Why buy live inhabitants online?

[thinktank]

Hey all,

I'm not new to the fish keeping hobby; about 10 years experience, mixed freshwater and saltwater. One thing that I have never done and cannot figure out why anyone would is buy animals online. Not because they aren't good quality or anything like that, but I can never justify the shipping cost.

So, I guess I'm curious to hear from all of you out there who do buy online, why?

I cannot justify buying a $30 fish or coral and spending the additional $30-50 in overnight shipping when I can drive 2-3 hours and go to an LFS and get it for roughly the same price, plus $10-15 in gas, maybe less.

I also ask this because I've considered starting my own coral and fish breeding in my garage and I've been told time and again that "online fish stores will bottom you out, no one can beat their prices". I also see a lot of negativity towards starting up new LFS's because of online sales. I can understand this for dry goods (food, etc.) but live animals? How? I'm just not understanding this from an economic perspective, given the shipping costs.

So...opinions? Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[tdileo]

Often it's because the LFS doesnt have the specific kind you want.. If you're looking for a rare $600 coral, do you expect your LFS to have that sitting around hoping one day somebody will buy it? And of course some people don't have a nearby LFS. I have 2 great ones 15 minutes from me but I know people that have to drive hours and that sucks. If you don't have the spare time your only choice is to order online. Usually when people order online its more than 1 animal as well.. A lot of websites have something like "spend $150 and get free shipping" so shipping price is out of the picture

 

[oscargrumete61]

Always buy locally never i have bought it nothing , like livesotck or corals online

 

[becks]

I just wish we had live aquaria and brs in the U.K.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I cannot justify buying a $30 fish or coral and spending the additional $30-50 in overnight shipping when I can drive 2-3 hours and go to an LFS and get it for roughly the same price, plus $10-15 in gas, maybe less.

If you're being thorough in your analysis, you also need to consider the depreciation on your car. When you drive the car, you wear out the oil in the engine. You wear the tires. You wear the breaks. You bring it ever closer to its periodical servicing intervals. While harder to quantify, these are real costs. Last time I calculated the cost to operate my vehicle, using straight line depreciation to zero value, the cost per mile was roughly $0.20. Gas was only $0.07 of that. Which means that the car depreciating and needing repairs costs almost twice what it costs me to fill up the car. And I drive a cheap car (a Honda Civic).

You also need to consider the value of your time. You are spending 2 - 3 hours of your life driving to a store that you will never get back. You could have used that time to relax or do something productive. That's not even considering the fact that every second that passes brings all of us closer to death. So whether it be from a monetary or philosophical standpoint, it's unwise to assume your time has no value.

$35 for shipping is a lot if you're buying one coral. If the coral is $30 and the shipping is $35, you're spending $65 for a single frag. But, if you buy multiple items, the shipping cost is less extreme. Buy 4 corals, for example, and the shipping is still only $35 at most retailers. That only increases the price per item ordered by around $9.

If you prefer buying your fish and corals in person, that's fine. You should do what is right for you and what you enjoy. This hobby is all about enjoyment, and you should get the most enjoyment possible. But for many people, the LFS is not where they buy their livestock. Not a single living thing in my tank was bought from a retail store. Everything came to my door in a box with some styrofoam and a heating pack.

People shop for livestock online for many reasons. Whether they should or they shouldn't, that's a reality of our hobby that you're going to have to grapple with if you want to go into business. This doesn't have to be a reason to not get into breeding, by the way. If you sold online, you could easily reach every person in the continental United States instead of just your local area.

 

[Eva Rose]

I feel people buy online:
As mentioned above-
1. To get harder to source species
2. Due to their geographical proximity to a reputable LFS
Also
3. To get bonded pairs
4. To get a reputable source. As many hobbyist have experienced, a good LFS will tell you if a fish is suitable for your tank. A honest LFS will question you before you purchase a challenging species.

