Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

[brandon429]

I like producing the end results for throngs of angry web posters to critique. How will we have ‘rip cleans are bad’ fodder if there aren’t 6000 pages of work examples on them free for the study

 

[brandon429]

What I like most in reefing is what we are currently doing right now @philip.aasen

= installing a six jet turbo fan prop afterpics burner in an upgraded nano reef




Troy I always thought you give sincere help efforts in the challenge threads and are a regular presence in the nuisance algae forum. Nice job man.

 

[brandon429]

Work threads cause change in reefing procedures. They're valuable demonstration tools.

Peroxide in reefing wasn't welcomed by chemists nor any reef gatekeepers, its popularity and permanent- status reef tool was earned in miry work threads and in personal comms at the pet store


a blog post from JC in 2010 was where I'd first read about it. After that lots of threads starting popping up about algae fixes using it

Some didn't work

But enough worked and attributed the save to peroxide ability that the procedures became perpetuating even though the formulas on paper said h202+reef=crash

There sure were a lot of peroxide work threads afterwards, that's for sure.

Formal reefing was forced to allow it due to the groundswell but they didn't want it at first: a dangerous oxidizer was the claim

Work threads built peroxide into what it is today for reefing against a complete, total, pushback from every source other than the forum posters who drove the outcomes and updates independently.

Taking on live time jobs in web forums should be something reef influencers want to do already. There should already be a link trail in place.

Any true best practice science can endure the scrutiny and permanent outcome log of the live time work thread test.

 

[Paul B]

The only “live real time work” that you need or focused on is my fish sculpture… well your wife and then my fish sculpture.

You should have come to some of the events and art galleries where I sold them.

Jay and Randy are paid to be there and have authority in their forums

They pay me to stay off many forums because my methods (that work) are so old school that only people on Social Security will understand them.

Work threads built peroxide into what it is today for reefing against a complete, total, pushback from every source other than the forum posters who drove the outcomes and updates independently.

I never used peroxide except to gargle.

I do go on some, albeit very few work threads because of the arguments, but remember I post "many" articles or just very long "work" threads. I was interviewed 3, 4 or 5 times on YouTube.
I also have 2 reef related patents.



I spoke at 5 or 6 Reef Clubs in the US, wrote a book and many articles in paper magazines before they invented computers and dirt. It's not like I haven't contributed to the hobby. You make it sound like all I do is look at my toes all day and in reality, I only look at them for 10 or 15 minutes a day.

 

[Thales]

Work threads cause change in reefing procedures. They're valuable demonstration tools.

Peroxide in reefing wasn't welcomed by chemists nor any reef gatekeepers, its popularity and permanent- status reef tool was earned in miry work threads and in personal comms at the pet store


a blog post from JC in 2010 was where I'd first read about it. After that lots of threads starting popping up about algae fixes using it

Some didn't work

But enough worked and attributed the save to peroxide ability that the procedures became perpetuating even though the formulas on paper said h202+reef=crash

There sure were a lot of peroxide work threads afterwards, that's for sure.

Formal reefing was forced to allow it due to the groundswell but they didn't want it at first: a dangerous oxidizer was the claim

Work threads built peroxide into what it is today for reefing against a complete, total, pushback from every source other than the forum posters who drove the outcomes and updates independently.

Taking on live time jobs in web forums should be something reef influencers want to do already. There should already be a link trail in place.

Any true best practice science can endure the scrutiny and permanent outcome log of the live time work thread test.

There is no such thing as 'Formal Reefing'.
Lots of people expirement with lots of things. People rightfully squint and new things. As they are shown to be successful, more people use them. There are multitudes of 'new things' that fall by the wayside because they don't pan out. That is the same for everything, including what you are calling 'Rip Clean', which has been around forever.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would argue that Brandon has provided a bunch of good points over the years that I have referenced that could be sticked.
Cycling basics - and when to know when your tank is ready for a fish. And how Rip Cleans are a tool in your toolbox for nanos (although not the cure). However, those could be two stickies with about 5-20 concise bullet points. Not the current state of these threads.

