Bottomed out phosphates

[peterat33rpm]

Hi all.

I have a 32 gallon tank thats been running for about 5 months. nitrates and Phosphates have always run low since starting (phos had been 0.02-0.04 since I bought a Hanna checker maybe two months ago), but phos has now bottomed out. So now I’m getting some Dinos, and my hammer, torch, one of two candy canes, and GSP don’t look so happy (acan, brain, and some zoas seem ok though). Duncan changes throughout the day between looking sad and fine.

I bought Neophos to try to bump up the levels some but I’m still reading zero after 3 days. First two days I dosed maybe 2 cc’s then 3cc’s using the calculation on the bottle. This evening I dosed 6 cc, which based on the calculation should bump it like 0.05.

My understanding is that it can take some time and lots of doses to get a phos reading, but my question is would my rock and sand be absorbing this phos if I previously had readings of >0, and it was also live rock and sand to begin with. Should I just keep going slow and steady with daily reading until I get a reading?

I feed about a quarter of a cube of mysis a day split across two feedings, plus some flakes and pellets. Livestock is two clowns, bengai, firefish, flame tail blenny, 3 or 4 hermits, 6 snails, a strawberry conch, and a cleaner shrimp, all of whom are doing well.

Other stats-
Light - 30” ai blade grow set at about 75% blue 25% white
No fuge
Dosing AFR
Alk 9ish calcium 440 mag 1300
pH 8.3 last I checked but had been closer to 8 during the summer with all windows closed
Temp 80-82 depending on the day
SG 1.025

Thanks for any help

 

[Pod_01]

Phosphate in the water column stays in equilibrium with phosphate that is bound to you rock and sand. If none is bound to the rock/sand none gets unbound.
That is the main mechanism that I understand how PO4 works in reef tank.

If feeding is not bumping up your PO4, liquid sources will work.

Alternatively you can consider using Tropic Marin Phos Feed.
I use it, it is in powder form and you mix it with RO water and pour it in. The mix is bit cloudy and the idea is that it behaves like fish poop. Not sure if it is better or worse compared to the liquid but I noticed less algae compared to when I used liquid PO4. Corals look happy as well and I do measure PO4.

Good luck,

 

[peterat33rpm]

So if phosphates bottom out does that mean whatever had been bound will unbind and then get consumed? That would make sense as an explanation for why I’m still at 0 after dosing liquid phos, and just have to re-saturate the rock.

 

[Pod_01]

So if phosphates bottom out does that mean whatever had been bound will unbind and then get consumed? That would make sense as an explanation for why I’m still at 0 after dosing liquid phos, and just have to re-saturate the rock.

Yes, but based on your description you feed well and dose PO4.

Maybe re check the test just to make sure it is zero. You are not using GFO?

My understanding is that PO4 is consumed by bacteria and corals feed on the bacteria. Algae is another consumer but algae can get phosphate from the rock, something corals cannot.

 

[Reefahholic]

My understanding is that it can take some time and lots of doses to get a phos reading, but my question is would my rock and sand be absorbing this phos if I previously had readings of >0, and it was also live rock and sand to begin with. Should I just keep going slow and steady with daily reading until I get a reading?

Yes the rock and sand can bind the phosphate even if you previously had readings.

Keep dosing it up. Double the dose every time you get a zero result. Target a higher PO4 since you have Dino’s now. Like 0.1+

What kind of LR and sand was this system started with?

 

[KrisReef]

Feed more fish food and coral dust and pellets and at least your fish and coral will be able to live until the numbers come up.

 

[peterat33rpm]

Thanks all. I have increased feeding after dinos showed up.

Not running GFO as someone asked above.

Love rock was just rock from my LFS, and sand was caribsea.

 

[CHSUB]

Hanna meter has a 4% error range. So 0.0 could, if everything is done perfectly, be as high as .04. If the reading is actually undetectable the meter gives an error message. So it is more likely you are fueling your Dino problem with added inorganic po4 additions. Imo, I would stop adding stuff based on flawed parameter readings and feed your corals directly.