When I first started I was told many things by some different LFS that were just untrue to make a sale. Some suggestions were made out of lack of knowledge. But some I know now were sheer dishonest statements due to greed.
So at times I have paid more money to buy fish, rather than support that store with poor practices - even if I had to wait a bit longer to buy the fish.

To me a good LFS with honest, knowledgeable staff is gold. It is a fun experience and I love to learn. But to get to good one,(where I live) I spend gas money that is the same (or more) as shipping.

I have had positive experiences and support from online vendors.

Good luck in your venture. Just wanted to share my experience so you see why some hobbyists turn to the online experience.

 

[Flameback Pair]

The number one reason I buy from OFS is timing. I know that when I'm ready for livestock there's a good chance I'll be able to get what I want online. With LFS, you have to buy when they have it in stock. Other reasons I buy from OFS include the fact I can get a large order together because there's so much to choose from online, and another reason I live in the sticks of Montana and don't have time to drive hours to a LFS.

 

[thinktank]

Thanks for all of the insight, everybody.

@tdileo I had considered the really expensive corals/fish ($300+ range) being worth the extra cost, but I guess I figured those purchases aren't all that common? Something I could reconsider if I get into the business.

@chipmunkofdoom2 Some really good points on the economic standpoint for shipping VS LFS. My first thoughts on the cost of driving and wear and tear on the vehicle is that each vehicle and person's situation is different, so as the old saying goes "Your mileage may vary".

I drive a 2013 Camry, getting 35 MPG highway. A very highly rated and reputable LFS near me is Vivid Aquarium Inc out of Canoga Park, CA. It's a 245 mile round trip for me. I figured my car to cost .09 cents per mile, also with .07 of that being gas (Camry's are practically maintenance free). So the total trip costs me $22, which is still cheaper than shipping at most OFS, but doesn't account for the 5-6 hours lost time and the fast food meal I will probably eat on the way home. So I see where you're coming from - some good points. And that's assuming there's something there worth buying. Not to mention, a shipping company will have insurance if the vehicle gets in a wreck or the animal is delivered dead. Whereas if I get in an accident, too bad, so sad.

There are other LFS's closer to me, but not as highly rated. That cost could fluctuate from $10-$25 per LFS trip. Thanks for the input!

@Eva Rose Very good points on OFS for the hard-to-find species, bonded pairs, and geographic proximity. Regarding the poor LFS advice, I have had my fair share of poor LFS experiences, like a guy who tried to sell me a Tiled Starfish after I told him my saltwater tank had only been running for 3 months - not enough time for the algae film they eat to build up. The animal would have starved and I would have been out $40.

But then again, no online fish store questions their customers or makes sure the customer is making a wise, responsible purchase, so one could say the OFS are money-hungry as well. So while you may get bad advice from a greedy LFS, an OFS can't screen their customers at all. Maybe the customer didn't read the animal's care/fact sheet on their website? Maybe they didn't do any research? There's really no way to get advice from an OFS, other than online research via their website, and any person who actually cares enough to do that research and avoid an LFS that lacks knowledge/scruples will know how to care for the animal regardless of purchasing it online or in person. So I guess it seems a bit self-defeating in that respect? I do the research myself and avoid advice from an LFS to begin with, but if I'm going to get into this business I need to understand the mind of all consumers, so your points are well taken.

Thanks!

@powers2001 Stock availability/choice is my main hangup with LFS's. You never really know what's going to be there and even if you call ahead, you can't see it, so who knows if it's the color/health/size you're really looking for? So I feel you on those points.

Thanks everybody, appreciate the feedback.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Nice to know I'm not the only one that scoffs at the $50 shipping price tag. I've only ever purchased one thing from an online vendor and that was due to having a $50 gift certificate. LiveAquaria has made it tempting when they drop their free shipping threshold to $99.