I don't disagree - but it is all lost in a seas of madness and he wouldn't agree, because to him the "product" is the "work thread".

That is the discongruity (yes, i chose that to infer a disconnect and incongruity) through this and most of his threads. He refuses to see, accept or think outside of "work threads".

I like producing the end results for throngs of angry web posters to critique.

You have and continue to back handedly insult just about everyone in this hobby, yet I don't see anybody "angry".

On the contrary, I see a lot of people earnestly trying to communicate with you and each coming to the realization that it is absolutely pointless and not worth the effort. You don't listen, or at best simply ignore anything and everything that doesn't fit your narrative or traps you in a corner, and simply trudge on expounding about liars, laziness and work product.

You call authors lazy and peddlers of bad and unproven information. Paul answered you and you ducked him, simply pretending that you share common ground and at the same time inferring over and over that to be trusted he should do real-time work threads to prove himself. You ignored that he has already proven himself (he beat me to it above). That in itself is insulting.

I have tried to walk away from responding from this dumpster fire 3 times, but just can't because what you are doing is confusing to people who need help and a disservice to the countless people here (of all levels) trying to help them. My goodness, show some self awareness.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You should have come to some of the events and art galleries where I sold them.

Rub it in - 3 of them on one table... good grief.

 

[Paul B]

Bean those and 5 or 6 others sold but I kept the porcupine fish for myself.

 

[merkmerk73]

You could do your own work thread - why expect others?

Get a GHA infested tank, use vibrant for 6 weeks per dosing instructions, done. No more GHA problem.

Alternatively you can use algaefix or some other similar product in case you don't want Randy to get mad at you for supporting a deceitful company.

 

[Eric R.]

Because if they have to actually run a live time thread and their article-written means don't work, what then will they do with their written advice? Will it sell as well as it did before the expectation of live time performance?

nothing beats a thread that says something like "post your invasion here for the fix" and we watch the maestro work.




when the authorities are consulted for live time work, do they deliver? I dont want to see handpicked examples from an article

I want to see new jobs handled from today onward, collected in a help thread, in the nuisance algae forum. show today's best invasion management science starting rn, anyone

*link here if anyone starts such a thread.

I'm talking published authors, macna speakers etc. youtube reef influencers and insta reefer pros

instead of them crafting articles and hand-picked examples for slide show talks, why not just pick someone posting who really needs help and these sages step in to manage the issue?

is that asking too much from our reef teachers?

regular posters from our community are who show up in droves to help in the requested tank challenge threads, I've always wondered why the pros never show up for the job

we should try and find a pro who's willing to break that trend, and run for us a live time algae work thread.

Brandon, have you considered the fact that the reefing pros, the published authors and MACNA speakers, largely don’t post on forums anymore? I don’t consider instagram or YouTube reefers pros, most are relatively new to the hobby. Even professional coral farmers are pretty much absent from forums. I think there is something about the culture of forums, the fact that it’s easy to masquerade on a forum as a professional without actually having much expertise or experience, that turns off professionals from actually participating. Their well founded advice just gets drowned out by louder and more insistent voices.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Brandon, have you considered the fact that the reefing pros, the published authors and MACNA speakers, largely don’t post on forums anymore? I

He will simply respond they are too lazy or too scared to “work live outbound jobs” and should be ignored because they are useless warts on the hobby. That is whole point… as silly is it is.

 

[jimk60]

He will simply respond they are too lazy or too scared to “work live outbound jobs” and should be ignored because they are useless warts on the hobby. That is whole point… as silly is it is.

I think this thread has been pretty much beaten into submission. The choice here is obvious. If you don't like Brandons style and demeanor block him.

 

[jda]

I think this thread has been pretty much beaten into submission. The choice here is obvious. If you don't like Brandons style and demeanor block him.

