What's more important or comes first when battling dinos: getting nutrients up from zero, or adding beneficial bacteria??

[Dan_P]

Out of curiosity, was the aim of the study to assess stress from nutrients on a specific species or genus or intended to investigate stress on stony corals in general? I'm curious because it seems like that would be species-specific and vary greatly depending on species. If the results weren't intended to apply to all stony corals, then it makes sense to set a recommended range like the one you mentioned as a general guideline.

Here is the study. One wild harvested coral species was studied to understand how the holobiont changed with different stressors. Agree about the degree of stress is species-specific (We might be thinking about the same studies of several coral species exposed to several saccharides). I think this paper at the time was a starting point for understanding the effect of stressors on the reef. What struck me was the nutrient stress level selected was so low compared to reef aquaria levels. Another interesting finding was that just placing the coral into an aquarium changed the holobiont and metagenomic profile within 64 hours. The implication is that by the time a wild harvested coral reaches a home aquarium, big changes to the holobiont has likely occurred. And who knows what the holobiont is like for aquacultured coral.

Metagenomic analysis of stressed coral holobionts

Rebecca Vega Thurber, 12* Dana Willner-Hall,' Beltran Rodriguez-Mueller,' Christelle Desnues, 13
Robert A. Edwards, 1456 Florent Angly, '4 Elizabeth Dinsdale,' Linda Kelly' and Forest Rohwer'
'Department of Biology, *Computational Sciences

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

@Dan_P Ill check it out! Something I recently read in a journal article relates to something you mentioned. The stability of the microbiome of the coral varies by species and genus as well. The microbiome of Acropora was found to be highly flexible and change easily and quickly compared to Pocillopora, which was found to have a very stable microbiome even when exposed to environmental stressors.

 

[Dan_P]

Ill check it out! Something I recently read in a journal article relates to something you mentioned. The stability of the microbiome of the coral varies by species and genus as well. The microbiome of Acropora

Ill check it out! Something I recently read in a journal article relates to something you mentioned. The stability of the microbiome of the coral varies by species and genus as well. The microbiome of Acropora was found to be highly flexible and change easily and quickly compared to Pocillopora, which was found to have a very stable microbiome even when exposed to environmental stressors.

Cool.

I wonder how species-specific robustness correlates with sales?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Cool.

I wonder how species-specific robustness correlates with sales?

Can you elaborate on your question? Im curious what you mean.

 

[Dan_P]

Can you elaborate on your question? Im curious what you mean.

Thinking along the lines…

Is the sales volume of a stony coral species in the hobby correlated with a low stress level?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Thinking along the lines…

Is the sales volume of a stony coral species in the hobby correlated with a low stress level?

I think there are too many variables that affect sales volume...primarily phenotypic traits like color determine sales if I had to guess. Whether the coral is aquacultured or wild is also important for a lot of people in addition to the marketing using ridiculous names. Generally speaking, I dont think the majority of hobbyists desire a coral based on how hardy it is.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

@Dan_P Or do you mean how abundantly available they are?

 

[vetteguy53081]

In my experience most important is to take away their food source which begins with light. Take away light and compete with them using bacteria - you will get ahead of this issue. Many resort to raising nutrient levels and
when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

In my experience most important is to take away their food source which begins with light. Take away light and compete with them using bacteria - you will get ahead of this issue. Many resort to raising nutrient levels and
when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

What do you mean by "biological deficiencies"? I havent heard it phrased that way before. Im a little confused which makes me curious. You instructed him not to dose nitrate or phosphate but to feed corals in order to raise nutrients for example.

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P Or do you mean how abundantly available they are?

Yeah, something more indirect like that, “because it is hardier it is more abundant/available”.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Yeah, something more indirect like that, “because it is hardier it is more abundant/available”.

I'd tend to belive it's based far more on demand that survival rate. If you took a survey of what corals are most abundant or thrive long term in people's aquariums, then yes. I would predict that the species or genera which are hardier would be more common in aquariums (if you take the number of months or years the coral has been there into consideration).