 

[GHsaltie]

I'm another that purchases mostly online due to location. I have two LFS that I absolutely love but they are each 2 hours from me, in opposite directions. I like to make a weekend trip to one or the other if I'm generally browsing and am not looking for something very specific, such as a jawbreaker mushroom that I've been on the hunt for. Otherwise I do most of my buying online. Most of my fish were online and several corals. I do prefer to buy corals in store though as I like to see the colors with my own eyes and not have to trust that a seller is representing it correctly, so that's something that I just have to use good judgement on, and I'm super crazy picky about the vendors I buy online from.

 

[thinktank]

I'm another that purchases mostly online due to location. I have two LFS that I absolutely love but they are each 2 hours from me, in opposite directions. I like to make a weekend trip to one or the other if I'm generally browsing and am not looking for something very specific, such as a jawbreaker mushroom that I've been on the hunt for. Otherwise I do most of my buying online. Most of my fish were online and several corals. I do prefer to buy corals in store though as I like to see the colors with my own eyes and not have to trust that a seller is representing it correctly, so that's something that I just have to use good judgement on, and I'm super crazy picky about the vendors I buy online from.

Just out of curiosity, which online vendors do you use?

 

[saltyhog]

If I only bought from my local LFS's in the past I would only have chromis, damsels, clowns and six line wrasse in my tank. Not to mention that SPS is pretty scarce and almost never very healthy.

Fortunately one fairly close LFS has started getting some more interesting live stock. I picked up two rock flower nemes and will pick up a terminal male Rhomboid wrasse on Sat.

 

[cumbeje]

Why do you pay shipping? Order through diver's den and shipping is free over $99. Also, i trust them first and foremost. They quarantine there fish and corals for a minimum of 30 days. LFS do not. Before you all say quarantine yourself, I do! I rather a quarantine tank just be observation tank not an actual treatment tank!! Never have gotten anything sick from diver's den. many sick fish from LFS's. Not worth the risk.

I would never also buy anything from a online seller that I did not trust like e-bay.

 

[cumbeje]

Just out of curiosity, which online vendors do you use?

live aquaria, WWcorals, battle corals

 

[thinktank]

live aquaria, WWcorals, battle corals

So, with a decent number of reputable and well-known OFS, I'm wondering how a start-up would ever even gain ground to begin with? No one is ever going to buy livestock online from a start-up...and competing against them seems like a pipe-dream.

It would be fun to set up shop in my garage and breed fish and grow coral for sale online, but until there's a reputable retailer like Amazon who brings all the sellers of livestock into one system that you order from, and each seller gains reputation through reviews like on Amazon, I'm not sure how this would be doable anymore...

 

[Bdog4u2]

When LFS start giving 2-4 week guarantee then I'll start buying more livestock from them. I buy most of my fish from divers den and have never been disappointed including expert only fish that are hard to get to eat and are eating on day one.

 

[thinktank]

When LFS start giving 2-4 week guarantee then I'll start buying more livestock from them. I buy most of my fish from divers den and have never been disappointed including expert only fish that are hard to get to eat and are eating on day one.

This is why I drive to an LFS that has a 14-day guarantee. But, not everyone has that option and not everyone wants to drive all the way back to the LFS (100 miles in my case) to return the fish.

I see the positives of OFS much better now.

 

[rstrann]

The only reason I go to my LFS is to sell them coral. The only purchases I make are online because most stores don't carry anything high end.

 

[PedroYoung]

I've had great experiences with Unique Corals too, shipping is $19, free over $200. Always stand by their stuff too. When they dropped their shipping to $19 I started ordering a lot more.

 

[Greybeard]

Buffalo, Missouri.

I'm a 45 minute drive from what most folks would call a small town (Springfield, MO) and 3 hours from KC or STL.

Still, I don't buy a lot of livestock online. I'll order what I want through a LFS in Springfield. Let them get it with a normal shipment, make sure he's in good condition, and eating, before I get out my wallet. LFS guy is doing me a service... I value that service, and I'm willing to pay for it. Cheaper than shipping? Nope... but i'm much more likely to end up with a healthy specimen this way.