 

[VintageReefer]

Hi all.

I have a 32 gallon tank thats been running for about 5 months. nitrates and Phosphates have always run low since starting (phos had been 0.02-0.04 since I bought a Hanna checker maybe two months ago), but phos has now bottomed out. So now I’m getting some Dinos, and my hammer, torch, one of two candy canes, and GSP don’t look so happy (acan, brain, and some zoas seem ok though). Duncan changes throughout the day between looking sad and fine.

I bought Neophos to try to bump up the levels some but I’m still reading zero after 3 days. First two days I dosed maybe 2 cc’s then 3cc’s using the calculation on the bottle. This evening I dosed 6 cc, which based on the calculation should bump it like 0.05.

My understanding is that it can take some time and lots of doses to get a phos reading, but my question is would my rock and sand be absorbing this phos if I previously had readings of >0, and it was also live rock and sand to begin with. Should I just keep going slow and steady with daily reading until I get a reading?

I feed about a quarter of a cube of mysis a day split across two feedings, plus some flakes and pellets. Livestock is two clowns, bengai, firefish, flame tail blenny, 3 or 4 hermits, 6 snails, a strawberry conch, and a cleaner shrimp, all of whom are doing well.

Other stats-
Light - 30” ai blade grow set at about 75% blue 25% white
No fuge
Dosing AFR
Alk 9ish calcium 440 mag 1300
pH 8.3 last I checked but had been closer to 8 during the summer with all windows closed
Temp 80-82 depending on the day
SG 1.025

Thanks for any help

Maybe it’s me, maybe it’s the photo, but I don’t see anything wrong with this reef requiring corrective action

 

[peterat33rpm]

Hanna meter has a 4% error range. So 0.0 could, if everything is done perfectly, be as high as .04. If the reading is actually undetectable the meter gives an error message. So it is more likely you are fueling your Dino problem with added inorganic po4 additions. Imo, I would stop adding stuff based on flawed parameter readings and feed your corals directly.

Interesting. Does the fact that I’ve had several 0’s in a row not mean it’s probably too low?

Almost everything I’ve read about dealing with dinos at least in part involves getting phosphates to a detectable level, otherwise how do you combat them? Blackout and manual removal, and UV sterilizer? And my torch, hammer, and gsp are definitely not as happy as they had looked in the past and these are the only parameters I can find that aren’t what I want them to be. It’s frustrating.

 

[Red_Beard]

With phos, like @reefaholic mentions rock and sand will bind it, and unbind it to maintain balance. if you are chronic low, you will have to dose quite a bit because your rock and sand will soak it up until you hit the right equilibrium. In my 75 i dosed about 2 full bottles of neophos over about 2-3 months before it balanced out. Just keep an eye on your numbers, when they stop dropping and start holding steady quit dosing and keep monitoring for a few weeks. It should hit a rhythm after that.

 

[CHSUB]

Interesting. Does the fact that I’ve had several 0’s in a row not mean it’s probably too low?

Almost everything I’ve read about dealing with dinos at least in part involves getting phosphates to a detectable level, otherwise how do you combat them? Blackout and manual removal, and UV sterilizer? And my torch, hammer, and gsp are definitely not as happy as they had looked in the past and these are the only parameters I can find that aren’t what I want them to be. It’s frustrating.

I manually remove problem algae, only. Turkey baster, tooth brush, and WC, no other method is more effective, imo. Regarding torches and most corals, i have found direct feeding is incredibly effective, only in the last few years have i started feeding directly and it has made an enormous difference. I don’t believe raising inorganic nutrients limits dinoflagellate and diatoms , maybe it increases other algae to outcompete but that is trading one problem for another.

 

[peterat33rpm]

So how would you combat dinos? Is manual removal effective?

 

[CHSUB]

So how would you combat dinos? Is manual removal effective?

Yes, blow it off the rocks and suck it out. Might take months, but once your rocks are covered with coralline algae and corals it will have no real estate to grow.