 

[PlumberDude]

In my experience most important is to take away their food source which begins with light. Take away light and compete with them using bacteria - you will get ahead of this issue. Many resort to raising nutrient levels and
when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

Vette guy, I see you have a lot of good comments when i search dinos. So i have a few questions if you dont mind.
I think am going through dinos and cyano as well, i havent looked at it under a microscope but i have the long stringy snot algae with bubbles and some purple slime.
Would you recommend turning off vodka dosing all together?
Ive also been instructed to dose phyto into the tank every day by a LFS and 72 hour lights out.
Ive got a few sticks and montis and adjusted my radions to only run blue and royal blue at 100% Still too much light?
Can they ( nuisance algaes) still survive with only blue light?
Nitrate is 9.0
Phosphate is .04

 

[vetteguy53081]

Vette guy, I see you have a lot of good comments when i search dinos. So i have a few questions if you dont mind.
I think am going through dinos and cyano as well, i havent looked at it under a microscope but i have the long stringy snot algae with bubbles and some purple slime.
Would you recommend turning off vodka dosing all together?
Ive also been instructed to dose phyto into the tank every day by a LFS and 72 hour lights out.
Ive got a few sticks and montis and adjusted my radions to only run blue and royal blue at 100% Still too much light?
Can they ( nuisance algaes) still survive with only blue light?
Nitrate is 9.0
Phosphate is .04

Stop vodka and run low blue -no white for the time period mentioned.

 

[PlumberDude]

Stop vodka and run low blue -no white for the time period mentioned.

Ok I’ll turned vodka off. Also turned of ATS lights that run opposite of display lights.
I’ll turn the blue lights down to 10%? Seems really dim to keep sps alive? and set to 6 hours.
Currently running UV 24 7 as well.
Thank you for the quick reply.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Vette guy, I see you have a lot of good comments when i search dinos. So i have a few questions if you dont mind.
I think am going through dinos and cyano as well, i havent looked at it under a microscope but i have the long stringy snot algae with bubbles and some purple slime.
Would you recommend turning off vodka dosing all together?
Ive also been instructed to dose phyto into the tank every day by a LFS and 72 hour lights out.
Ive got a few sticks and montis and adjusted my radions to only run blue and royal blue at 100% Still too much light?
Can they ( nuisance algaes) still survive with only blue light?
Nitrate is 9.0
Phosphate is .04

I’d stop organic carbon dosing with either a dino or cyano problem.

 

[ReeferA]

As I understand it, these statements are conflicting, no? Good bacteria/live rock would consume the nutrients? Should I dose nutrients first, or add bacteria first? Or both at the same time?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As I understand it, these statements are conflicting, no? Good bacteria/live rock would consume the nutrients? Should I dose nutrients first, or add bacteria first? Or both at the same time?

I'm not convinced adding typical bacteria concoctions does much for inorganic nutrients, but if it does in your tank, I'd add the nutrients first.

 

[Righteous]

I beat dinos a while back in my tank when nutrients plummeted over a vacation and they took hold.

I’m not sure how much dosing bacteria will help (I dosed prodibio just to add some diversity). But I also don’t think it would cause any problems, it’s easy enough to dose nitrate and phosphate quicker than any bacterial additives are going to consume it.

For me what worked was stopping all dosing of trace elements (or water changes), dosing nitrate and phosphate up to about 5ppm and 0.2ppm respectively (and testing and maintaining it there), running UV, fresh GAC weekly, dosing prodibio, and blowing off dinos every night before lights out along with running and changing filter socks continually (I did a lot of laundry for a couple weeks ). I didn’t adjust my lighting at all during this.

I also kept my nitrate and phosphates higher after that which has other positive effects in my opinion rather than measuring 0 and 0.

 

[rhaetuluscrenatus]

If adding Bacter 7, the dino can be come back after few weeks or months, that's what i've observed, avoid this horrible thing,
And in LED lighting tank, the percentage of having dinos is so high to compare with T5/MH tank,
in zeolite system, the chance of having dinos are so low to compare with others.

 

[dbugg]

For those who want to know my progress, the only change I made was adding the 15w UV and ghost feeding flakes. Dinos are 90% gone and starting to see some hair algae, which is good in this case I think. The ghost feeding was because I had an emerald crab die, but is serving to increase nutrients and my torches love it. I didn’t know the crab was in the tank. Again, this is a bare bottom 40g frag tank with live rock and snails only.