It is not that easy. It sucks when your inbox fills up with people whom he led astray and now wants no part of. It kinda breaks your heart. I guess as long as it drives clicks to the site, right? ...you can have activity messing stuff up and then double-up fixing it. This site is kinda dying and many of the people who were harmed here but this dude wonder how this was allowed to happen - some of it on them since they could have seen the pushback from people who actually reef, but I get their point.

I cannot see any of his posts anymore, but I try and help people with actual knowledge having an actual reef tank for 30+ years and all. If they want to follow him, I will leave the discussion. He is a predator in it for himself. I don't know if he does this anymore, but he used to like to take threads to PM when there was any pushback like the men/boys who approach girls and tell then that they cannot tell their family or friends about their secret relationship... afraid that they will let everybody know that they are being groomed or preyed upon. Anything on the up-and-up can happen in plain view.

If you care about the hobby it is hard to see people suffer.

 

[sde1500]

I don't know if he does this anymore, but he used to like to take threads to PM when there was any pushback

He most certainly does, talks about doing just that in this thread actually lol

 

[Paul B]

Your methods may be unconventional, but they speak for themselves and I would doubt many find that you use said experience to dismiss others.

LOL, remember, my methods are not "Unconventional" . My methods are the methods we started the hobby with. All of the quarantining, medication, observation etc. is unconventional.

I have been here since the hobby started. I think it was the second Tuesday of March in 1971 at 2:00 or 2:15 in the morning.
It started in Germany a little earlier. Maybe 11:30.

We did lose a lot of fish in those days and salt water fish were very expensive and if you wanted to know anything about them, you got certified in SCUBA diving as I did and you jump in the ocean with them to learn and the fish will teach you everything you need to know.

Smart divers always dove with a knife and when people used to ask me what the knife was for, I would tell them it is for the sharks. When you see a shark, you cut your throat.



I have spent 3 or 400 hours underwater "talking" to fish. If you learned everything you know about fish by looking at fish forums, talking to LFS employees or watching David Attenbury on TV, your knowledge is severely lacking.

In all the years I dove I never saw fish hiding in PVC elbows. Well, not new ones anyway. I never saw bottled bacteria especially when bacteria is free.

I never saw a fish in the sea with ich or HLLE and no one doses copper into the sea or quarantines anything. I just find all that stuff silly, counter productive and it shortens the lifespan of the fish. I also don't want to argue about that, just yell at your computer.

 

[sde1500]

LOL, remember, my methods are not "Unconventional"

Sir your aquascape includes a hammer

 

[Paul B]

Sir your aquascape includes a hammer

That is true Sir. My reef also contained pliers, beer cans and asphalt. (still does) All that stuff is to show, or teach if you will, how silly it is when Noobs worry if they drop their nose ring, razor blade or paper clip in the tank, then the tank crashed due to diseases I never heard of and they blame that on a rusty magnet. If my hammer doesn't crash my reef which is "53" years old this week, that tiny paper clip or magnet won't either.



No, I won't put a right front fender from a Toyota Land Cruiser in my reef but only because it won't fit through my front door. Not that I feel it would harm anything. (OK, maybe that is over kill and you should go with a Fiat)

The Earth and Sea is loaded with iron and yes, copper, zinc, molybdenum and Cheerios and in a tank in large amounts, those things are "not" good, but they did not cause ich or Brooklyina whatever that is.

I once collected in the sea a very porous "rock" that weighed about 5 lbs. I kept it in a bucket of sea water all winter and forgot about it.

In the spring I decided to take a look at it and see if I wanted to put it in my reef. I removed it from the water and it fell apart. I discovered it was part of an anchor, a very old, deteriorated iron anchor.

I also noticed that in that bright red water was teeming with tiny shrimp and amphipods so how toxic could it be.

No, I didn't put it in my tank but I did add all those shrimp. That much iron would most likely kill any coral but "probably" would not hurt fish. I am guessing but I add iron in the form of rusty nails all the time. (don't do that)

Everybody with a 50 year old reef that never added rusty nails, raise your hand. Higher.
Go Scuba diving and find a rusty shipwreck. Notice that there are more corals growing there than on the surrounding rock. I wonder why.

