, but I do agree it's an extra hard engineering challenge to do so, on top of the challenge of actually making the product work at all.

Anything is possible within reason. There are numerous limiting factors but most point back to money. This is a very small market. As much as I dislike the GHL dashboard, I think the overall product is solid, as is the programming interface.

I think some of the manual could be improved. I would not argue that there is no room for improvement in the UI organization or wording, that would be silly. I just don’t think it is complicated and the time (money) would be better spent on the dashboard, API and other long (my opinion) overdo needs.

 

[KStatefan]

Did anyone read my post further above, and the manual for which I posted the link? At all?

Oh boy, what a useless discussion. Hysteresis can be explained simple and plain:

The difference between upper and lower switching point.

If this is too much to understand then I really would recommend to look into other options.

Also in the manual is mentioned, that the hysteresis for the temperature control is special and includes also the switching points of the substrate heater to ensure that it - in case it is present - runs with priority.

The cooling difference has been introduced to avoid that heater and chillers run in competition!

Again - RTFM if you want to know the details

Or, even better:
Just set your desired temperature and leave it alone, if you must then adjust the hysteresis to your liking, who cares if the lower switching point is 77.9 or 77.8 degree as long as the set temperature is IN AVERAGE met by the actual temp.?

this is definitely the last reply in this time consuming leading to nowhere completely useless thread, I am sorry but we are all very busy with developing new products, implementing new functions and improve everything on a daily basis

Multiple customers of GHL have made suggestions in this thread for an improvement and you just told them to pound sand.

 

[ingchr1]

Interesting. In my testing I did not see that but was more focused on cooling difference on/off point and have not had a chance to actually look at heating.

You probably have seen this new thread already, but my observations align with it.

ANOTHER ANOTHER THREAD - SETTING HEATER CONTROL COULDN'T BE EASIER WITH A PROFILUX

So, instead of getting more involved in endless discussions about hysteresis, nominal values, resulting switching points, alarms, how great it is to enter code instead of just adjusting a few settings, etc. pp I decided to spend a few hours in adding a new feature in our software. It works...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Herbster]

The irony is palpable. You have verbally attacked and insulted me and called me argumentative based on my response to another person’s citation of a quote, accurate or not. You do so without knowing the accuracy of the quote yourself (the irony).

A simple apology would be appropriate.

To answer your begged question. I called the sentiment of the quote dumb, not the person, because it is.

If I was allowed to quote the baby from 'Meet the Fockers', I would.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You probably have seen this new thread already, but my observations align with it.

ANOTHER ANOTHER THREAD - SETTING HEATER CONTROL COULDN'T BE EASIER WITH A PROFILUX

So, instead of getting more involved in endless discussions about hysteresis, nominal values, resulting switching points, alarms, how great it is to enter code instead of just adjusting a few settings, etc. pp I decided to spend a few hours in adding a new feature in our software. It works...

www.reef2reef.com

I will have to hop into GCC and put in my settings but it looks like they align with my testing on the cooling side. I am pretty excited about this little change actually. It clarifies a lot and makes setting controls much easier.

 

[BeanAnimal]

If I was allowed to quote the baby from 'Meet the Fockers', I would.

Hi - I am not sure why you insist on being inflammatory and insulting. It simply has no place here. My I kindly suggest using the ignore feature if you can’t control your need to attack me?

 

[ingchr1]

I will have to hop into GCC and put in my settings but it looks like they align with my testing on the cooling side. I am pretty excited about this little change actually. It clarifies a lot and makes setting controls much easier.

The one thing I wish they would implement is a reset band on the cooling and alarm setpoints. Let's say the upper setpoint is 80.0F, as soon as the temperature drops to 79.9F it clears. This results in the alarm/cooling cycling until the temperature is a hard 80.0F or 79.9F. I've seen this numerous times on my tank with a rising temperature condition. My cooling is a PropellerBreeze, so not much of an issue there. But the alarm can get annoying when it's cycling in and out. Would be much better if the reset was at least 0.2F from the setpoint.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A simple solution would be a “swinger” threshold. The term comes from burglar alarms and prevent a swinging door (say from wind) from repeatedly tripping an alarm after a certain number of triggers (timer reset or manual reset).

 

[george7523]

What is "max deviation" and "1-10v is max at deviation of" ? No Explanation.

 

[Lasse]

Nominal value = set point - as an example 26 degree C (78.8 degree F)
Alarm max deviation ± X degree = the alarm vill be activated X degree above or below the nominal value
1-10v is max at deviation of X degree = The 1-10 V signal will be at max (10 V) X degree above the nominal value. At the nominal value (and below) it will be at min (1 V). This is in use if an equipment for a stepless control is in use - like the propeller breeze

In this case deviation = aberrancy if I understand it in the right way - but English is not my first language

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ingchr1]

What is "max deviation" and "1-10v is max at deviation of" ? No Explanation.

Alarm "Max deviation +/-" is used for setting when the high and low temperature alarms come in. They are calculated:

• Low Alarm = Nominal value - (0.5*Hysteresis) - Max deviation
• High Alarm= Nominal value + (0.83*Hysteresis) + Max deviation + Cooling difference