What is missing? All-for-Reef vs changing water.

[Anxur]

Ho già esposto il problema, ma se vuoi posso fare i calcoli.

Supponiamo che l'acquario consumi 1 dKH di alk al giorno e che si cambi il 10% dell'acqua ogni giorno (un tasso di cambio molto elevato che finirà per essere molto costoso); la nuova acqua salata deve essere 10 dKH più alta di quella dell'acquario per aggiungere quella quantità di alk.

Se la nuova acqua salata ha una temperatura di 17-20 dKH in alcalina, è molto probabile che si verifichi una precipitazione di carbonato di calcio.

My Kh of the 50 liter TMPR salt water change is about 7.0.....
Then I add 15 ml of Nyos Alkalinity to improve 1 dkh like instruction..to get 8.0 kh minimum

 

[rtparty]

it is fine to put some things in new salt water. Alkalinity is not one of them.

Total curiosity but what would happen or what could go wrong if we added Part C into new SW?

 

[Anxur]

Sono davvero curioso, ma cosa succederebbe o cosa potrebbe andare storto se aggiungessimo la Parte C al nuovo SW?

C part, what's?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With AFR my goal is improve trace elements

I would use tropic Marin A and K for that purpose if you are using other products for alk and calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Total curiosity but what would happen or what could go wrong if we added Part C into new SW?

Depends on how much, but that may be ok, since it claims to be just seawater minus sodium chloride. I’ve never known if that is true, or if they also leave out alkalinity and maybe calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

C part, what's?

Part of the Balling system from Tropic Marin.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My Kh of the 50 liter TMPR salt water change is about 7.0.....
Then I add 15 ml of Nyos Alkalinity to improve 1 dkh like instruction..to get 8.0 kh minimum

Nothing wrong with that alk, but it won’t maintain tank alk against any significant demand.

How much do you change each day?

 

[Anxur]

Non c'è niente di sbagliato in quell'alk, ma non manterrà l'alk del serbatoio in caso di richieste significative.

Quanto cambi ogni giorno?

50 lt every 10 days with Tropic Marine Pro Reef (40 gr liters)

Tank 350 liters

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

50 lt every 10 days with Tropic Marine Pro Reef (40 gr liters)

Tank 350 liters

If you change 1/7th of the tank water every 10 days with water that is 1 dKH higher then the tank, then that water change can only offset consumption of 0.014 dKH per day, which is a nearly insignificant addition compared to typical consumption rates of 0.5 to 3 dKH per day.

 

[Anxur]

Se si cambia 1/7 dell'acqua dell'acquario ogni 10 giorni con acqua che ha un valore di 1 dKH più alto di quello dell'acquario, quel cambio d'acqua può compensare solo un consumo di 0,014 dKH al giorno, che è un'aggiunta quasi insignificante rispetto ai tipici consumi che vanno da 0,5 a 3 dKH al giorno.

Se si cambia 1/7 dell'acqua dell'acquario ogni 10 giorni con acqua che ha un valore di 1 dKH più alto di quello dell'acquario, quel cambio d'acqua può compensare solo un consumo di 0,014 dKH al giorno, che è un'aggiunta quasi insignificante rispetto ai tipici consumi che vanno da 0,5 a 3 dKH al giorno

I've ati essential plus balling two part constantly

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've ati essential plus balling two part constantly

I’m confused. Why do you want to add alkalinity to the water change then?

 

[Troylee]

I’m confused. Why do you want to add alkalinity to the water change then?

Agreed! I’d just switch salts to reef crystals or something that has a high alk already!

 

[Anxur]

I’m confused. Why do you want to add alkalinity to the water change then?

My goal is to further load the salt with trace elements above all. In order to have a compensation of fluorine, boron, potassium etc...

 

[Anxur]

I’m confused. Why do you want to add alkalinity to the water change then?

I would also have thought of buying the individual elements, boron, potassium, strontium, fluorine etc. and dosing them in the exchange water. But I have to figure out what's best... In my opinion, having each individual product is much better than dosing one that has them all together.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My goal is to further load the salt with trace elements above all. In order to have a compensation of fluorine, boron, potassium etc...

All of those mentioned can be added to it.

 

[Anxur]

All of those mentioned can be added to it.

What would you do to increase the values of trace elements (fluorine, boron, potassium, etc.) in the exchange water?

-Add All for Reef
-Add tropic A- K+
-Add Ati Single element for each elements?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What would you do to increase the values of trace elements (fluorine, boron, potassium, etc.) in the exchange water?

-Add All for Reef
-Add tropic A- K+
-Add Ati Single element for each elements?

If I knew how much I wanted, I’d add potassium individually and the others by A and K in the alk and calcium dosing solutions.

 

[Anxur]

I've just Ati Essential Plus for alkalinity and calcium..

I was trying to put elements in my water change.... For this I thought at all for reef or a-k+ or single bottles of single elements.

My goal is improve every single value of all elements..
I use tropic marin pro reef for the water change and it is already full like element value..

But...


If I have 350 liters at 370 ppm potassium...
I change 50 liters..
50 liters with Tropic Marine Pro Reef are 440 ppm potassium..

So 50 x 440 = 22.000 ppm K
In the main tank = 300 x 370 = 111000 ppm K

Total..

110000+22000= 132000 ppm divided by 350 = 380 ppm K for each liters...

It is not enough.. I want to add Potassium (example) at my 50 liter of water change.

And this situation repeat for every single elements for full sps tank..

 

[Hans-Werner]

My goal is improve every single value of all elements..

In my opinion it is not possible or at least it makes no sense for some elements.

Some elements, especially cobalt, but also manganese and iron are in so low concentrations in natural seawater and also the relevant concentrations in reef tanks that ICP-OES will not find them. The concentrations of all three transition metals are also very unstable and will drop drastically in between a few days after addition.

If you go into the Periodic Table of Elements in the Oceans (PTEO) and click on the elements mentioned above, you will find average residence times of 340, 60 and 200 to 500 years respectively and concentrations in the picomols/kg. You can go through all other relevant elements and find thousands, tenthousands or hundredthousands of years residence times and concentrations in the nanomolar ranges or higher.

This means that natural concentrations are very low and elements precipitate or are removed from the water very quickly. So it is not even clear which concentrations you can expect in reef tanks because the fluctuations for example due to water changes or additions will be very large.

For most other relevant elements it is better but some may still be below detection limits of ICP-OES. Fluorine is not detected by ICP-OES but by other methods.

The approach of control of every single relevant element is an illusion with the current technolgies.

Keeping Co, Mn and Fe above the detection limits of ICP-OES may already have adverse effects to corals or other tank inhabitants.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've just Ati Essential Plus for alkalinity and calcium..

I was trying to put elements in my water change.... For this I thought at all for reef or a-k+ or single bottles of single elements.

My goal is improve every single value of all elements..
I use tropic marin pro reef for the water change and it is already full like element value..

But...


If I have 350 liters at 370 ppm potassium...
I change 50 liters..
50 liters with Tropic Marine Pro Reef are 440 ppm potassium..

So 50 x 440 = 22.000 ppm K
In the main tank = 300 x 370 = 111000 ppm K

Total..

110000+22000= 132000 ppm divided by 350 = 380 ppm K for each liters...

It is not enough.. I want to add Potassium (example) at my 50 liter of water change.

And this situation repeat for every single elements for full sps tank..

I’ll just repeat myself once more, I would just add potassium to the tank directly. It is cheap and easy and not rapidly depleted.

I would add the frame elements to the alk and calcium additives. Lots of people do that. They may be ok in the new salt water, but I see no reason to do that.