Remember, before "everyone" complains, I did "NOT" say to do that and I don't want anyone to do that. I said I would consider my tank a success if it lasted for 50 years so I call it a success. I like to experiment so if it crashes now, I will still call it a success.

It's a hobby and everything I do is either for fun or experiment. So far I have not crashed the tank but the day is young.

There are so many threads I don't go on (even though Brandon wants me to) because I disagree with so much in this hobby that I get the horrors when I read to much. If a tank was medicated or quarantined for 2 months, I don't participate. IMO those tanks are to far gone for me and anything I advise would not work and I would not even know how to "fix" a tank like that because in my opinion, that tank will have many problems no matter what the owner does.

I realize this is totally 100% against the current "wisdom" now but remember , OK I won't say how long I have been successfully doing this (I also don't want to argue about that)

Threads of tanks full of algae which Brandon also wants me to join in on I also do not go on. The reason for that is different.

See that nice Coraline Algae? It's cyano.


I feel algae is to complicated for us to understand and all healthy reefs in the sea grow algae but many of us continually try to eliminate "all" of it. My very healthy reef has quite a bit of algae growing in it now. I feel it is healthy. So does my little pregnant bleeny.



Spawning Hector Gobies



Spawning Mandarins



Spawning Gobi's



Spawning Watchmans


Or spawning 32 year old Fireclowns



Many of my fish spawn and almost all of them die only of old age despite the iron I throw in there, the no quarantine, no observation, no medication, the cyano and all the algae. I can and do prove these things are not harmful so why would I subject myself to all the arguments from mostly Noobs who learned all they know from fish forums and don't really have a full grasp of what it takes to keep fish healthy but fall for all the hype and advertising?

It is very difficult to try to teach someone something about using simple, cheap, easy methods when there are so many fast "cures" out there that promise a healthy tank full of Naso tangs in 6 weeks as long as you add something very expensive with a pretty French Angel on the box.

 

[brandon429]

Eric,

I usually don't have argument issues in work threads they’re worth the work and time invested especially if done by private message.

99% of them are the reefer posting a set of actions and after pics of their tank with no flaming, in fact it’s usually very positive. thats what I feel is logged in the link trails for the tanks my friends and I worked on.

It wouldn’t be worth the time invested agreed for reef pros busy with business and other things to work challenge tanks, they’d have to think it’s something so fun it’s worth personal time portioning

I’ve seen you help several posters with cyano challenges I thought you seemed sincerely present in their help threads several times, thanks for posting.

 

[brandon429]

Rich

The title of my post is about live time work threads and who is missing in the ones I can find

If the inventor of taking a reef tank apart and cleaning them so they look better than before that job was done would like to post any work threads we’re accepting links. If they would make a work invite thread in the nuisance algae forum that would be even better.

Live time work beginning then completing and wrapping up is what we want to see, however someone gets there is ok.

I’m looking for an influential reef aquarist to go into the nuisance algae forum last week, and begin some work for the tracking

I bet long before I was reefing people were washing out reef tanks, agreed.

There’s still work to do for help thread makers in the nuisance algae forum.

Nuisance Algae (including bacteria)

Need help with nuisance algae, cyanobacteria, or dinoflagellates? Maybe you just need an ID of what you have in your tank? This is the section for you.

www.reef2reef.com

*nobody who amassed 20k posts on reef.org can use the too busy for web forums card heh

 

[BeanAnimal]

*nobody who amassed 20k posts on reef.org can use the too busy for web forums card heh

You just refuse to acknowledge that "outbound live work threads" are your "thing" not everyone else's. I think most of us are playing with a different deck than you.

I usually don’t have trolls wrecking work threads

Your rhetoric has ramped up significantly, I surmise that would account for the uptick in the detractors that you label "trolls". Cause and effect.

with no flaming, in fact it’s usually very positive.

Sure, all positive except your near continuous need to throw mud everyone in the hobby that has not "proven" themselves in "real time work threads". That theme is present in almost every single post you make.